The January Transfer Window 2013

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Welcome back IcyS and Poolsupporter. Great to have you guys back.

On another note, sadly it seems Rodgers has complete other ideas on which types of players we need this winter than most of us.

Cause you didn't send the mail you were supposed to

RedOranje wrote:Depth/goal scoring options from wide areas? Doesn't seem so different to me.

I was thinking something along the lines of players with world class potential. Really can't say that about Sturridge or Ince.

Fahim89 wrote:

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Welcome back IcyS and Poolsupporter. Great to have you guys back.

On another note, sadly it seems Rodgers has complete other ideas on which types of players we need this winter than most of us.

Cause you didn't send the mail you were supposed to

I did. I guess Pukki just didn't a have a cool enough name to play for us.

I think there are plenty that would argue both Ince and Sturridge have bags of potential. Sturridge also has baggage, but that's well known.

Well, at least the pair aren't crazy expensive and both are young. They should be better value for money than some of our recent signings, but we just have to hope that they have got the needed quality, too. If in a year from now we are in a situation where Sturridge, for example, has become dead wood and we are trying to sell him on for a few millions to get him off the wage bill, that will be so depressing, because we have had more than our fair share of that in the past few years.

I think Liverpool should stop signing average British players. I'm sure there's cheaper foreign players who offer more than Sturridge.

Yohan Modric wrote:I think Liverpool should stop signing average British players. I'm sure there's cheaper foreign players who offer more than Sturridge.

Could be, hard to say, plus availability is an issue in the January window.

But I admit that it's been a little annoying to see other clubs pull off successful bargains like Cisse, Ba, Benteke, Michu while we've been overpaying for less influential players.

Comolli has insisted that Ince was “never released” and that the club made several attempts to keep the player.

“When I arrived (at Liverpool in November 2010) Tom was at the end of his contract,” Comolli explained to talkSPORT radio.

“One of the first things I did was meet him and his dad, and Paul was concerned the style of play (under Roy Hodgson) was not suited to his son, who was a quick winger.”

“When Roy went I think we made four or five contract offers to Tom which he kept turning down…he didn’t feel it was the right place for him to stay.

“The last offer would have made him the highest-earning player beneath the first team but to be fair to him I don’t think money was the issue.

“We never released him. You don’t release a player like this, you can’t force him to stay. I am very pleased that he is doing well. If they buy him back, good for him and good for Liverpool.”

There's some light on Ince. . . for many who questioned. . .

Yohan Modric wrote:I think Liverpool should stop signing average British players. I'm sure there's cheaper foreign players who offer more than Sturridge.

These comments always intrigue me. Tell me, how many LFC games have you watched since 2010?

When Rafa was in charged the club was criticised (generally by those outside the fanbase) for not buying/playing enough English talent. Since his departure the club has been repeatedly criticised (again, mostly by those outside the fanbase) for buying English players.

Is this a media driven thing, or just general stereotypes and fickleness coming into play?

Liverpool agree deal to keep Raheem Sterling at Anfield for five years

That's it then one resolved!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/19/liverpool-raheem-sterling-anfield?CMP=twt_gu

Liverpool hit snag over Sturridge after resolving to slash agents' fees

ahh no not another snag case

Interestingly this article links us with Kevin Gameiro if Sturridge falls through!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/19/liverpool-daniel-sturridge-thomas-ince?CMP=twt_gu

Gameiro on loan though, not a permanent deal, right?

This should be a good indication of where Sturridge's head is at with this move. If he really is interested in coming to Anfield and turning a corner in terms of working for the team rather than himself, he'll move quickly to sort out his agents' issues. If he doesn't there may be cause for legitimate concern.

It's also worth noting that other papers are reporting that the issues with the Sturridge deal are between CHELSEA and Sturridge's representatives, as well as/rather than Liverpool.

Really not a fan of Sturridge. =\

Neither am I pooi, but it seems like he's on top of Rodgers' list.

I would take anybody right about now over him. Bony, Mertens, Remy, Gameiro, Walcott, Callejon, and whoever else we've been linked with. But if he does come I guess we'll all have to jump on the bandwagon and hope for his success here, which is exactly what I'm going to do.

Hoping negotiations break down. We can get better players for him at a very similiar price.
__

Bony is too good for the Eredivisie. Well above the likes of Tadic, Chadli, Strootman, Mertens and Babel who I also rate highly. (I still rate Ryan. :coffee)

We should be looking at Wilfried. Reminds me of Dider Drogba but he also has Falcao traits. Interestingly enough he used to play for our academy. Yet another player to leave for first team football and to become a success elsewhere.

I don't get the sudden love for Bony. Then again, I never understand why people get so excited over players that have only impressed for a single season or so in a weak league.

He's not a wide forward at all, nor is he the type that would suit our current system. Not sure why you're comparing him to wide forwards or suggesting we should pursue him in place of them.

