Re: Barcelona fielding 11 players ALL from their youth ranks

by baresi Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:03 pm

Does anyone have stats of how much money the entire "youth academy" has cost Barca over the past 10 years, and how does that compare to how much money any big spenders have spent in the same period?

by baresi Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:04 pm

before anything, it is a wonderful achievement for Barca, but I don't think it is financially more effective.

by jibers Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:11 pm

baresi wrote:before anything, it is a wonderful achievement for Barca, but I don't think it is financially more effective.

THis. The oly great thing about your youthy products is the undertsanding of the culture and having thye same feeling as the fans. Ifyou can afford other players like Madrid who cares tbh? BRB Barca spend 60 mill on Ibra

by The Franchise Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:16 pm

I believe operating costs are about 5-6m a year.

by jibers Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:17 pm

The Franchise wrote:I believe operating costs are about 5-6m a year.

20 mate. Graham Hunter said twenty lol

by gondov Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:18 pm

baresi wrote:Does anyone have stats of how much money the entire "youth academy" has cost Barca over the past 10 years, and how does that compare to how much money any big spenders have spent in the same period?

I doubt its a lot compared to other top clubs. They have lost many of their youths to clubs offering more money and more playing time *cough* arsenal, cough * (e.g Hector Bellerin, Merida, Ignasi Miguel, Jon Miguel Toral Harper, Cex) , since in Spain u cant sign a pro-contract until 18 years of age. In addition, many players move on from La Masia to other teams. For instance this season Barca B had to buy 6 or 7 players just to complete their Barca B squad, due to promotions (montoya, batra, JDS, tello, muniesa) and many players being sold to smaller clubs

They may have spend more on facilities, etc, (after building a new La Masia accommodation).

Whatever they may have spend, its so insignificant to the gains from quality players like tello, busquets, pedro, messi. Its allowed Barca to be able to splash millions on single players like Ibra, villa, etc.

by Arquitecto Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:19 pm

Barcelona fielding 11 players ALL from their youth ranks - Page 2 Atletico+Madrid+v+Athletic+Bilbao+UEFA+Europa+SPipKWwaCgTl

All Euskadi. All in

by Donuts Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:21 pm

jibers wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I believe operating costs are about 5-6m a year.

20 mate. Graham Hunter said twenty lol

We make the money back selling the players we don't believe have a future.. it's not like we stack them in a basement and never see them again.

by gondov Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:23 pm

jibers wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I believe operating costs are about 5-6m a year.

20 mate. Graham Hunter said twenty lol

BS !! lol

Its about £ 8 million a year (2010-11 figures).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9393966.stm

by jibers Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:23 pm

Donuts wrote:
jibers wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I believe operating costs are about 5-6m a year.

20 mate. Graham Hunter said twenty lol
We make the money back selling the players we don't believe have a future.. it's not like we stack them in a basement and never see them again.

yea still usig youth is ovverated if you can affordf to buy the best like Madrid. Integration and not understanding the culture is the only bad side for me.

by baresi Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:24 pm

gondov wrote:
baresi wrote:Does anyone have stats of how much money the entire "youth academy" has cost Barca over the past 10 years, and how does that compare to how much money any big spenders have spent in the same period?

I doubt its a lot compared to other top clubs. They have lost many of their youths to clubs offering more money and more playing time *cough* arsenal, cough * (e.g Hector Bellerin, Merida, Ignasi Miguel, Jon Miguel Toral Harper, Cex) , since in Spain u cant sign a pro-contract until 18 years of age. In addition, many players move on from La Masia to other teams. For instance this season Barca B had to buy 6 or 7 players just to complete their Barca B squad, due to promotions (montoya, batra, JDS, tello, muniesa) and many players being sold to smaller clubs

They may have spend more on facilities, etc, (after building a new La Masia accommodation).

Whatever they may have spend, its so insignificant to the gains from quality players like tello, busquets, pedro, messi. Its allowed Barca to be able to splash millions on single players like Ibra, villa, etc.

