Re: "There is no reason why a top player, a big champion would want a move to Serie A ''-Wenger

by DuringTheWar Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:09 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Nah, juventus' midfield and defense are too good for them to be of equal quality than Arsenal

they still have to play a season where everyone will be expecting them as well as preparing for them, UCL etc..., but i am not afraid they have a stronger XI

Exactly, the champions league will be a big test for them, im sure iirc their manager pretty much admitted they wouldnt have done as well as they did if they had european games to deal with instead of getting week long rests.

Would you consider their midfield better than this: mvila, arteta, wilshere (or) song, arteta, wilshere (or) song, mvila, wilshere. Mvila obviously may or may not sign, but if he did and if wilshere is back then that midfield improves dramatically

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:10 pm

Cassius_Case wrote:
gunner1987 wrote:
Cassius_Case wrote:
You have decent players like RVP, Song, Vermalin, Sagna Chezny but the rest aren't up to standard for an arsenal squad. Squilacci? Jenkinson? Diaby? Rosicky (although he had a good vein of form), Santos? Ramsey? Djourou? Park chu? Shmak? Are these the type of players that are going to win you anything? Ever?.

You seem to have left quite a few players off this list, and pretty much listed our deadweight/players we are trying to sell.

You seem to have forgotten about...Wilshere, Mertesacker, Walcott, Ox, Koscielny, Arteta, Gervinho, Podolski, and 99% sure of Giroud. Almost all of these players are 1st choice international players... Not a bad squad when you include these guys, and look at our youth players that are about to have a huge impact (Colquelin, Ryo, Lansbury, etc)
Wheelchair has been injured so I didn't think it would be fair to add him but yes your right, he's another of your good players but I would say Per, Walcott and OX especially are vital for you just yet, maybe next year. But this is what I'm saying as much as kos improved he's never going to win you a title. I'm still undecided about gervinho, has potential but needs to be more involved.

I'm not saying you have a bad squad but it is weak if you are wanting to win the league anyway.

i agree with you but we are correcting the weeknesses

by Raptorgunner Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:14 pm

Cassius_Case wrote:
gunner1987 wrote:
Cassius_Case wrote:
You have decent players like RVP, Song, Vermalin, Sagna Chezny but the rest aren't up to standard for an arsenal squad. Squilacci? Jenkinson? Diaby? Rosicky (although he had a good vein of form), Santos? Ramsey? Djourou? Park chu? Shmak? Are these the type of players that are going to win you anything? Ever?.

You seem to have left quite a few players off this list, and pretty much listed our deadweight/players we are trying to sell.

You seem to have forgotten about...Wilshere, Mertesacker, Walcott, Ox, Koscielny, Arteta, Gervinho, Podolski, and 99% sure of Giroud. Almost all of these players are 1st choice international players... Not a bad squad when you include these guys, and look at our youth players that are about to have a huge impact (Colquelin, Ryo, Lansbury, etc)
Wheelchair has been injured so I didn't think it would be fair to add him but yes your right, he's another of your good players but I would say Per, Walcott and OX especially are vital for you just yet, maybe next year. But this is what I'm saying as much as kos improved he's never going to win you a title. I'm still undecided about gervinho, has potential but needs to be more involved.

I'm not saying you have a bad squad but it is weak if you are wanting to win the league anyway.

for the Past 8 years we have been unlucky not to win the league, had RVP been healthy we would have won it and I am sure of that.

You will see different Arsenal next season, we have been as ambitious as any other team so far and it looks like we will make our second and 3erd signing after France lose to Spain. eco smile

by DuringTheWar Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:15 pm

Legend wrote:

Ramsey- Everyone knows he has potential he was would have been better then Jack had it not for his injury...

Tbh i think his pre-injury form has been exagerated over time, its become a myth almost. I didnt ever think he was better than jack

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:23 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:Nah, juventus' midfield and defense are too good for them to be of equal quality than Arsenal

they still have to play a season where everyone will be expecting them as well as preparing for them, UCL etc..., but i am not afraid they have a stronger XI

Exactly, the champions league will be a big test for them, im sure iirc their manager pretty much admitted they wouldnt have done as well as they did if they had european games to deal with instead of getting week long rests.

Would you consider their midfield better than this: mvila, arteta, wilshere (or) song, arteta, wilshere (or) song, mvila, wilshere. Mvila obviously may or may not sign, but if he did and if wilshere is back then that midfield improves dramatically

I dont look at the list of names you stack in your midfield, i look at the amount of chemistry and balance you have at your disposal.

Juve's midfield is set in a way that allows the team to get the best out of Pirlo, and he is simply the best in the game atm. Along side him, he has a very active and technical Marchisio, and one of the elite box to box player in football at the moment. I think it's beautifully balanced, and it's a midfield that can beat many many teams.

