La Masia

Free_cat, Tap ins are still goals, I've seen Dongou score better goals than that.They are both great prospects but don't attempt to discredit one over the other.

tonykross wrote:Free_cat, Tap ins are still goals, I've seen Dongou score better goals than that.They are both great prospects but don't attempt to discredit one over the other.

I'm not discrediting Dongou and I haven't done that. Look at what I wrote:

Dongou is a great talent for sure. And I think he will reach the first team. What I don't think is that he will become a starter. He lacks technique to be a first teamer. But hey, if he is really 17, he has plenty of time to improve and nothing is settled in stone.. Btw, perhaps he can play at the wings, but he doesn't usually, so I think it's speculation.

I don't see the point of doing that, I support all our youngsters. Plus, they don't even play in the same position. It's FCBarça who has discredited Deulofeu in favour of Dongou, I don't know why, ask him.

Tap ins are still goals, agreed. I wished Rodri could do that. I'm sure Dongou will score at least 15 goals next season with the B team and will be a big improvement over Rodri.

Deulofeu might be a Navas at best.I would take Chamberlain over him, he has more natural ability than Deulofeu. Ebwelle might be our most naturally gifted winger in the Cantera if he continues to develop. read the scouting report about him.
http://www.just-football.com/2012/01/generation-2022-al-kass-under-17-international-cup-scouting-report/

Not saying I necessarily agree with you but Chamberlain cost Arsenal €16+4 million at the age of 18.

tonykross wrote:Deulofeu might be a Navas at best.I would take Chamberlain over him, he has more natural ability than Deulofeu. Ebwelle might be our most naturally gifted winger in the Cantera if he continues to develop. read the scouting report about him.
http://www.just-football.com/2012/01/generation-2022-al-kass-under-17-international-cup-scouting-report/

I agree that we could say that in the worst case scenario Deulofeu will be a "Navas". But in the best case, he will be a "Cristiano Ronaldo".

Comparing him with Chamberlain it's Pears vs. Apples. Let's wait until they are both playing with the big boys for a while.

We will see how Ebwelle does next season with Juvenil A, eager to watch him seeing that you rate him so high.

Free_cat, I like Deulofeu, don't get me wrong. I will also want him to be a christiano Ronaldo,but I don't like that much hype around him and let him develop slowly.We've had enough with Bojan and no more Bojan V2 story.

Free_Cat I'll vote for Deulofeu for player of the season. he has really impressed me particularly in the second half of the season.Rafinhna has been so so.

free_cat wrote:Dongou is a great talent for sure. And I think he will reach the first team. What I don't think is that he will become a starter. He lacks technique to be a first teamer. But hey, if he is really 17, he has plenty of time to improve and nothing is settled in stone.. Btw, perhaps he can play at the wings, but he doesn't usually, so I think it's speculation.

Well, sounds like we're in agreement too...There are no guarantees, even on the segunda level...There are hopes of players with potential (Deulofeu & Dongou are both in there, I believe) and then there are some who you know right away they will be special (like Leo, Thiago and even Grimaldo, for me)

There are of course the Bojans too...Players who aren't poor per se but fail to live up to the hype...I call this the Leo effect that placed a magnifying glass over everyone in the cantera...The uber hyped kid used to be Thiago but he's the real deal, we know this...Bojan probably had too much hype and I worry Deulofeu is in that same category...I just think there are a lot of question marks about a player who has been uber hyped and has had the CR comparisons...Guys like that are rare in the cantera, he has a goalscorer's ego - which is also good of course...The strange part of his game that is absent, for me, that is universally present in other cantera players, IMHO is workrate...But I'd love to be wrong about him...I just rate Dongou's chances better atm than Geri's because he has a broader skill set but also has that goalscorers DNA you hope for

free_cat wrote:I think you don't realize the huge leap there is between playing with boys of your age or at least 2 years more (Dongou at Juvenil), than playing at Segunda, vs. the second string best players of Spain of all ages. A division that is very competitive and is proving year after year that most of their top teams are in the same level than bottom first division teams. The leap is huge. Deulofeu adapted after Tello and Cuenca left and has been ripping Segunda apart with 17 years old (now 18).

