Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:00 am

CBarca wrote:
So JD, what is your opinion on the matter? You have started the thread but I have not yet seen your predictions.

And they do, Xaviesta...we Barca fans are so spoiled Very Happy

My prediction is that C.Ronaldo will win it, Messi will come second and the third place is a difficult toss up between Iniesta, Pirlo and Casillas.

However what I think should ideally happen is that Iniesta, Pirlo and Casillas should compete for the top three. I am tired of this extreme obsession with goal scorers year after year.

If Italy had won the Euro 2012 final, I would have given the award to Pirlo without any question. Since that didn't happen it's become much more interesting.



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Post by CBarca Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:05 am

messixaviesta wrote:
CBarca wrote:
So JD, what is your opinion on the matter? You have started the thread but I have not yet seen your predictions.

And they do, Xaviesta...we Barca fans are so spoiled Very Happy

My prediction is that C.Ronaldo will win it, Messi will come second and the third place is a difficult toss up between Iniesta, Pirlo and Casillas.

However what I think should ideally happen is that Iniesta, Pirlo and Casillas should compete for the top three. I am tired of this extreme obsession with goal scorers year after year.


JD! hmm

I am extremely interested in why you don't think both Messi nor Ronaldo deserve a top 3 spot, in particular, the line I highlighted in bold. Which can be true to some extent, but I think is not quite as influential as it seems, but I would need to hear your opinion first before I could judge that, of course.
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:50 pm

CBarca wrote:
JD! hmm

I am extremely interested in why you don't think both Messi nor Ronaldo deserve a top 3 spot, in particular, the line I highlighted in bold. Which can be true to some extent, but I think is not quite as influential as it seems, but I would need to hear your opinion first before I could judge that, of course.

I'll be glad to share that.

Actually I am not saying that neither Messi nor C.Ronaldo deserve to be in the top three. What I am more trying to emphasize is that one of Iniesta, Pirlo and Casillas should win the top player award in my book. Since I am unable to separate them I am pushing the two megastars down. If I can decide for sure who out of the three wins then I can perhaps push the others lower and bring Messi and/or C.Ronaldo back in the top three. It's basically very tight this time.

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Post by Le Samourai Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:52 pm

I will be amazed if Messi doesn't get it, but Iker is getting a nice little hype train going.
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Post by Khaled Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:26 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
CBarca wrote:
So JD, what is your opinion on the matter? You have started the thread but I have not yet seen your predictions.

And they do, Xaviesta...we Barca fans are so spoiled Very Happy

My prediction is that C.Ronaldo will win it, Messi will come second and the third place is a difficult toss up between Iniesta, Pirlo and Casillas.

However what I think should ideally happen is that Iniesta, Pirlo and Casillas should compete for the top three. I am tired of this extreme obsession with goal scorers year after year.

If Italy had won the Euro 2012 final, I would have given the award to Pirlo without any question. Since that didn't happen it's become much more interesting.



So Messi is just a top-scorer ?!
This season he was a better playmaker than Ozil, Iniesta, Xavi and Pirlo!
A better scorer than Cristiano, RVP, Ibra, Huntelaar and Gomez.

He's not a topscorer.. he's the most complete player ever, the most effective.. in 2011-12, Messi had the best individual season in football's history (as a finisher AND playmaker) !! #enoughsaid
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Post by Jonathan28 Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:40 pm

Khaled defending is just as important as scoring or playmaking, the problem is the world is obssesed with those two aspects of the game. If you don't score loads or assists loads your not worth being considered, even though those goalkeepers and defenders are the reason the goalscorers and playn
makers can do what they do. Which is why when Cannavaro won the award for 2006, I was estatic,
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Post by Le Samourai Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:14 pm

Spain assistant coach Toni Grande

"It is time for a Spanish player to win the Ballon d'Or, this is deserved," Grande told COM Radio. "I hope Xavi or Iker Casillas get it, because they have less time left to win it than Andres Iniesta.

"Sergio Ramos also deserves it, because he can mark a very big era in Spanish football."

Edit :wrong thread.
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:39 pm

Khaled wrote:So Messi is just a top-scorer ?!
This season he was a better playmaker than Ozil, Iniesta, Xavi and Pirlo!
A better scorer than Cristiano, RVP, Ibra, Huntelaar and Gomez.

He's not a topscorer.. he's the most complete player ever, the most effective.. in 2011-12, Messi had the best individual season in football's history (as a finisher AND playmaker) !! #enoughsaid

No I am not saying Messi is just a goal scorer. Instead when his virtues are talked about in the media and his case is presented it is mainly about how many goals he has scored. As for his season, we will agree to disagree on that. In my book a player cannot be said to have had a top class season if he did not win any major trophy ( world cup, Euro/Copa/other continental, UCL, a league title ). That's just my opinion and I completely understand that most people disagree.