On paper, Song-Mvila-wilsheer could be good, but 1) it needs to happen, 2) no evidence it will be great from day one, 3) none of your players can reach the best of pirlo

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:28 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:Nah, juventus' midfield and defense are too good for them to be of equal quality than Arsenal

they still have to play a season where everyone will be expecting them as well as preparing for them, UCL etc..., but i am not afraid they have a stronger XI

Exactly, the champions league will be a big test for them, im sure iirc their manager pretty much admitted they wouldnt have done as well as they did if they had european games to deal with instead of getting week long rests.

Would you consider their midfield better than this: mvila, arteta, wilshere (or) song, arteta, wilshere (or) song, mvila, wilshere. Mvila obviously may or may not sign, but if he did and if wilshere is back then that midfield improves dramatically
I dont look at the list of names you stack in your midfield, i look at the amount of chemistry and balance you have at your disposal.

Juve's midfield is set in a way that allows the team to get the best out of Pirlo, and he is simply the best in the game atm. Along side him, he has a very active and technical Marchisio, and one of the elite box to box player in football at the moment. I think it's beautifully balanced, and it's a midfield that can beat many many teams.

On paper, Song-Mvila-wilsheer could be good, but 1) it needs to happen, 2) no evidence it will be great from day one, 3) none of your players can reach the best of pirlo

i see your point, well see in the cl next year, simple.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:35 pm

REWB wrote:we can only call this after the summer transfer finishes, because arsenal can win the epl next year with a few more signings. if we dont sign those players then fine. but atm it looks like we are.

Call me a skeptic but I've heard the same phrase 7 years in a row now.

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:If RVP wants to go to a lesser league because it will be easier to win a title than he does not have a champion mentality. thats weak.

No, he would choose to go to a team whose ambition matches his own, unlike whee is now.

by DuringTheWar Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:39 pm

Juventus have a good midfield no doubt. But if it does happen i think song-mvila-wilshere would have a lot of potential, and a whole lot of youth on their side to grow and grow. The difference is juve's star man, the one that makes it all work is nearing the end of his career, arsenals star man has all his best years ahead of him

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:39 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
REWB wrote:we can only call this after the summer transfer finishes, because arsenal can win the epl next year with a few more signings. if we dont sign those players then fine. but atm it looks like we are.
Call me a skeptic but I've heard the same phrase 7 years in a row now.

in those past 7 years, we have been doing something....reducing our debt. we havent just been throwing the money that we have earned into the damn bin. There is going to come a point when we stop trying to reduce the debt and actually spend on players. do you really think things NEVER change? atm you have been proved wrong because we are already close to signing players, not like previous years.

by Raptorgunner Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:46 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
REWB wrote:we can only call this after the summer transfer finishes, because arsenal can win the epl next year with a few more signings. if we dont sign those players then fine. but atm it looks like we are.
Call me a skeptic but I've heard the same phrase 7 years in a row now.

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:If RVP wants to go to a lesser league because it will be easier to win a title than he does not have a champion mentality. thats weak.
No, he would choose to go to a team whose ambition matches his own, unlike whee is now.

What happened to Cesc? what did he win this year? wasn't he suppose to win everything?

RVP is the captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world it should be a honor for him to wear the armband of the team that stood by him for many years and believe in him. RVP will stay at Arsenal and we will win a major trophy with him leading us.

by Gomez83 Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:51 pm

Raptorgunner wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
REWB wrote:we can only call this after the summer transfer finishes, because arsenal can win the epl next year with a few more signings. if we dont sign those players then fine. but atm it looks like we are.
Call me a skeptic but I've heard the same phrase 7 years in a row now.

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:If RVP wants to go to a lesser league because it will be easier to win a title than he does not have a champion mentality. thats weak.
No, he would choose to go to a team whose ambition matches his own, unlike whee is now.

What happened to Cesc? what did he win this year? wasn't he suppose to win everything?

RVP is the captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world it should be a honor for him to wear the armband of the team that stood by him for many years and believe in him. RVP will stay at Arsenal and we will win a major trophy with him leading us.

Well Cesc did win 4 trophies in his first year...
And was also captain but bailed on Arsenal so the armband could not have meant that much.

by Raptorgunner Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:56 pm

Gomez83 wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
REWB wrote:we can only call this after the summer transfer finishes, because arsenal can win the epl next year with a few more signings. if we dont sign those players then fine. but atm it looks like we are.
Call me a skeptic but I've heard the same phrase 7 years in a row now.

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:If RVP wants to go to a lesser league because it will be easier to win a title than he does not have a champion mentality. thats weak.
No, he would choose to go to a team whose ambition matches his own, unlike whee is now.

What happened to Cesc? what did he win this year? wasn't he suppose to win everything?