On the other hand how many players did Barca have to sign professional contracts with just to keep them with the club instead of losing them for free? I seriously have no idea, a we have to look at all those things before we decide, plus scouts, feeding for the kids, schools if provided? etc...

Again I am all with it and if I had the choice I would definitely do the same, but not for financial reasons.

by gondov Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:29 pm

baresi wrote:
gondov wrote:
baresi wrote:Does anyone have stats of how much money the entire "youth academy" has cost Barca over the past 10 years, and how does that compare to how much money any big spenders have spent in the same period?

I doubt its a lot compared to other top clubs. They have lost many of their youths to clubs offering more money and more playing time *cough* arsenal, cough * (e.g Hector Bellerin, Merida, Ignasi Miguel, Jon Miguel Toral Harper, Cex) , since in Spain u cant sign a pro-contract until 18 years of age. In addition, many players move on from La Masia to other teams. For instance this season Barca B had to buy 6 or 7 players just to complete their Barca B squad, due to promotions (montoya, batra, JDS, tello, muniesa) and many players being sold to smaller clubs

They may have spend more on facilities, etc, (after building a new La Masia accommodation).

Whatever they may have spend, its so insignificant to the gains from quality players like tello, busquets, pedro, messi. Its allowed Barca to be able to splash millions on single players like Ibra, villa, etc.
On the other hand how many players did Barca have to sign professional contracts with just to keep them with the club instead of losing them for free? I seriously have no idea, a we have to look at all those things before we decide, plus scouts, feeding for the kids, schools if provided? etc...

Again I am all with it and if I had the choice I would definitely do the same, but not for financial reasons.

Well its about £ 8 million a year and there are definitely financial advantages to La Masia. Its not just for pride lol, and Barca aren't a poor club either!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9393966.stm

by jibers Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:31 pm

gondov wrote:
baresi wrote:
gondov wrote:

I doubt its a lot compared to other top clubs. They have lost many of their youths to clubs offering more money and more playing time *cough* arsenal, cough * (e.g Hector Bellerin, Merida, Ignasi Miguel, Jon Miguel Toral Harper, Cex) , since in Spain u cant sign a pro-contract until 18 years of age. In addition, many players move on from La Masia to other teams. For instance this season Barca B had to buy 6 or 7 players just to complete their Barca B squad, due to promotions (montoya, batra, JDS, tello, muniesa) and many players being sold to smaller clubs

They may have spend more on facilities, etc, (after building a new La Masia accommodation).

Whatever they may have spend, its so insignificant to the gains from quality players like tello, busquets, pedro, messi. Its allowed Barca to be able to splash millions on single players like Ibra, villa, etc.
On the other hand how many players did Barca have to sign professional contracts with just to keep them with the club instead of losing them for free? I seriously have no idea, a we have to look at all those things before we decide, plus scouts, feeding for the kids, schools if provided? etc...

Again I am all with it and if I had the choice I would definitely do the same, but not for financial reasons.

Well its about £ 8 million a year and there are definitely financial advantages to La Masia. Its not just for pride lol, and Barca aren't a poor club either!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9393966.stm

yes you were barca was almost bankrupt in 2003 ffs

by danyjr Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:35 pm

It is like saying why should a country grow food when they can import it from elsewhere. Many reasons:

1- Footballing philosophy: Youth academies have certain footballing philosophies in which the youngsters are trained and grown with, making transitions to the first team much easier and faster than new signings.
2- Club values: You can mould youth's personality easier than a grown man. When you look at Xavi and Puyol, they are constantly aware that they represent the image of their team. What about Pepe or Marcelo?
3- Hard financial times: Buying clubs generally tend to do well when they have the money to spend, however when money starts to run out they get into some real shit. Teams with good youth systems are always up there regardless of financial crisis or whatnot, they keep recycling and fresh while buying teams have to pay extravagant fees for signings. Fees are rising every year, world football has become more competitive and you can no longer snatch south American kids for peanuts because they can earn a good living back home.
4- Prestige: A big part of why clubs like Ajax and Barcelona have legendary status is because of their youth academy. This brings them popularity and publicity with praise from pundits around the world.
5- Efficient over the long run: Not all those players that are signed for awful amounts of money become successful. Teams with youth academies have a vast pool of talent to bring in. Even a single youth player making it to the first team every year is more than enough to have a successful squad for decades. These players don't have a huge wage and there are a lot of them, therefore a coach can use them every now and then and experiment with them. With a new multi-million signing, the coach is constantly under pressure to use the player and the player is constantly under pressure to perform. Not to mention there are only a few players you can sign every year while a healthy youth system will constantly feed the first team, from replacing injured first team players to emerging stars of the future.

