Re: God Thread, Pt. III

[VivaStPauli]

That's my point^^

[rwo power]

Since when did God started killing people ?

God is the biggest murderer in the bible.

Move over Adam + Eve as first victims... I forgot about Sodom and Gomorrha. Two whole cities, admittedly filled with sinners. But the Flood! Killed the whole world population (good+bad alike) bar a handful of people in the Ark!

[bazinga]

Not to mention all those people who died in earthquakes and tsunamis which, as people here say, are acts of God.

[stevieg8]

And the God-ordered genocides of Ammon and Moab, which are still celebrated as great victories by Jews today.

Also there was the violent take-over of the "holy land" by the Jews after their return for exile, after which they were actually PUNISHED for not clearing out every last heathen.

Granted those were committed by humans, but their orders couldn't get anymore explicit. If we're working on modern understanding of war crimes, the NurenGodberg trials would be quite a doozy.

[Cruijf]

Guys can we stop this assumption that the Bible=God?

My biggest problem with most Atheists in this thread is that you insult or attack an aspect of Christianity and then think you've proven God doesn't exist.

Christianity is but one religion, and a religion that the only two theists in this thread aren't part of. So stop bringing up things that are irrelevant in every since of the word. We don't accept the current Bible as fact either.

[Cruijf]

Plus "he" showed himself as sadist, as "he" decreed that he thought it fun to torture women (even those who had nothing to do with the whole eating the fruit thing) by decreeing they would only bear children under heavy pain. Very nice and caring creature, this God.

Islam not once blames Eve for the sin of both her and Adam. They both sinned, and they were both equal in the sight of God.

Now stop attacking theism on the grounds of irrelevant scripture and start doing it with valid philosophical and/or logical points.

[RealGunner]

All answers tomorrow morning by me. Middle of an assignment atm

[bazinga]

Plus "he" showed himself as sadist, as "he" decreed that he thought it fun to torture women (even those who had nothing to do with the whole eating the fruit thing) by decreeing they would only bear children under heavy pain. Very nice and caring creature, this God.

Islam not once blames Eve for the sin of both her and Adam. They both sinned, and they were both equal in the sight of God.

Now stop attacking theism on the grounds of irrelevant scripture and start doing it with valid philosophical and/or logical points.

Did you read the link I put up on the previous page?

[Cruijf]

Plus "he" showed himself as sadist, as "he" decreed that he thought it fun to torture women (even those who had nothing to do with the whole eating the fruit thing) by decreeing they would only bear children under heavy pain. Very nice and caring creature, this God.

Islam not once blames Eve for the sin of both her and Adam. They both sinned, and they were both equal in the sight of God.

Now stop attacking theism on the grounds of irrelevant scripture and start doing it with valid philosophical and/or logical points.

Did you read the link I put up on the previous page?

The amputee one? Yes and it was laughably illogical in all its points. Give me a bit and I'll post my refutations to it.

[VivaStPauli]

You still skipped my question.
How is god, in any way, moral, and how does our morality in any way benefit from his teachings?

Allah isn't any better than Yahweh in that regard, so I don't care if Christians or Muslims answer me. Or Jews, for that matter.

When you assume omnipotence and omniscience, then god is responsible for every evil and catastrophe that cannot be attributed to human free will, hence god is evil. Or not as omnipotent as the holy books claim.

So this is actually two arguments:
1) God does not exist, or is evil
2) Either way, his behaviour and/or teachings do not teach us anything about morality, at all, and are not a basis for the universality of morality.

[rwo power]

Islam not once blames Eve for the sin of both her and Adam. They both sinned, and they were both equal in the sight of God.

Now stop attacking theism on the grounds of irrelevant scripture and start doing it with valid philosophical and/or logical points.

"Irrelevant scripture"? Nice! I guess about 33.39% of the World population (1) beg to differ.

And I'm only quoting "events" that are from the same book that allegedly is written by God, too. (Why should Muslims be more right than Jews or Christians? In the end all the religious stories are originally hear-say and only written down a bit later many centuries ago).

If I pose questions derived of secular evidence and logical conclusion, theists usually point to scripture, if i take the very same "divine scriptures" to point out illogicalities, then I'm being told I can't use that alleged "Word of God" either. Tsk tsk.

And by the way, for me all Bible, Torah and Qu'ran are pretty much of the same ilk - after all, (mono)theists usually point out that the God mentioned there in those Abrahamitic scriptures is all the same. (And for the Flood thing, I can even add the Sumerian texts, too, even though they are not even from a monotheistic religion, but Gilgamesh had a devastating Flood happening to him, too, an event that was written down even a while before all the Bible stuff.)

Oh, and I chose to use the Bible, as otherwise I would likely be accused to be Islamophobic or a Jew-Hater, but for strictly secular points, you might want to address Viva's or bazinga's arguments as the stuff I pointed out hasn't been sufficiently logically answered in the first place either ("it's due to God's infinite wisdom" is no answer for me as it is not bolstered in evidence, rather the opposite.)

