Germany 4:4 Sweden - German Defense Problems

VivaStPauli wrote:

Ganso wrote:
the hell viva

Okay, he made mistakes today. But in the half hour where EVERYONE sucked. Even Neuer made mistakes; hell, I saw Kroos and Özil misplace passes, that NEVER used to happen. I'm not rating anyone on that half hour, not individualy at least.

it's not like this is the first time he made mistakes, as far as I am concern he makes more mistake than any CB that I know of, he's the only player in bayern I seriously want out of the first team.


He never stop disappointing me, I have tried as much as I can to believe he's actually a good defender, but my assessement on him simply say's otherwise.

Look at how he cost Germany in Euro, I am not even worried about this Sweden match, if he keeps playing Germany won't win anything.



In Bayern as we can already see JH dropped in the important match against Dortmund and we won with Boateng and Dante on board and I hope it remains like that.


He's a good player to have on the bench though, I can tell which is better, him or Van Buyten, I will go with van Buyten because he at least score goals.

Most Bayern fans are losing hope on Badstuber.

Here, read this. Bayern forum.

http://www.bayernzone.com/german-football/2896-germany-v-sweden-11.html

löw has to drop his bayern bias in case of badstuber for sure. it's not like he is a complete joke, he did make a development but he is still not reliable. furthermore he is absolutely terrible in the air. how often did he try to head out a ball and fail miserably today? there is no need for a pairing like hummels/badstuber, cauz they both are playmaking CBs. further, hummels is much better at actually defending and he has a personality - which "stubsi" doesn't. the guy is a pussy and needs to be dropped for an uncompromising defender like boateng or höwedes, even mertesacker.

Schweini wrote:One of the worst defenders of all time imo

rofl dat overreaction

The ignorance in its whole greatness!

Jogi Loew should torn his coaching licence!
He is totally useless!
This thing that he did today wasn't just a tactical mistake.
He comited a crime!
The man is totally blind!
If he manages to destroy this golden generation of German youngsters it will be the "greatest" achievement on football's history.

Someone needs to show him the door & lock it when he's out!

You simply cannot start with your best CD potentially and the most reliable this season (Boateng) as a full-back!

Mertesacker is a decent player when paired with a slow CB!
If he plays as a starter in the WC 2014 along with Bad the stones will not stop laughing!

Ιf he still has any pride he should let those 3 quality youngsters (Hoewedes, Boateng, Hummels) find their way, as it was in youth days, the one that actualy won the European cup.!

Badstuber is of limited potential!
He just cannot be a starter for Bayern and the NT!
He is too "small"!

The combination Merte/Badstuber simply does not exist!
It's unacceptable a team like Greece being able to form a better pair than those two, even if the 4 of the 5 best Greek CD's (Kyriakos, Avraam, Malezas, Siovas are unavailable due to injuries!

I have spoken of these things several times, and I will never stop until this ignorant start using only Boateng, Hoewedes and Hummels as starters constantly for the 2 years remaining till the world cup!
Starting tomorrow!

Of course, those are the huge issues!
I find it completely unessecary to even mention that you just cannot draw a game which you are winning by 4-0 till the 62' min.
Not in this level, not if you're coaching Germany and not without reacting!
He is just pathetic!

I accuse him of losing the Euro 2012 cup already!
He is the the one and only responsible for this!
I don't want even to think that something similar will also happen to Brasil !

Ganso wrote:

Schweini wrote:One of the worst defenders of all time imo

rofl dat overreaction

He's right.

Certainly one of the worst I have seen playing.

after all it's good that it happened now so they can take their lessons from it and never let something like this happen again. but i think 4:3 would have also been sufficient for that...

and viva was right when he said that the whole team was going bananas in the last half an hour. but when someone plays a major *bleep* role in three goals then that's definitely noteworthy, also individually - ESPECIALLY AGAINST SWEDEN. neuer almost pulled the same shit, but it's neuer.

another thing: while germany plays some amazing football when they want to, the old german qualities seem to have disappeared. this is said a lot and everyone in a german bar will be able to give you a 30 minute monologue about this, but it is just true. in this situation you need every character you can get. someone who freaks the hell out after the second goal for the swedes and radomly starts insulting everyone around him. badstuber is prolly one of the last guys in the team to do that. he's as phlegmatic as many other people on the team, but at the same time he is one of the most replacable ones.

bottom line is tho - he's not gonna get replaced. löw will go down with him if he has to

Toffer Harley wrote:after all it's good that it happened now so they can take their lessons from it and never let something like this happen again. but i think 4:3 would have also been sufficient for that...

and viva was right when he said that the whole team was going bananas in the last half an hour. but when someone plays a major *bleep* role in three goals then that's definitely noteworthy, also individually - ESPECIALLY AGAINST SWEDEN. neuer almost pulled the same shit, but it's neuer.

another thing: while germany plays some amazing football when they want to, the old german qualities seem to have disappeared. this is said a lot and everyone in a german bar will be able to give you a 30 minute monologue about this, but it is just true. in this situation you need every character you can get. someone who freaks the hell out after the second goal for the swedes and radomly starts insulting everyone around him. badstuber is prolly one of the last guys in the team to do that. he's as phlegmatic as many other people on the team, but at the same time he is one of the most replacable ones.

bottom line is tho - he's not gonna get replaced. löw will go down with him if he has to

AND DOWN HE SHALL GO

Agreed, in situations like this we need people like Frings and Ballack, the closest to that we got left are Khedira and Schweinsteiger, and they're a good couple notches below those old dogs in terms of grit, and character.