by free_cat Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:37 pm

It's not the first time. We also fielded 11 home growns towards the end of the 10/11 CL semifinal vs. Madrid.

by gondov Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:48 pm

free_cat wrote:It's not the first time. We also fielded 11 home growns towards the end of the 10/11 CL semifinal vs. Madrid.

by baresi Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:49 pm

gondov wrote:
baresi wrote:
gondov wrote:

I doubt its a lot compared to other top clubs. They have lost many of their youths to clubs offering more money and more playing time *cough* arsenal, cough * (e.g Hector Bellerin, Merida, Ignasi Miguel, Jon Miguel Toral Harper, Cex) , since in Spain u cant sign a pro-contract until 18 years of age. In addition, many players move on from La Masia to other teams. For instance this season Barca B had to buy 6 or 7 players just to complete their Barca B squad, due to promotions (montoya, batra, JDS, tello, muniesa) and many players being sold to smaller clubs

They may have spend more on facilities, etc, (after building a new La Masia accommodation).

Whatever they may have spend, its so insignificant to the gains from quality players like tello, busquets, pedro, messi. Its allowed Barca to be able to splash millions on single players like Ibra, villa, etc.
On the other hand how many players did Barca have to sign professional contracts with just to keep them with the club instead of losing them for free? I seriously have no idea, a we have to look at all those things before we decide, plus scouts, feeding for the kids, schools if provided? etc...

Again I am all with it and if I had the choice I would definitely do the same, but not for financial reasons.

Well its about £ 8 million a year and there are definitely financial advantages to La Masia. Its not just for pride lol, and Barca aren't a poor club either!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9393966.stm

It says: "It costs £8 million a year to run La Masia", I am not so sure what that cover. But assuming it covers every single angle then that is 80M in the last 10 years, if we add that to what Barca paid in the market, will it be more or less than what RM spent in the last 10 years?

But as DanyJr mentioned its much more than money.

PS. Note we are talking pounds here.

by eelir Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:49 pm

It has got to be more than 8 mill honestly, as we have schools and scouts outside spain if i am not wrong. But we do sell a lot of these young prospects that have no future with the first team, so all in all it is fibacially beneficial. I mean in last 10 years we got players like Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets, Valdes, Thiago, Tello, Cuenca... Plus the ones we sold. So say the Massia costs were 100 mil in 10 years, based on what we got do you think it was worth it?

by Donuts Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:53 pm

baresi wrote:
gondov wrote:
baresi wrote:
On the other hand how many players did Barca have to sign professional contracts with just to keep them with the club instead of losing them for free? I seriously have no idea, a we have to look at all those things before we decide, plus scouts, feeding for the kids, schools if provided? etc...

Again I am all with it and if I had the choice I would definitely do the same, but not for financial reasons.

Well its about £ 8 million a year and there are definitely financial advantages to La Masia. Its not just for pride lol, and Barca aren't a poor club either!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9393966.stm
It says: "It costs £8 million a year to run La Masia", I am not so sure what that cover. But assuming it covers every single angle then that is 80M in the last 10 years, if we add that to what Barca paid in the market, will it be more or less than what RM spent in the last 10 years?

But as DanyJr mentioned its much more than money.

PS. Note we are talking pounds here.

