Re: Germany 4:4 Sweden - German Defense Problems

by VivaStPauli Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:54 pm

Toffer Harley wrote:but i don't get why, given there are no injuries, löw would play hummels and badstuber together. badstubers strengths clearly lie with his ability to open up play, but hummels is just as good as that. he might play high balls at dortmund all the time but he's one of the best in the world with short passes as well. there is really no reason to put two such CBs together, since only one of them will constantly build up play anyway. at the euros it was hummels 90% of the time.

that's why löw could just put an enforcer on his side, someone like boateng, who is fast - or composed, like höwedes! nevertheless, he won't do any of these things that's crystal clear. badstuber/hummels or badstuber/mister-x will be the pairing for 2014, cauz that dude has some kind of bias and it really pisses me off..

This is a critique I actually fully understand and agree with, if Badstuber keeps screwing up, there is no reason to not replace him by Hummels, instead of partnering him with him.

Yes, I know Löw wants at least one CB capable of opening play with a nice pass, and Badstuber and Hummels are both excellent at this, so he only needs one of 'em.

Hummels and Badstuber together made sense as long as they both performed well, but if they both keep having lapse after lapse, Höwedes, Mertesacker, and Boateng have to be on the table for the CB spots.

I disagree with the Badstuber bashing, but I don't see why he should be a guaranteed starter either.

by The Messiah Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:34 pm

Viva accepting defeat bit by bit. never thought that day will come.

But you never know Badstuber might prove us wrong and turn out to be legend. I mean all these managers must see something in him. that's what makes me rate him to an extent, but base on my personal assessment I think he's garbage.

by VivaStPauli Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:37 pm

Huh? I'm not accepting anything, I have said from the start that Badstuber is a lock at CB because his coach loves him. I only oppose your Badstuber bashing because that knee-jerkery is totally unwarranted, the kid played a brilliant last season, and just because he gets beaten in a match where the entire team collapses doesn't mean he's garbage.

You need to stop thinking in extremes, sometimes the things are somewhere in between, as it is with Badstuber. He can be both an excellent defender, and still not be the best choice.

He can also be really good, but still be mostly started because the coach loves him. The coach can also really love him and start him because of that, and he can still be good.

I still think it's ridiculous to put all the blame on Badstuber. He didn't play significantly worse than anyone else on that team.

by The Messiah Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:08 pm

I agree with you, I usually either over-rate or extremely under-rate, it's like the saying you either love me or you hate me, there ain't no inbetween.

Don't want to go back to the match, it's now the past but lets hope he becomes better and improve in areas where he currently lacks, it will be great for the best club in the world

by Toffer Harley Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:06 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
You need to stop thinking in extremes, sometimes the things are somewhere in between, as it is with Badstuber. He can be both an excellent defender, and still not be the best choice.

He can also be really good, but still be mostly started because the coach loves him. The coach can also really love him and start him because of that, and he can still be good.

I still think it's ridiculous to put all the blame on Badstuber. He didn't play significantly worse than anyone else on that team.

ofc it's extreme, i try to be as objective as i can but with badstuber that's impossible. it starts with his stupid face, goes over his kate moss physique and to the shit he pulled in the past. what rooney etc. did with him when bayern played in manchester was one of the worst displays of defending that i've seen on that level. eventho he played as a fullback, that stuff is just unforgettable. at the euros i was only able to accept him, but i will never see that guy as a trustworthy option unless he pulls countless stellar performances against the likes of barcelona etc...

even though he might just be 23 - if löw wants to win something now, he needs to make a choice and look at the composition of the team. hummels is a future legend, easily the best german CB in the last decade and badstuber is too much like him. it could be that he'll have a good career, but there are others out there who are good players and have been warming their country's bench cauz they just didn't fit in at the time. he's just unfourtunate to be part of the same generation as him i guess. so freakin jogi, come to your senses and give hummels a goon that can provide cover for him.

plan-B can only be to lock badstuber in a room with ronnie coleman and usain bolt for some private training.

by Toffer Harley Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:14 pm

if....in 2014:

Germany 4:4 Sweden - German Defense Problems - Page 3 31456

vs.

we're screwed.

by VivaStPauli Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:16 pm

While I still want to defend Badstuber, I really want to see Hummels and Höwedes given a try together.

by urbaNRoots Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:21 pm

Toffer Harley wrote:ofc it's extreme, i try to be as objective as i can but with badstuber that's impossible. it starts with his stupid face, goes over his kate moss physique and to the shit he pulled in the past. what rooney etc. did with him when bayern played in manchester was one of the worst displays of defending that i've seen on that level. eventho he played as a fullback, that stuff is just unforgettable. at the euros i was only able to accept him, but i will never see that guy as a trustworthy option unless he pulls countless stellar performances against the likes of barcelona etc...

even though he might just be 23 - if löw wants to win something now, he needs to make a choice and look at the composition of the team. hummels is a future legend, easily the best german CB in the last decade and badstuber is too much like him. it could be that he'll have a good career, but there are others out there who are good players and have been warming their country's bench cauz they just didn't fit in at the time. he's just unfourtunate to be part of the same generation as him i guess. so freakin jogi, come to your senses and give hummels a goon that can provide cover for him.

by The Messiah Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:46 pm

Badstuber is the best CB in the universe, explanation is not needed. There is no one single CB that can pass as much as him, at 19 he was already playing champions league final and the world cup, can anyone from HSV top that? can anyone from Dortmund top that, has Hummels ever played in CPL final..? No

Lol.. Is time to protect him, enough is enough

by Babun Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:51 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:While I still want to defend Badstuber, I really want to see Hummels and Höwedes given a try together.

Hummels+Höwedes = HH
You know what it means :coffee:

by VivaStPauli Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:52 pm

The rise of fascism? Shocked

by Babun Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:52 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:The rise of fascism?

?
Hamburg Hansa :coffee:

by The Messiah Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:53 pm

Babun wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:While I still want to defend Badstuber, I really want to see Hummels and Höwedes given a try together.
Hummels+Höwedes = HH
You know what it means

If Howedes and Hummels were that Good, they should have at least played in Champions league final by now, Badstuber has been doing that since he was 19, a feature no recent Madrid player has attained, Ramos, Pepe, etc

Tactically Badstuber is ahead of all those CB, incuding Pepe and Ramos.

by Toffer Harley Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:56 pm

The Messiah wrote:Badstuber is the best CB in the universe, explanation is
not needed. There is no one single CB that can pass as much as him, at 19 he was already playing champions league final and
the world, can anyone from HSV top that?

Lol.. Is time to protect him, enough is enough

for your future add eruptions you can save yourself the HSV talk. we're shite, tell me something i don't already know.

by The Messiah Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:58 pm

I'm biased, just like Low and a the manager that always pick Badstuber there is not shame to that...

by Toffer Harley Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:00 pm

The Messiah wrote:
Babun wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:While I still want to defend Badstuber, I really want to see Hummels and Höwedes given a try together.
Hummels+Höwedes = HH
You know what it means

If Howedes and Hummels were that Good, they should have at least played in Champions league final by now, Badstuber has been doing that since he was 19, a feature no recent Madrid player has attained, Ramos, Pepe, etc

Tactically Badstuber is ahead of all those CB, incuding Pepe and Ramos.

he was 21.

by VivaStPauli Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:12 pm

The Messiah wrote:
Babun wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:While I still want to defend Badstuber, I really want to see Hummels and Höwedes given a try together.
Hummels+Höwedes = HH
You know what it means

If Howedes and Hummels were that Good, they should have at least played in Champions league final by now, Badstuber has been doing that since he was 19, a feature no recent Madrid player has attained, Ramos, Pepe, etc

Tactically Badstuber is ahead of all those CB, incuding Pepe and Ramos.

Yes because there are no world class players in teams that aren't world class. :facepalm:

Höwedes reached the Semis with a not-so-great squad, and is the captain of one of Bundesligas top teams.
Hummels, well, there is nothing else to be said about Hummels that others haven't already.