By the way, his stint with us was a trial in 2007 and we didn't offer him a contract of any kind.

RedOranje wrote:Gameiro on loan though, not a permanent deal, right?

This should be a good indication of where Sturridge's head is at with this move. If he really is interested in coming to Anfield and turning a corner in terms of working for the team rather than himself, he'll move quickly to sort out his agents' issues. If he doesn't there may be cause for legitimate concern.

Yep Gameiro on loan. . . Also agree that this would be a good indicator of Sturridge's mentality.

RedO players do get better and wiser as they age. Bony at the time of his trial was 19 and he has improved leaps and bounds in that time frame. I've only seen him play once against Ajax (and some youtube videos) but he looked really good in that game and in the videos. Really wouldn't mind him over Sturridge.

I've seen single matches and youtube videos where Sturridge looked very good as well... and in the PL.

Please don't tell me that on the back of such evidence you're bigging him up and bashing our transfer policy before it's even implemented? I tire of the constant efforts to find fault with the club from fans. Leave that to other clubs' supporters.

I'm not hating our transfer policy. I love nothing but buying cheaper, younger players that have an upside potential. The only thing I see wrong at the moment is that the policy is all talk. They talk, and then talk some more and then sign an average Brit.

Except that neither Sturridge nor Ince are really "average." Both are youngsters with very high potentials. As I've previously acknowledged, Sturridge does carry some baggage but you'd have to be intentionally obtuse to suggest he doesn't have obvious talent and potential.

Nor is Allen "average." And many (myself included) would argue that Henderson has a well higher than average potential if he can develop it.

Signing an "average" Brit youngster would be pursuing someone like Clattermole, Adam Johnson (whom more than a few were crying for in previous windows) and the like.

RedOranje wrote:Except that neither Sturridge nor Ince are really "average." Both are youngsters with very high potentials. As I've previously acknowledged, Sturridge does carry some baggage but you'd have to be intentionally obtuse to suggest he doesn't have obvious talent and potential.

Nor is Allen "average." And many (myself included) would argue that Henderson has a well higher than average potential if he can develop it.

Signing an "average" Brit youngster would be pursuing someone like Clattermole, Adam Johnson (whom more than a few were crying for in previous windows) and the like.

RedO you tell me how good these English players with high potential end up in recent years. Because from what I have seen they turn into nothing special. Sure they are solid players that could make it in the PL and have average-to-above-average careers. But you really think any of them will turn out to be as good as Rooney or a prime Gerrard, or a prime Lampard, Owen, etc. The answer is HELL NO. This generation, except Wilshere, the Brits don't look anything special.

We need young players with World Class potential if we ever want to make it back the summit of Europe, and we need to scout these types of players before they hit the international scene. Right now we have zero chance for youngsters like Gotze, Reus, Neymar, James Rodriguez, SES, etc because they are too good for us. We've missed our chance on them. Had we scouted SES when he was at Genoa, or James when he was at Banfield, or Reus in his early days with BMG we could've been challenging for titles right about now.

I am a huge proponent of not signing anyone, if they don't have WC potential. I wouldn't cry about it for an instance if we just keep this £18m (or whatever we're rumored to be signing Sturridge+Ince for) and put it in the bank and compile money so we can afford an actual top player or a player with top potential sometime later in one or two years.

And please don't bring up that BS about us not-being-able-to-attract-top-talent-because-we're-not-good-enough-anymore crap. That's where a top scouting team or a manager with a good eye for talent comes into play (which we do not have atm mind you).


And none of them LFC fans if I recall.

The problem is that there's no real telling who has "world class" potential because any number of youngsters could and many that seem to do not. Rebuilding is a slow process and the sooner people understand that the sooner you'll see where the club is currently and what the club is attempting to do.

It's absolute NONSENSE to say that if we'd scouted such-and-such player we'd be competing for the title right now because any number of circumstances could have seen the player A) not develop as he has at the club he's at, B) end up leaving for whatever reason, or C) not suit the team/league. Frankly, I've already addressed the new wave of criticising any English signing LFC makes and I'm not one that likes to repeat myself.

So continue on telling us all how your eye for talent is superior to that of us or the club (including a man who made his career working with youth). I'll continue to ignore and go back to avoiding the LFC section for all the bitching, I-told-you-soing, and general negative-for-the-sake-of-it posting.

You're right that it's hard to tell who's got the potential and who doesn't, but that's what top scouting teams are for. That's why we pay so much to our f*cking scouts so that they spot these types of talents.

And the scouting such-and-such players was just used as an example, I was implying that had our scouts actually been good in the recent past we could've had some actual WC players in our hands. You really think a sane scout would've pushed for us to sign Downing or Henderson when he saw that the price was £16-20m when there are other alternatives that could do the same exact thing only better.