Last edited by messixaviesta on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Khaled Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:39 pm

Jonathan28 wrote:Khaled defending is just as important as scoring or playmaking, the problem is the world is obssesed with those two aspects of the game. If you don't score loads or assists loads your not worth being considered, even though those goalkeepers and defenders are the reason the goalscorers and playn
makers can do what they do. Which is why when Cannavaro won the award for 2006, I was estatic,

True, but knowadays, there's no defender who's good enough to win the ballon d'or... Chelsea defended as a team... so did inter in 2010 (UCL big games)...

Casillas was important to Spain (i agree), but most important player who made the difference was Iniesta.. i don't think anyone could have played Iniesta role, while i do think that Reina/Valdes could have done pretty well and Spain would have won Euro2012, anyway...

Casillas or Buffon etc.. might deserve a ballon d'or for what they did throughout their career.. but, not for 2011-12...
Xavi also..

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Post by CBarca Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:42 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
CBarca wrote:
JD! hmm

I am extremely interested in why you don't think both Messi nor Ronaldo deserve a top 3 spot, in particular, the line I highlighted in bold. Which can be true to some extent, but I think is not quite as influential as it seems, but I would need to hear your opinion first before I could judge that, of course.

I'll be glad to share that.

Actually I am not saying that neither Messi nor C.Ronaldo deserve to be in the top three. What I am more trying to emphasize is that one of Iniesta, Pirlo and Casillas should win the top player award in my book. Since I am unable to separate them I am pushing the two megastars down. If I can decide for sure who out of the three wins then I can perhaps push the others lower and bring Messi and/or C.Ronaldo back in the top three. It's basically very tight this time.

Fair enough. I can't say I agree with you 100%, but I do understand your point.
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:42 pm

Jonathan28 wrote:Which is why when Cannavaro won the award for 2006, I was estatic,

Over all these years I was so tired of reading criticism of that decision that it's really nice to see at least one person other than me agreed with that decision and felt good about it.

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Post by Adit Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:42 pm

1.Ronaldo

2.Messi

3.Iniesta


Messi racked up goal scoring stats after Madrid already won the league Laughing
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Post by Khaled Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:44 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
Khaled wrote:So Messi is just a top-scorer ?!
This season he was a better playmaker than Ozil, Iniesta, Xavi and Pirlo!
A better scorer than Cristiano, RVP, Ibra, Huntelaar and Gomez.

He's not a topscorer.. he's the most complete player ever, the most effective.. in 2011-12, Messi had the best individual season in football's history (as a finisher AND playmaker) !! #enoughsaid

No I am not saying Messi is just a goal scorer. Instead when his virtues are talked about in the media and his case is presented it is mainly about how many goals he has scored. As for his season, we will agree to disagree on that. In my book a player cannot be said to have had a top class season if he did not win any major trophy ( world cup, Euro/Copa/other continental, UCL, a league title ). That's just my opinion and I completely understand that most people disagree.

I do agree with the first part.. This is why Cristiano is considered a contender for Ballon d'or (goals)... But, Messi is not just about goals (he did everything this season individually), this is why he deserves to be a contender (imo, Messi is the best by some distance).

2nd part - You said that Cristiano will win it? because he won Liga while Messi has no major trophies?
According to this logic, Why not Casillas? (Liga+Euro)
Or Iniesta (Best player at the Euro, +4 minor trophies)
Or Pirlo (Euro Final +Calcio?)
Or Torres (Topscorer at the Euro + UCL)?
etc...

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:18 pm

Khaled wrote:
2nd part - You said that Cristiano will win it? because he won Liga while Messi has no major trophies?
According to this logic, Why not Casillas? (Liga+Euro)
Or Iniesta (Best player at the Euro, +4 minor trophies)
Or Pirlo (Euro Final +Calcio?)
Or Torres (Topscorer at the Euro + UCL)?
etc...

Leave out Torres. He spent most of his time on the bench. Let's discuss the others in detail.

C.Ronaldo - La Liga title, two MOMs in Euro, his team with him as captain took world's best team all the way to penalties in semi final

Casillas - Has two major titles but being goal keeper makes it difficult and he really isn't the MVP for either team though he is still very key especially for Spain

Iniesta - Season with Barca wasn't so great. Otherwise he would be right on top now.

Pirlo - Didn't play UCL which could have been forgiven had he not lost the Euro final and that too so comprehensively

I am not discarding Messi either. These are probably the top five and it's very tight between them this year.

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Post by briarfish Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:15 pm

I could not understand the logic of some guys in this thread.