Predicting which B team players are going to get promoted or be a factor has been one of my favorite things to do...even before Guardiola...Only JDS I have been wide of the mark but otherwise I have had a good feel for the gap between Segunda & the Primera...I am not too ashamed to admit I feel I have a good eye for the kids that are ready

free_cat wrote:Tello is a racecar. Deulofeu is a racecar than has much more technique, dribling skills, passing and shot. The comparison with CR is inevitable, while the comparison between Dongou and Falcao is mere speculation. It can happen, but they are not very similar now.

I think the opposite and I thought this when Tello was with Spain, you could see the improvement in his overall game...He was a constant threat but not for goals, he was servicing Rodri like Pedro...Deulofeu doesn't have that in his skill set, I am certain of that...That doesn't mean he won't acquire it still but lacking it makes him a one trick pony in the big leagues...He can't just burn people for pace and dribbling segunda defending does not equate to having good technique...He particularly struggles against bigger defenders and hasn't learned how to overhwhelm them with their workrate, which Pedro learned to do...In fact, I've seen Eusebio flip him to the other wing to try and give him encouragement because he can drift out of a match otherwise

free_cat wrote:It's kind of rushing things to judge Deulofeu's future on his only appearence this season as a sub for the first team that lasted 20 minutes.

I'm just saying you know those who are ready right when they debut...No one who has debuted strongly under Pep has failed to be promoted and no one who has struggled has been promoted...There is indeed a leap in quality and Deulofeu is raw still...I'd say even Paco over at Valencia is further ahead in his development than Deulofeu...I mean he was only recently promoted to B and didn't feature much the season before where Cuenca, Tello and Soriano were key...It's early but I am curious to see how he does in preseason...Because if he struggles there, it'll be a while before he gets another shot to shine...I mean even a young defender like Balliu has shined in his limited minutes where more hyped defenders like Muniesa have struggled to make an impression...The leap is not an easy one

free_cat wrote:I could do the same with Dongou's appearences with the B team, which have been far from impressive, but that would be stupid cause he has barely played and he is 17.

It'd be stupid because he's been promoted all of what, 4-6 months?...I'm more prudent than that in concluding a player is one thing or another, I need more time to see them...You're also failing to factor in that the kid has been jumping levels like Messi did...That's not something that happens in the cantera, no one does that at the moment...That merits more respect than I think he's getting just because Graham Hunter wrote some hyperbole about him...For the record, I think Hunter is great but he's crazy for what he said...I think there is actually world class potential in Dongou but Messi level?...I mean, let's be honest, there isn't going to be a Messi level player ever...At least not in our lifetime, that I am pretty confident of

free_cat wrote:It's his appearences at Juvenil A that can point to Dongou being a very good player, not his 10 minutes appearences with B. Also, Deulofeu played a very good match in preseason in the America tour after coming back from the Euro U-18 (in which btw he was the best player).

Nope, I was at the final actually and it was U-19...Sergio Roberto & Isco had a great tourney...Geri actually was underwhelming

free_cat wrote:Well, the easy money would be to bet on Dongou's being a starter sooner or later according to Graham Hunter, wouldn't it? Haven't heard any reference of that kind from a journalist towards Deulofeu.

Nah, look Hunter is more of a fan who just happens to be a writer...He's not an athlete or former footballer...His opinions aren't really all that reliable on football, to be fair...This is the same guy who said the first time he saw Messi he wasn't impressed - so, come on, really?

Many assertions with little evidence IMO.

FCBarça wrote:
I think the opposite and I thought this when Tello was with Spain, you could see the improvement in his overall game...He was a constant threat but not for goals, he was servicing Rodri like Pedro...Deulofeu doesn't have that in his skill set, I am certain of that...