And not a single instance have I said that my eye for talent is better than any of your guys', but at the rate our club has gone in the past couple of years I can damn surely say to you that it's superior than the bunch of idiots our club has employed in that department.

I fail to understand the discussion like "what scouts did in the past or near past" . . . For me this is a new beginning for LFC. With BR's idea of how he wants the whole team to play & progress. Their is a certain class & charisma to the way he wants to deliver. Thus he needs sets of players who suits his style. No matter what happened before good or bad or ugly is IMMATERIAL. Its now, today, its the future & its tomorrow that we need to think about.

Downing, Hendo, Cole etc. etc. lets not talk about them lets see what the plans are lets see how the plans fit in the SYSTEM. I specially emphasis on this word SYSTEM. The transfer cannot be just for the sake of it or making fans happy. We know jackshit, so there is no point saying HE IS GOOD HE IS BAD HE IS UGLY HIS WIFE IS UGLY. . .

See both the players that we have been heavily linked with have two certain very very important set of qualities PACE & GOALS. A certain criteria BR has been enforcing as VITAL for his SYSTEM. So much so, that he puts in Enrique in their who IS FAST but not a finisher. Ince & Sturridge no matter what they have done in the past or future or present or whatever, irrespective of all those are PACY & HAVE THE NAG FOR GOALS no matter what we think, THAT IS THE FACT!!

Now moving on to our policies i agree in Summer there was a failure. But people BR has just come in & its harsh to put in the HISTORICAL mistakes on his shoulders & not let one slip by. I honestly am in blind believe of the system cause i myself have seen the change in the players who are not that extremely talented but have worked the extra inch to be better.

For us fans PATIENCE is vital no other way . . . .

Can't stress what Fahim said above me enough. We need so sign players that would adapt to us, not us adapting to them.

RedOranje wrote:I don't get the sudden love for Bony. Then again, I never understand why people get so excited over players that have only impressed for a single season or so in a weak league.

He's not a wide forward at all, nor is he the type that would suit our current system. Not sure why you're comparing him to wide forwards or suggesting we should pursue him in place of them.

By the way, his stint with us was a trial in 2007 and we didn't offer him a contract of any kind.

I watch the Eredivisie more than I watch the PL nowadays and I have been largely impressed with Bony. He has tremendous talent and I am in no way saying we should sign him to play him as a wide forward. I have said time and time again that I feel Suarez is better out on the right hand side of a front 3 and I feel Bony can play that CF role for us perfectly. Bony as a CF would work, he's a tremendous worker and has an eye for a pass and most importantly he can put the ball in the back of the net. He also has that ability to drive his team on (something only Agger, Johnson, Gerrard and Suarez have in our squad at the moment) when it gets tough, which would be something we need as only Luis has it in the final third.

The Eredivisie is hardly a weak league. The amount of talent that come out of the league is one of the best in the world. The league struggles financially, so they lose some of their bigger names (likes of Robben, Luis, etc etc) but the league is definitely not weak. Ajax did extremely well in the CL considering they were put against the likes of City, Dortmund and Real Madrid and aren't even favourites for the league in my eyes. This may sound controversial but I personally rate the Eredivisie above Ligue 1...

I heard he used to play for our academy via commentator in one of his (Bony's) games, I should of looked it up before posting that, so apologies.

RedOranje wrote:Except that neither Sturridge nor Ince are really "average." Both are youngsters with very high potentials. As I've previously acknowledged, Sturridge does carry some baggage but you'd have to be intentionally obtuse to suggest he doesn't have obvious talent and potential.

Nor is Allen "average." And many (myself included) would argue that Henderson has a well higher than average potential if he can develop it.

Signing an "average" Brit youngster would be pursuing someone like Clattermole, Adam Johnson (whom more than a few were crying for in previous windows) and the like.

Adam Johnson is as good as Sturridge mate and Walcott is a lot better than the both of them. Johnson ruined his career when he went to City (anyone else think we'll be in for Sinclair considering he's been frozen out there?) for money and to sit on the bench. Sturridge isn't much younger but he's falling towards the same fate at the moment. He had a great goalscoring stint under AVB and looked promising but he's been horrible ever since AVB was sacked.

I have nothing against signing Brits. I've argued a lot with Messiah on this issue and have said a lot of times it's about signing the right player regardless of the players nationality. But I've seen nothing from Sturridge to show he's the player we need. But to be brutally honest, it's no joke that it'd be best to target players outside the PL as there's better value for money.

@ Messiah:

Wilshere isn't the only Brit for this generation...
We currently have potentially two players that could be very very good in Sterling and Allen. I'm certain if I looked into it I could find 5-10+ players that have the potentially to be very good from just PL sides.

Also, the sole scouting crew that bought Downing, Carroll etc are gone. They all left with Commolli. We still have some of the scouts since Rafa was here but the main scouts now are currently the new scouts we bought from City.

So sterling resigned. Good news