RVP is the captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world it should be a honor for him to wear the armband of the team that stood by him for many years and believe in him. RVP will stay at Arsenal and we will win a major trophy with him leading us.

Well Cesc did win 4 trophies in his first year...
And was also captain but bailed on Arsenal so the armband could not have meant that much.

Can you tell me which 4 trophies?

by Gomez83 Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:58 pm

Raptorgunner wrote:
Gomez83 wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
REWB wrote:we can only call this after the summer transfer finishes, because arsenal can win the epl next year with a few more signings. if we dont sign those players then fine. but atm it looks like we are.
Call me a skeptic but I've heard the same phrase 7 years in a row now.

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:If RVP wants to go to a lesser league because it will be easier to win a title than he does not have a champion mentality. thats weak.
No, he would choose to go to a team whose ambition matches his own, unlike whee is now.

What happened to Cesc? what did he win this year? wasn't he suppose to win everything?

RVP is the captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world it should be a honor for him to wear the armband of the team that stood by him for many years and believe in him. RVP will stay at Arsenal and we will win a major trophy with him leading us.

Well Cesc did win 4 trophies in his first year...
And was also captain but bailed on Arsenal so the armband could not have meant that much.

Can you tell me which 4 trophies?

UEFA Super Cup
Supercopa de España
FIFA Club World Cup
Copa del Rey

by Raptorgunner Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:02 pm

Gomez83 wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
Gomez83 wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
REWB wrote:we can only call this after the summer transfer finishes, because arsenal can win the epl next year with a few more signings. if we dont sign those players then fine. but atm it looks like we are.
Call me a skeptic but I've heard the same phrase 7 years in a row now.

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:If RVP wants to go to a lesser league because it will be easier to win a title than he does not have a champion mentality. thats weak.
No, he would choose to go to a team whose ambition matches his own, unlike whee is now.

What happened to Cesc? what did he win this year? wasn't he suppose to win everything?

RVP is the captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world it should be a honor for him to wear the armband of the team that stood by him for many years and believe in him. RVP will stay at Arsenal and we will win a major trophy with him leading us.

Well Cesc did win 4 trophies in his first year...
And was also captain but bailed on Arsenal so the armband could not have meant that much.

Can you tell me which 4 trophies?

UEFA Super Cup
Supercopa de España
FIFA Club World Cup
Copa del Rey

Those are cups? really first time hearing about them, well good for him, he deserves it.

by Gomez83 Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:03 pm

Raptorgunner wrote:
Gomez83 wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
Gomez83 wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
REWB wrote:we can only call this after the summer transfer finishes, because arsenal can win the epl next year with a few more signings. if we dont sign those players then fine. but atm it looks like we are.
Call me a skeptic but I've heard the same phrase 7 years in a row now.

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:If RVP wants to go to a lesser league because it will be easier to win a title than he does not have a champion mentality. thats weak.
No, he would choose to go to a team whose ambition matches his own, unlike whee is now.

What happened to Cesc? what did he win this year? wasn't he suppose to win everything?

RVP is the captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world it should be a honor for him to wear the armband of the team that stood by him for many years and believe in him. RVP will stay at Arsenal and we will win a major trophy with him leading us.

Well Cesc did win 4 trophies in his first year...
And was also captain but bailed on Arsenal so the armband could not have meant that much.

Can you tell me which 4 trophies?

UEFA Super Cup
Supercopa de España
FIFA Club World Cup
Copa del Rey

Those are cups? really first time hearing about them, well good for him, he deserves it.

Many don't find them to be real trophies even though the contenders were:
Porto, Santos, Real Madrid, and Atletico Bilbao

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:04 pm

lol, dont be jealous mate, doesnt look good

by Gomez83 Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:04 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:lol, dont be jealous mate, doesnt look good

?

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:20 pm

Raptorgunner wrote:What happened to Cesc? what did he win this year? wasn't he suppose to win everything?

He won a Copa del Rey, more than he won in the past 5 years, right? :coffee:

And Barca are still considered contenders for the next season's league and champions league, something Arsenal are not.

Anyways I honestly don't see why so many Arsenal fans insist they have a chance at winning trophies next season. City and United will undoubtedly get stronger. What signings have Arsenal made to suggest they will match them? Podolski is class, but I see him as an RVP replacement, and even if RVP stays he's not enough. Arsenal just had one of their worse season in recent memory, with many Gunners fearing they wouldn't even make the CL for much of the season. How have they suddenly turned into world beaters?

by Luca Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:22 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Juventus have a good midfield no doubt. But if it does happen i think song-mvila-wilshere would have a lot of potential, and a whole lot of youth on their side to grow and grow. The difference is juve's star man, the one that makes it all work is nearing the end of his career, arsenals star man has all his best years ahead of him

Juventus' midfield is actually quite stacked
Especially if Pogba and Verratti both sign.
Then there is young starlets like Buoy, Marrone and Appelt.

by Gomez83 Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:25 pm

The thing is, many clubs such this year are growing at such a fast rate, Chelsea, City with massive signings.. again and Arsenal is only going in a normal pace, Arsenal are still top 10, and will contend good in UEFA, but would be lucky to be third in the league 12/13 season, expect them to finish fourth.

by Raptorgunner Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:31 pm

Gomez83 wrote:The thing is, many clubs such this year are growing at such a fast rate, Chelsea, City with massive signings.. again and Arsenal is only going in a normal pace, Arsenal are still top 10, and will contend good in UEFA, but would be lucky to be third in the league 12/13 season, expect them to finish fourth.