And Höwedes isn't just tactically astute, he's also fast as hell.

by urbaNRoots Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:06 pm

Mertesacker - Hummels > Höwedes - Hummels

In my humble and respectful opinion. No disrespect to Benedikt but he has to cement a first-team place as a CB at Schalke 04 first. Most of the time he plays as a right-back there.

Besides Mertesacker has done nothing to merit a drop from the first team.

by VivaStPauli Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:11 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Mertesacker - Hummels > Höwedes - Hummels

In my humble and respectful opinion. No disrespect to Benedikt but he has to cement a first-team place as a CB at Schalke 04 first. Most of the time he plays as a right-back there.

Besides Mertesacker has done nothing to merit a drop from the first team.

He's the bloody captain, though.

by The Messiah Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:21 pm

It's easy the defende should remain as it is.

Boateng-Hummels-Badstuber-Lahm

by urbaNRoots Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:22 pm

I'm just saying... even Arsenal had the same problem as Germany. The past two seasons Arsenal had two similar CB's in Koscielny and Vermaelen. In paper it's a great partnership (as is Hummels - Badstuber) but in reality it's not.

Then Mertesacker broke into the first team, Arsenal suddenly has a great defensive record and Mertesacker becomes almost undroppable while Vermaelen/Koscielny (Badstuber/Hummels) rotate.

I want to see both partnerships tried though... it's time to change things.

by BAYERN_MUNICH Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:23 pm

The biggest problem of the NT is Lahm...its not Badstuber,Boateng or anyone else.
Lahm shouldn't be our captain, because he is a little shy boy, going down with the ship when he should shout and foul on the pitch if something like that against Sweden is happening.

I have no idea what those managers think when they made Lahm a captain. The only two players we have in the NT who could be a caiptain are Schweinsteiger and Khedira.

And I read many times that some of you think Neuer should be the captain m I mean wtf? Neuer is even more shy than Lahm, he would never have the eggs to shout against players like Schweinsteiger.

So for me its clearly the biggest problem in the NT AND at Bayern, Schweinsteiger should be captain, because Lahm is just a little follower who doesn't get mad when he should on the pitch.

by The Messiah Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:25 pm

3 Bayern home grown players, Lahm, Hummels and Badstuber.

Plus Boateng who also plays for Bayern

by urbaNRoots Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:27 pm

BAYERN_MUNICH wrote:The biggest problem of the NT is Lahm...its not Badstuber,Boateng or anyone else.
Lahm shouldn't be our captain, because he is a little shy boy, going down with the ship when he should shout and foul on the pitch if something like that against Sweden is happening.

I have no idea what those managers think when they made Lahm a captain. The only two players we have in the NT who could be a caiptain are Schweinsteiger and Khedira.

And I read many times that some of you think Neuer should be the captain m I mean wtf? Neuer is even more shy than Lahm, he would never have the eggs to shout against players like Schweinsteiger.

So for me its clearly the biggest problem in the NT AND at Bayern, Schweinsteiger should be captain, because Lahm is just a little follower who doesn't get mad when he should on the pitch.

It's a good point.

When Sweden made it 4-2 there should've been a Ballack, a Kahn or an Effenberg to shout the f*ck out of players and tell them to concentrate.

by The Messiah Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:27 pm

BAYERN_MUNICH wrote:The biggest problem of the NT is Lahm...its not Badstuber,Boateng or anyone else.
Lahm shouldn't be our captain, because he is a little shy boy, going down with the ship when he should shout and foul on the pitch if something like that against Sweden is happening.

I have no idea what those managers think when they made Lahm a captain. The only two players we have in the NT who could be a caiptain are Schweinsteiger and Khedira.

And I read many times that some of you think Neuer should be the captain m I mean wtf? Neuer is even more shy than Lahm, he would never have the eggs to shout against players like Schweinsteiger.

So for me its clearly the biggest problem in the NT AND at Bayern, Schweinsteiger should be captain, because Lahm is just a little follower who doesn't get mad when he should on the pitch.

It's just one of the problem, it's not a major problem.

Neuer has balls steal, he should be captain before anyone else.

by Valkyrja Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:29 pm

Khedira should be the captain.

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