When Cuenca was promoted, Tello became the most dangerous player at Barça B. When Tello was promoted, Deulofeu became the most dangerous player, but doing much more than Tello ever did with the B. So how can you say Deulofeu has less skills than Tello? This happened in just some months. Give evidence.

FCBarça wrote:
I'm just saying you know those who are ready right when they debut...No one who has debuted strongly under Pep has failed to be promoted and no one who has struggled has been promoted...There is indeed a leap in quality and Deulofeu is raw still...I'd say even Paco over at Valencia is further ahead in his development than Deulofeu...I mean he was only recently promoted to B and didn't feature much the season before where Cuenca, Tello and Soriano were key...

Not true. Iniesta was nothing special in his debut. Messi did nothing in his debut vs. Oporto in 2004. Pedro was so incredibly average when he debuted with Rijkaard and Guardiola's 08/09.
Paco Alcazar is a good prospect, playing in 2aB and is a striker...
Deulofeu was promoted this year, not "just recently" and off course he didn't play last season: he was 16 then and helping the Juvenil A to the treble.

FCBarça wrote:
It'd be stupid because he's been promoted all of what, 4-6 months?...You're also failing to factor in that the kid has been jumping levels like Messi did...That's not something that happens in the cantera, no one does that at the moment...

Dongou has not been promoted to Barça B FYI.
Deulofeu also has been jumping levels at Messi's age (or almost). Also, Dongou's real age is always a question mark.

FCBarça wrote:
Hunter is the same guy who said the first time he saw Messi he wasn't impressed - so, come on, really?

And you were impressed the first time you watched Messi in his debut vs. Oporto, or his debut in league at Espanyol, or with his games at the B team? He did nothing in any of them.

free_cat wrote:Many assertions with little evidence IMO.

The evidence is in the footage, it's out there...Like many fans, I have every match on my HD

free_cat wrote:When Cuenca was promoted, Tello became the most dangerous player at Barça B. When Tello was promoted, Deulofeu became the most dangerous player, but doing much more than Tello ever did with the B. So how can you say Deulofeu has less skills than Tello? This happened in just some months. Give evidence.

Video...I mentioned how Tello looked impressive even before he played a minute with the first team, when he was playing with Spain...but he was impressive even prior to that which saw him leave guaranteed first team football from Espanyol to return to the cantera and the B team

free_cat wrote:Not true. Iniesta was nothing special in his debut. Messi did nothing in his debut vs. Oporto in 2004. Pedro was so incredibly average when he debuted with Rijkaard and Guardiola's 08/09.
Paco Alcazar is a good prospect, playing in 2aB and is a striker...
Deulofeu was promoted this year, not "just recently" and off course he didn't play last season: he was 16 then and helping the Juvenil A to the treble.

First of all, Iniesta didn't debut with Pep so that's not a relevant example...Neither was Leo but what I did say is that those that showed the ability from the first time on the pitch always made the step up from B...Everytime, and I mean everytime Leo was on the pitch, he looked a phenom...You're rewriting history now or gravitating towards Graham Hunter

Pedro, average?...Yes & no on Pedro...Jeffren & Pedro debuted in that preseason summer of '08 with Pep and both showed promise from the wings...Although I have to admit, I thought Jeffren looked the better pro at the time...What happened from summer until his random times out on the pitch was remarkable but the talent and work ethic were always out there...He just finally put it together with regularity which saw him get promoted but certainly not average...He was in the discussion for promotion after summer '08 even despite looking inferior to Jeffren at the time

Exactly my point on Deulofeu...You're touting him as being so important and ready etc. yet he's only been recently promoted and not even 6 months ago called out by Eusebio for not working hard enough - publicly, which is not the usual way with the club

free_cat wrote:Dongou has not been promoted to Barça B FYI. Deulofeu also has been jumping levels at Messi's age (or almost). Also, Dongou's real age is always a question mark.