But Neuer, Mertesacker, Lahm, Boateng, as well as Schweinsteiger also played a role in 3 or 4 of those goals conceded. They all sucked, and it shows a tremendous lack of character from our NT; but I can't understand the witch-hunt on Badstuber. He hasn't played at CB for Bayern all season, and still didn't look any worse than Mertesacker.

Edit: BTW I've written Löw off since the Euros. He's too timid. We need someone with bigger balls, like Klopp, or Hitzfeld - Löws decision to go defensive cost us the 2010 WC as well as the 2012 Euros, or at least it severely limited our chances. I want a coach who isn't scared of anything, and who instills that winner's mentality on our team.

There's a few people who I believe could do it: Hitzfeld, Klopp, Sammer, or maybe Slomka. Not that they have to be convinced to become NT coach NOW, but Löw should be replaced before 2014, IMHO, but he won't.

That being said, expect the next coach, even Kloppo, to use Badstuber as well. Too much potential to not use.

playing kroos and schweini together obviously wasn't the smartest idea with our two roadrunners at the back. but mertesacker has shown before that he is defensively sound and apart from that scene where he decided to stand 3 meters away from the dude he was ok today - and he scored a goal.

and well badstuber looks ok as a CB at Bayern. again, i'm not seeing him as the worst defender of all times. he's ok and during summer i really thought this guy could be something but after that gay behaviour during balotelli's first and today, he is back to basic for me. now he's just that wuss again. and i do think that bayern would trade him for someone better if they could, but noone is available.

also hummels is not perfect, did stupid stuff in last year's champions league etc. but still he has a much higher ceiling and was rightfully rated as one of the best CBs at the Euros. his lapse against cassano was more of a result of him overestimating himself rather than his potentially flawed ability. that won't happen again. it was also interesting to see that when the two were playing together it was aclearly visible who was the boss - hummels. and germany needs bosses now more than anything, even if they have an ego that barely fits through the door...

The Messiah wrote:

Ganso wrote:

Schweini wrote:One of the worst defenders of all time imo

rofl dat overreaction

He's right.

Certainly one of the worst I have seen playing.

Sepi of all people should remember PFK ffs. BADstuber is Beckenbauer compared to him.

Sepi is trolling lmao, can't believe people took the bait lmao.

VivaStPauli wrote:Stubsi is a lock for both Bayern and Germany first choice CB, and that's unlikely to change. The kid just doesn't make mistakes. Yes, sometimes he gets outpaced, but that's not a mistake, that just happens to a player type like him sometimes. His positioning is immaculate, his passing is worthig of a #10, it's just such a great asset to have him at CB.

Yes, he isn't a pacey CB, but that's why you partner him with a Boateng type CB; and while Hummels might seem unbeatable occasionally, he also sometimes f*cks up badly. When Badstuber gets beaten it's rarely because of an individual mistake, but mostly because the midfield lets a fast player run into plenty of space; and in those situations the CBs already have to rely on luck anyway.

That being said, this is an Alaba thread, and I hope the kid comes back strong as ever, I really love watching him play. Too bad he was born a few miles too far to the east.

the hell viva [/quote]

Daily dose of satire.

This performance isn't that bad from Badstuber, considering other terrible performance such as the one against Fc Koln.



After this match, his mentor Van Gaal abandoned him and started playing Breno when fit or Tymo as CB. Van Gaal criticised him bitterly and from what I heard he came to tears, earlier Van Gaal had said as long as he's Bayern coach Badstuber will always start because of his passing ability but since after the Koln match he dropped him and since then I lost all faith in Badstuber as a CB, along with many countless terrible display. If Van Gaal tried something and it doesn't work, just know if other manager tries it, it won't work. Just like Kroos-Schweini, also if Van Gaal tries something and it works, then it set a precedence for other managers to follow, say like converting Schweini to DM and Alaba to Left-back. Van Gaal is one of the best manager that I know, his man management, stubbornness and of course not caring about defence proved to be his biggest weakness.


With him on board, our defence lack understanding, it's difficult to form partnership with him he lacks too many attribute to compensate any defender, he put immense pressure on team-mate, having to cover his weakness.


His only strength come in passing ability and who needs a passing CB, when we already have to many good passer all round, from Alaba to Lahm, even Neuer is a good passer and of course Boateng passing are ok and Dante too.