Kaka Ronaldo alone break what la Masia could cost in 10 years, and those are just two of their players.

by danyjr Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:57 pm

Arquitecto wrote:

All Euskadi. All in

While I absolutely appreciate what Athletic Bilbao have been doing for Basque football and they deserve a lot of respect for that, your post needs a little clarification - not all of the pictured players are from Athletic's youth academy:

Llorente - Baskonia/Athletic
Amorebieta (Venezuelan) - Athletic
Martínez - Osasuna
Aurtenetxe - Athletic
Iturraspe - Baskonia/Athletic
Iraizoz - Baskonia
Muniain - Athletic
San José - Athletic/Liverpool
De Marcos - Alavés
Iraola - Athletic
Herrera - Zaragoza

by baresi Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:57 pm

eelir wrote:It has got to be more than 8 mill honestly, as we have schools and scouts outside spain if i am not wrong. But we do sell a lot of these young prospects that have no future with the first team, so all in all it is fibacially beneficial. I mean in last 10 years we got players like Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets, Valdes, Thiago, Tello, Cuenca... Plus the ones we sold. So say the Massia costs were 100 mil in 10 years, based on what we got do you think it was worth it?

Quality wise it is worth it, but to think you spent less; that I doubt. Since you also bought a fair number of players as well.

by eelir Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:02 am

Sure we do, i mean a youth academy cannot cover everything. You are bound to have some extra-ordinary generation, and some deficiencies once in a while, and then is when you go to the market. Sometimes some players want to play early like Cesc, but you cant give them contracts below 18 in spain so they leave. The good thing, is you get them a bit cheaper back.

No one is saying it is for free, it just has it advantages, and Barca at the moment is the best at this. Before it used to be Ajax, and Ajax used to rule Europe, right? SO the system has got to be good!

EDIT: How much would we spend to get the same quality players as i listed above?

by free_cat Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:05 am

baresi wrote:
eelir wrote:It has got to be more than 8 mill honestly, as we have schools and scouts outside spain if i am not wrong. But we do sell a lot of these young prospects that have no future with the first team, so all in all it is fibacially beneficial. I mean in last 10 years we got players like Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets, Valdes, Thiago, Tello, Cuenca... Plus the ones we sold. So say the Massia costs were 100 mil in 10 years, based on what we got do you think it was worth it?
Quality wise it is worth it, but to think you spent less; that I doubt. Since you also bought a fair number of players as well.

Barça closed the academy in Argentina, the only one abroad paid by the club.
The cost of the Masia is 20 milions per year including Barça B in the last years, it was less several years ago. (Data from Barça's official accounts).
However, Barça B is really not part of la Masia as they already play at professional level and they are senior players.
If you don't include Barça B, it's probably around those 10 milion per year that the article says.

by eelir Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:07 am

Well again even at 200 mil is worth it to get players such as Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets, Valdes, Thiago, Tello, Cuenca + sold ones like Bojan, Yefren and co.

by jibers Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:14 am

free_cat wrote:
baresi wrote:
eelir wrote:It has got to be more than 8 mill honestly, as we have schools and scouts outside spain if i am not wrong. But we do sell a lot of these young prospects that have no future with the first team, so all in all it is fibacially beneficial. I mean in last 10 years we got players like Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets, Valdes, Thiago, Tello, Cuenca... Plus the ones we sold. So say the Massia costs were 100 mil in 10 years, based on what we got do you think it was worth it?
Quality wise it is worth it, but to think you spent less; that I doubt. Since you also bought a fair number of players as well.

Barça closed the academy in Argentina, the only one abroad paid by the club.
The cost of the Masia is 20 milions per year including Barça B in the last years, it was less several years ago. (Data from Barça's official accounts).
However, Barça B is really not part of la Masia as they already play at professional level and they are senior players.
If you don't include Barça B, it's probably around those 10 milion per year that the article says.

by free_cat Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:16 am

eelir wrote:Well again even at 200 mil is worth it to get players such as Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets, Valdes, Thiago, Tello, Cuenca + sold ones like Bojan, Yefren and co.

It definitely is worth it, however the expenditure of the last 10 years is not anywhere near 200 milion, as in the begining of the 2000's we were spending less than half what we are spending now.

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