Not officially, no, but he started playing with them since winter...when he was 16, younger than Deulofeu...Again, Leo comparisons here..And you now want to question Dongou's age?...How about we stick to the facts

free_cat wrote:And you were impressed the first time you watched Messi in his debut vs. Oporto, or his debut in league at Espanyol, or with his games at the B team? He did nothing in any of them.

Leo looked so good everytime I saw him by the time he was 17, I already was thinking he was going to be better than Ronaldinho...That's not me bragging, I think most people thought similar...Plus, I'd love to see vids of Deulofeu dribbling the entire team when he was 5 and 6 years of age - you're acting as if Messi surprised the world or something, he's been like this since he was born it seems...Let's not use Messi as an example, he's an aberration - there's not going to be another like him

My last post on the matter, it's getting tiring and childish to be honest.

FCBarça wrote:Video...I mentioned how Tello looked impressive even before he played a minute with the first team, when he was playing with Spain...but he was impressive even prior to that which saw him leave guaranteed first team football from Espanyol to return to the cantera and the B team

Whatever you say dude, if you say Tello looked impressive last season at Barça B, you clearly have no clue. Before that, he was playing at Juvenil level and did less than Deulofeu at Juvenil level (just to remind you, Deulofeu won all titles possible at Juvenil being the second best player after Rafinha).

FCBarça wrote:Leo showed the ability from the first time on the pitch always made the step up from B...Everytime, and I mean everytime Leo was on the pitch, he looked a phenom...[...] Leo looked so good everytime I saw him by the time he was 17

So, you didn't even watch Messi until he was 17, didn't watch his first games in his career with Barça (either with first team or B team), yet you claim he was impressive since the first time. Ok. I recommend you to go back and watch Messi's games vs. Oporto, Espanyol and every game he played with Barça B, that you surely have in your HD, and hit me back.

FCBarça wrote:Exactly my point on Deulofeu...You're touting him as being so important and ready etc. yet he's only been recently promoted

Yet you say Dongou, who has not been promoted and barely played with the B team, is more ready than Deulofeu. Contradiction much?

FCBarça wrote:And you now want to question Dongou's age?...How about we stick to the facts

It's difficult to know the real age of many of these kids who come from Africa. Why do you think other cameroonians before Dongou have not reached anything although they looked godly in our youth ranks? It's a question mark, it doesn't mean I accuse him of faking his age or anything.

I'm just gonna chime in here because firstly, I don't think either of you have a clue what you're arguing or what the other is arguing...

What I gather is... FCBarca, you are saying Deulofeu shouldn't be hyped like Free is hyping him, but Dongou should be. Free is saying the opposite.

Here's what I'll say.

Firstly, Free was using hyperbole after a great performance from Gerard. We all are aware that overhyping players isn't any use and you've got to stay down to earth, but there is no harm in being excited about a young prospect. You are acting like Deulofeu is some ordinary scrub. He's a wonderful player for his level. No need to hype him too much, and nobody really intended that, but nothing wrong with backing the kid.

Secondly, do you forget that he is 17? Like you said, forget Messi, and wisely. How can you make these sweeping judgements on a 17 year old? If you want to be sceptical, be sceptical, but no need to write him off saying he's not got what Pedro, Jeffren, Tello or Cuenca have... God, all those players were around 20, at least, when they got their chances... Gerard only just hit puberty ffs. All you can look at is the fact that by 16 and 17 years of age he is much better than what all those guys were. I don't even see how thats an argument either...

And Tello... he was absolute rubbish upon returning... No chance you would have spotted at the beginning of last season that he might have broken out.

I thought this was a discussion, I didn't see it as being an attack or anything - even seemed friendly...Certainly, I don't profess to be an expert or more knowledgeable than others - just that I have a different/reasonable take, as well

I was just adding my opinion to the discussion... I never said you attacked anyone. I agree with some of what you say, but not all. No need to be defensive, its great to have somebody else who knows things about the youth of our club. I welcome the discussion big time, just like I say, I don't agree with you on a lot of the Deulofeu stuff.