1. Ballon d'Or is a prize for the best player, not for the best team.
2. 1 vs. 1: nobody could beat Messi this year. (Even nobody in the next 10 years could do what Messi did this reason).
3. Football is a teamwork game, nobody could do anything if he plays alone. So [collective] titles should never really be an important factor to decide if a player was good or not. (Imagine if Messi plays in a club like Hertha BSC in the Bundesliga and he loves to stay at that club forever... Should he never receive the Ballon d'Or because the club will never win any big title?)

=> Messi will win Ballon d'Or this year. Anything else is absurd.
But I know some guys of France Football are out of sense.

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:04 pm

briarfish wrote:Ballon d'Or is a prize for the best player, not for the best team.

Ask yourself one question. How many of the players who have won in the last twenty or so years were actually the best players of their era?


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Post by Jonathan28 Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:53 pm

Quick question, how many times has Maradona won the Ballon D'Or? The answer to this question may make people re-evaluate their position that the award is only for the best individual.
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Post by Harmonica Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:54 pm

Jonathan28 wrote:Quick question, how many times has Maradona won the Ballon D'Or? The answer to this question may make people re-evaluate their position that the award is only for the best individual.
:facepalm: Maradona wasn't even eligible for Ballon d'Or. Laughing
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Post by Khaled Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:11 pm

briarfish wrote:I could not understand the logic of some guys in this thread.

1. Ballon d'Or is a prize for the best player, not for the best team.
2. 1 vs. 1: nobody could beat Messi this year. (Even nobody in the next 10 years could do what Messi did this reason).
3. Football is a teamwork game, nobody could do anything if he plays alone. So [collective] titles should never really be an important factor to decide if a player was good or not. (Imagine if Messi plays in a club like Hertha BSC in the Bundesliga and he loves to stay at that club forever... Should he never receive the Ballon d'Or because the club will never win any big title?)

=> Messi will win Ballon d'Or this year. Anything else is absurd.
But I know some guys of France Football are out of sense.

THIS
cheers Very Happy Thumbs up :bow: banana Chaka eco smile
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Post by billionmillion Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:18 pm

this jonathan28 guy embarrasses himself in every post he still continues posting ignoring all previous comments

messixaviesta wrote:
briarfish wrote:Ballon d'Or is a prize for the best player, not for the best team.

Ask yourself one question. How many of the players who have won in the last twenty or so years were actually the best players of their era?

time has changed, now the award is merged they vote for the best player not for the team. examples: messi in 2007 second best player scoring just 16 goals and no major titles. messi 2010 won it while others won UCL and World Cup
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Post by Harmonica Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:36 pm

Here's reference.

Denis Law 1964 Ballon d'Or
- Euro Year, Scottland didn't participate, Spain was also champions Very Happy
- No titles (Messi had 4)
- Goals 46 for club (Messi 73)

Other ones that didn't win anything major:

Matthews 1956
Müller 1970 WC year
Keegan 1978 WC year
Platini 1983 (cup)

Again it's not only about winning team trophies.
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Post by Jonathan28 Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:36 am

Sorry guys, made a mistake earlier, forgot that non europeans couldn't wint the popularity award until 1995 :facepalm:

Can I just say, adding people to the ignore list feels good.
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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:35 am

billionmillion wrote:time has changed, now the award is merged they vote for the best player not for the team. examples: messi in 2007 second best player scoring just 16 goals and no major titles. messi 2010 won it while others won UCL and World Cup

Good point. It's the merging of the award that allowed Messi to win in 2010 when in the original format he wouldn't even have made the top three. So yes going by that logic he could win again in 2012. What Fifa Ballon D'or has essentially done is retained only 33% of the voting pattern of the original Ballon D'or and the rest comes from Fifa World Player of the year. Now there is another award called 'Best player in Europe' which is fashioned very much on the lines of the original Ballon D'or. Going by the existing patterns Messi should not be winning that but if he still wins that then he will also have the Fifa Ballon D'or locked down.

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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:39 am

jiopsi wrote:Here's reference.

Denis Law 1964 Ballon d'Or
- Euro Year, Scottland didn't participate, Spain was also champions Very Happy
- No titles (Messi had 4)
- Goals 46 for club (Messi 73)

Other ones that didn't win anything major:

Matthews 1956
Müller 1970 WC year
Keegan 1978 WC year
Platini 1983 (cup)

Again it's not only about winning team trophies.

Nice list. Yes there are precedents but there are even greater number of precedents where a player who could not have been called the best player in the world won because of his major contributions to his team(s)' wonderful achievements during the year.

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Post by II Capitano Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:39 pm

I reckon it will be Ronaldo, Messi, and Pirlo (Iniesta close, but Pirlo had a better year, primarily because the former was played out of position). As I have said numerous times, this does not represent my honest opinion, but my Ballon d'Or opinion, which you have to use different logic, as has been pointed out above.
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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:43 pm

Dino Zoff on the Casillas bandwagon hmm
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