LOL, what have other teams done that we have not? do you know how we are almost debt free? do you know our next sponsor will be paying big money for Arsenal?
We had the worsts start in 50 years and still finished 3erd, we lost so many players to injures and we still finished 3erd. Just wait and see the new Arsenal.

We signed Podolski.
Olivier giroud is almost done
M'Vila is next.
Jack is back.

We are not done yet.

by Lex Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:39 pm

Chelsea have grown? Chelsea have actually gone backwards this year. People are letting the glamour and panache of a CL win cloud their judgement

by Gomez83 Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:47 pm

Why are you guys taking what I said in a totally different direction, I'm talking about season 12/13 and Chelsea seems to be going forward with the talks of Hulk, Hazard etc, they are favorites for #3, not based on my opinion but many.
And that is wonderful Arsenal is out of debt they are going to stay a world class club for the long run, but doesn't change the fact that they competing against City, Chelsea, and Man U this coming up season, teams that have a better chance.

by Raptorgunner Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:53 pm

Gomez83 wrote:Why are you guys taking what I said in a totally different direction, I'm talking about season 12/13 and Chelsea seems to be going forward with the talks of Hulk, Hazard etc, they are favorites for #3, not based on my opinion but many.
And that is wonderful Arsenal is out of debt they are going to stay a world class club but doesn't change the fact that they competing against City, Chelsea, and Man U this coming up season, teams that have a better chance.

Ok so you telling me Arsenal signing Podolski and now Oliver griud almost done deal is not a right direction?

Please judge Arsenal after the summer, Wenger has learned his lesson and will bring in quality players.

by DuringTheWar Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:57 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Anyways I honestly don't see why so many Arsenal fans insist they have a chance at winning trophies next season. City and United will undoubtedly get stronger. What signings have Arsenal made to suggest they will match them? Podolski is class, but I see him as an RVP replacement, and even if RVP stays he's not enough. Arsenal just had one of their worse season in recent memory, with many Gunners fearing they wouldn't even make the CL for much of the season. How have they suddenly turned into world beaters?

Last season was nightmarish at times, but a lot can change in a short space of time. These are the additions to last years squad so far: podolski, giroud, and wilshere. This already solves some big problems:
1. relying too much on van persie for goals, podolski and giroud both have good goal records, and a massive uprgrade from park and chamakh
2. Lack of quality in midfield, this was a massive problem for us last season, wilshere will help a lot, and if we do get mvila as well it starts to look pretty strong again, and i think it would make a massive difference to the team. If we look back at last season there were three shocking bad spells for arsenal, the start of the season when the team was a mess, arteta hadnt settled in while wilsheres absense was leaving the midfield totally exposed with a struggling ramsey and out of form rosicky trying to pull it together, and the end of season run after arteta was injured. In between this there was a period where bizzarly every single full back was injured, we had to start playing midfielders at full back and even they got injured, this was a bad time for us. Apart from these periods our league form was not shabby at all, it even matched the manchester clubs hense how we managed to finish third, this tells me that barring an incredible injury crisis and as long as we have at least one of arteta and wilshere fit arsenal can seriously compete for the title, especially with the added threats of podolski and giroud

Of course if we do lose van persie its like taking one step forward then two steps back, but if we do keep him then to me this potential team could win trophies. Even if we dont sign mvila its still a lot stronger than last year

by gunner1987 Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:57 pm

Gomez83 wrote:The thing is, many clubs such this year are growing at such a fast rate, Chelsea, City with massive signings.. again and Arsenal is only going in a normal pace, Arsenal are still top 10, and will contend good in UEFA, but would be lucky to be third in the league 12/13 season, expect them to finish fourth.

City hasn't signed anyone have they? Unless I missed something...

Chelsea lost Drogba, Kalou, and Bosingwa. Granted adding Martin and hazard is huge, and if Hulk goes.. Not convinced Torres is ready to be the focal point of that attack though.

IF we add M'Villa and Giroud to the Podolski signing, and keep RVP, wilshere comes back healthy... I don't see how we couldn't be considered a contender for EPL/deep run in the CL.

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