(1) Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.html

[bazinga]

Islam not once blames Eve for the sin of both her and Adam. They both sinned, and they were both equal in the sight of God.

Now stop attacking theism on the grounds of irrelevant scripture and start doing it with valid philosophical and/or logical points.

Did you read the link I put up on the previous page?

The amputee one? Yes and it was laughably illogical in all its points. Give me a bit and I'll post my refutations to it.

Take your time, we're not going anywhere.

[rwo power]

BTW, this is just beautiful. Shows how significant mankind aka the "creation's crowning glory" actually is:

[bazinga]

Oh, and don't forget, with all that out there, God still cares that you had sex with your girlfriend before being married to her.

[rwo power]

Oh, and don't forget, with all that out there, God still cares that you had sex with your girlfriend before being married to her.

Exactly

[stevieg8]

Earlier in this thread - just a few pages ago, actually - you were discussing the definition of God as benevolent, and referred to it as the Abrahamic version. The Abrahamic God shows up in the Old Testament, New Testament AND Quran, and while the former two are considered corrupted, they are still respected by Islam - and, if I'm not mistaken, there are large sections of that text which are revisionings of the many of the events we referenced earlier.

Not to mention the fact that the other theist, RG, said earlier in this thread that he feels all Gods are different facets of the same God as He has been revealed to different cultures.

So I would say our points are very valid.

[RedOranje]

@ rwo: If you want to talk about large celestial bodies (heh) I suggest you check the SCIENCE! section.

[VivaStPauli]

@ rwo: If you want to talk about large celestial bodies (heh) I suggest you check the SCIENCE! section.

In that thread on yo mama?

[rwo power]

I did some thread surgery and now await the answer why I can't use the Bible as "proof" for God's evil killer mentality when the very same book otherwise is used to prove God's benevolence.

[TalkingReckless]

ok this might be a stupid question but i have always wondered about this, my knowledge of Christianity and Bible is pretty bad

Is Jesus considered God or Son of God? Are there one, two or three (Trinity) gods?

[Cruijf]

So I would say our points are very valid.

In China Atheists kill baby girls by burning them alive because it makes them feel good.

Have I disproven Atheism yet?

Honestly, use some common sense. And if you honestly don't understand what we're saying, then say so. But right now you're just looking like a troll.

[McLewis]

ok this might be a stupid question but i have always wondered about this, my knowledge of Christianity and Bible is pretty bad

Is Jesus considered God or Son of God? Are there one, two or three (Trinity) gods?

There are complete offshoots and sub-denominations of Christianity dedicated to basically every possible interpretation of what you're asking. Been that way for around 2000 years now.

Short answer: There really isn't a set authority on it.

[rwo power]

In China Atheists kill baby girls by burning them alive because it makes them feel good.

Have I disproven Atheism yet?

Nope. You just proved that God doesn't care.

[stevieg8]

So I would say our points are very valid.

In China Atheists kill baby girls by burning them alive because it makes them feel good.

Have I disproven Atheism yet?

Honestly, use some common sense. And if you honestly don't understand what we're saying, then say so. But right now you're just looking like a troll.

Wow, that has nothing to do with what I said. You asked us to show how God has killed people, so we did. Then you said "oh that's not MY God, you should use a different source," so I showed how that was a fallacious side-step. I'm not sure how YOU'RE allowed to call ME out for trolling after that post.

[stevieg8]

Here, I even organized the sequence of posts so you could understand, since clearly my points went well over your head.

RG: Since when did God started killing people ?

And the God-ordered genocides of Ammon and Moab, which are still celebrated as great victories by Jews today.

Also there was the violent take-over of the "holy land" by the Jews after their return for exile, after which they were actually PUNISHED for not clearing out every last heathen.

Granted those were committed by humans, but their orders couldn't get anymore explicit. If we're working on modern understanding of war crimes, the NurenGodberg trials would be quite a doozy.

Guys can we stop this assumption that the Bible=God?

My biggest problem with most Atheists in this thread is that you insult or attack an aspect of Christianity and then think you've proven God doesn't exist.

Christianity is but one religion, and a religion that the only two theists in this thread aren't part of. So stop bringing up things that are irrelevant in every since of the word. We don't accept the current Bible as fact either.

Earlier in this thread - just a few pages ago, actually - you were discussing the definition of God as benevolent, and referred to it as the Abrahamic version. The Abrahamic God shows up in the Old Testament, New Testament AND Quran, and while the former two are considered corrupted, they are still respected by Islam - and, if I'm not mistaken, there are large sections of that text which are revisionings of the many of the events we referenced earlier.

Not to mention the fact that the other theist, RG, said earlier in this thread that he feels all Gods are different facets of the same God as He has been revealed to different cultures.

So I would say our points are very valid.

Does that make more sense and look less like trolling? I tried to make it as simple as possible for you, since you seem to be searching for any reason to not reply to the actual content of my posts.

[Cruijf]

Wow, that has nothing to do with what I said.

It has everything to do with what you said. Using an event that isn't even recognized by approximately 100% of the Theist population of this thread to prove God is evil is kind of ridiculous, no?

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