It is a friendly discussion, but come on, there are things that you are making up or manipulating just because you have some sort of dislike to Deulofeu. You can't deny his great performances in Juvenil A, his incredible half season at Segunda and that he has been better at his age than many others.

BarcaKizz wrote:
What I gather is... FCBarca, you are saying Deulofeu shouldn't be hyped like Free is hyping him, but Dongou should be. Free is saying the opposite.

Well, for the sake of them I don't think any of them should be hyped up in the media, but this is a forum that no one will read, and I think I can hype Deulofeu and that Dongou can also be hyped too. I support them both.

free_cat wrote:Whatever you say dude, if you say Tello looked impressive last season at Barça B, you clearly have no clue. Before that, he was playing at Juvenil level and did less than Deulofeu at Juvenil level (just to remind you, Deulofeu won all titles possible at Juvenil being the second best player after Rafinha).

I never said Tello looked impressive with the B team, I said with Spain...He was recently dropped from the club and improved with Espanyol's cantera...Truth is he looked only ok at B the few times I saw him...It was with Spain where something clicked and he was a different player, at least for me...He still looks like that player although he impressed less in his last couple of appearances...But I don't agree that he's a racecar and I'd still say his workrate and value to the first team is greater than Deulofeu's - at this time

free_cat wrote:So, you didn't even watch Messi until he was 17, didn't watch his first games in his career with Barça (either with first team or B team), yet you claim he was impressive since the first time. Ok. I recommend you to go back and watch Messi's games vs. Oporto, Espanyol and every game he played with Barça B, that you surely have in your HD, and hit me back.

I saw him when he was 15 even...But I'm saying I knew he would be better than Ronaldinho at 17...At 15, it wasn't if he was going to be great or promoted etc, it was just about when

free_cat wrote:Yet you say Dongou, who has not been promoted and barely played with the B team, is more ready than Deulofeu. Contradiction much?

I see why there's some concern that this has turned frosty, you're taking this personally...And not just here but you've skipped several points I made where you made some erroneous conclusions...Dongou has played less than Deulofeu with the B team, right?...Yet I'd say Jean-Marie has looked better with the B team in the time that he has played with them than Geri did in a similar span of time - and Dongou would still be younger...So, objectively, that would place Dongou further along the curve than Deulofeu...But I'm not even going by the age, youth level, stats, Graham Hunter etc...I am merely going by what I have seen...Dongou has a nice bag of tricks, more so than Geri...right now

And you know the whole youth level promotion vs trial aspect is a litmus test from the club...They're testing the player to gauge where they are in their development, just like they do when a B teamer gets a run out with the first team...And I am quite confident that within the club, they see something special in Dongou as well, which would explain his meteoric rise...Deulofeu has gotten moved around a lot as well, I agree...He's prized at the club, I'm not disputing that...I'm actually saying his hype hasn't matched his play...And that gap was exposed when he played with the first team, that's what the litmus test shows

When Dongou finally gets his first team debut, I wager he's going to look a lot more convincing than Geri did in his run out

free_cat wrote:It's difficult to know the real age of many of these kids who come from Africa. Why do you think other cameroonians before Dongou have not reached anything although they looked godly in our youth ranks? It's a question mark, it doesn't mean I accuse him of faking his age or anything.

It's difficult yet you have no problem throwing it out there to diminish the player...That sounds prejudicial to me

You're alluding to Gael Etock, I presume?...Although I never read anything about controversies surrounding his age...As for his hype, I was never on that bandwagon, btw

Truth is, I never get too amped about these young kids...I wait until I see them live or in a full match and then I wait until they do it against advanced competition...But first team football is a different kettle of fish, always...But that doesn't mean you can't pick out the gems...That's part of the reason why it's rare to spot a gem of a defender in the cantera, you just never really know until they are tested against elite competition - except Grimaldo, IMHO...Also a reason why that NextGen was an exceptional test of Juvenil A going against much older kids, including Dongou, btw

BarcaKizz wrote:
What I gather is... FCBarca, you are saying Deulofeu shouldn't be hyped like Free is hyping him, but Dongou should be. Free is saying the opposite.