Simply not enough grit and steel in that German team.
Gone are the days of Frings and Lehmann.

Rev wrote:Simply not enough grit and steel in that German team.
Gone are the days of Frings and Lehmann.

agreed, a destroyer type like Frings would be more than welcome.

Yeah, the closest we have to Frings/Ballack type players now is Khedira. We need him. But TBH by now half our team should have nerves of steel like that, or we'll never win anything.

Bayern have the same problem since they sold MvB btw, it's not rocket science.

The Holger Badstuber walk away
1. Bitchface
2. Bitchface & look straight at the camera
3. Bitchface & simultaneously look like you are having a deep conversation with yourself

since i just can't get enough of hating on asparagus-stubsi, i digged out balotelli's first against germany. just because his fanboys love to cite that scene to showcase how much worse hummels apparently is...



tbh this was just as bad as hummels move. the cross came in ok - but that ball was nothing special at all. i could have headed that out. what exactly was he tryin to do there besides tryin to "muscle off" balotelli with his toothpick arms? that scene is badstuber in a nutshell

Yeah they both sucked. They were horrible. Badstuber and Hummels. That's my point. I don't think that it didn't suck, but Hummels screwed up as well.

Sure, I'd love to play Sammer and Beckenbauer there as well, but we only got who we got.

Would love for Löw to give Höwedes a proper chance though.

I don't blame Hummels for that goal, if you blame Hummels then you have to blame Boateng and blame the other player who first allowed Italy got closer to our 18yard box and so on.


Badstuber saw the ball coming, he clearly saw the cross, he knew Balotelli was right behind him, he didn't even make any attempt to jump and just allowed Balotelli an easy peasy header, unbelievable.

The Measiah is only 6.2f tall but I am not a footballer but I am pretty sure I would at least jump, why? Why would the Messiah jump, because it will disorient Balotelli.

As for the 2nd goal, like I said early and have always said, Badstuber is difficult to form partnership with, look at Lahm playing Balotelli on sight, why was that, because Badstuber quickly ran forward to avoid blame. Unbelievable CB, if there is anything I can do to get him out of Bayern I will do it.


I watch all our players, I rate all our youth, from Contento to Wieser, but Badstuber can not get any rating From me. I lost faith on him since 2010, match again Koln was the final straw and after Van Gaal dropped him I knew straight away he's not worthy, if Van Gaal drops a player he previous said he will always play no matter what, as long he's fit, just know that such player is not worthy. And why is that? Because Van Gaal is one of the greatest tactician and
Know how to develop players, he's also a stubborn manager, so if he drops you, that's that. You are simply not worthy.

VivaStPauli wrote:Yeah they both sucked. They were horrible. Badstuber and Hummels. That's my point. I don't think that it didn't suck, but Hummels screwed up as well.

Sure, I'd love to play Sammer and Beckenbauer there as well, but we only got who we got.

Would love for Löw to give Höwedes a proper chance though.

but i don't get why, given there are no injuries, löw would play hummels and badstuber together. badstubers strengths clearly lie with his ability to open up play, but hummels is just as good as that. he might play high balls at dortmund all the time but he's one of the best in the world with short passes as well. there is really no reason to put two such CBs together, since only one of them will constantly build up play anyway. at the euros it was hummels 90% of the time.

that's why löw could just put an enforcer on his side, someone like boateng, who is fast - or composed, like höwedes! nevertheless, he won't do any of these things that's crystal clear. badstuber/hummels or badstuber/mister-x will be the pairing for 2014, cauz that dude has some kind of bias and it really pisses me off..

I am even more pissed of at Bayern with all the biase picking of Badstupid

Toffer Harley wrote:but i don't get why, given there are no injuries, löw would play hummels and badstuber together. badstubers strengths clearly lie with his ability to open up play, but hummels is just as good as that. he might play high balls at dortmund all the time but he's one of the best in the world with short passes as well. there is really no reason to put two such CBs together, since only one of them will constantly build up play anyway. at the euros it was hummels 90% of the time.

that's why löw could just put an enforcer on his side, someone like boateng, who is fast - or composed, like höwedes! nevertheless, he won't do any of these things that's crystal clear. badstuber/hummels or badstuber/mister-x will be the pairing for 2014, cauz that dude has some kind of bias and it really pisses me off..

This is a critique I actually fully understand and agree with, if Badstuber keeps screwing up, there is no reason to not replace him by Hummels, instead of partnering him with him.

Yes, I know Löw wants at least one CB capable of opening play with a nice pass, and Badstuber and Hummels are both excellent at this, so he only needs one of 'em.

Hummels and Badstuber together made sense as long as they both performed well, but if they both keep having lapse after lapse, Höwedes, Mertesacker, and Boateng have to be on the table for the CB spots.

I disagree with the Badstuber bashing, but I don't see why he should be a guaranteed starter either.