I'm saying both are hyped and I don't like hype in general...But Dongou is the player I think has the better potential to be a first team success...For now and longterm, that's who I would predict will be

BarcaKizz wrote:Firstly, Free was using hyperbole after a great performance from Gerard. We all are aware that overhyping players isn't any use and you've got to stay down to earth, but there is no harm in being excited about a young prospect. You are acting like Deulofeu is some ordinary scrub. He's a wonderful player for his level. No need to hype him too much, and nobody really intended that, but nothing wrong with backing the kid.

Agreed on the hyperbole but disagree that I'm saying he's a scrub...I'm saying he has been overhyped...He's not a scrub but he's not this next CR he's been hyped as for awhile...He's Bojan, for me

BarcaKizz wrote:Secondly, do you forget that he is 17? Like you said, forget Messi, and wisely. How can you make these sweeping judgements on a 17 year old? If you want to be sceptical, be sceptical, but no need to write him off saying he's not got what Pedro, Jeffren, Tello or Cuenca have... God, all those players were around 20, at least, when they got their chances... Gerard only just hit puberty ffs. All you can look at is the fact that by 16 and 17 years of age he is much better than what all those guys were. I don't even see how thats an argument either...

Again, I'm not saying Deulofeu is going to be a failure or bagging groceries at the local market anytime soon...I'm just saying he has a ways to go and yes, precisely because he's only 18...The Leo effect has placed unrealistic expectations and hype on the cantera kids and Geri is a minor rockstar in the youth ranks...He's the target of the opposing fan's venom both for the club & the NT...He's the focus in interviews and writeups...and he knows this...He's very cocky and he's not always a hardworker as a result...It makes him unusual at La Masia because most, if not all, are humble and hardworking...That's the ethos there...Deulofeu is not like that...That's not a sweeping generalization or insult, it's a pretty easy conclusion to make being around him for even a short time...But I've seen him live probably a dozen times

Dongou, he looks the part of a cantera kid from the club...Uber confident but very lowkey which doesn't diminish his lethal edge on the pitch

BarcaKizz wrote:And Tello... he was absolute rubbish upon returning... No chance you would have spotted at the beginning of last season that he might have broken out.

I spotted Tello for Spain in summer '11...I remembered him from the cantera but he was a different player in '11 - unrecognizable really...When Rodri was making the headlines for Spain, I became enamoured with Tello - he was the unsung hero in that tourney...I couldn't understand the change in his game - he was a completely different player...Clearly Pep saw this too because he ended up with the preseason of the first team as a result within weeks of his performances with Spain

I agree with pretty much all of what you said.

On Tello, yes, he seemed to make a big change. Preseason in 2010 he was very ordinary. I remember the tournament you speak of and that Tello impressed there. It will be most interesting to see if he has more to his game and develops. I hope he does, but I can understand some of his critics and those that say we should cash in on him while he's hot.

Since you seem to know a bit about La Masia, who would you personally rate as some of the better prospects?

BarcaKizz wrote:I agree with pretty much all of what you said.

On Tello, yes, he seemed to make a big change. Preseason in 2010 he was very ordinary. I remember the tournament you speak of and that Tello impressed there. It will be most interesting to see if he has more to his game and develops. I hope he does, but I can understand some of his critics and those that say we should cash in on him while he's hot.

Since you seem to know a bit about La Masia, who would you personally rate as some of the better prospects?

Yeah, I had to double check a few times because I kept thinking is there another Tello on Spain?...I didn't think it was 'our' Tello when I saw him play, I was blown away really...Speed is a precious commodity we've been in short supply of so yeah, I hope he stays

My gems?...I have two categories of gems...The gems that are certain to be first teamers and then the gems that could be like so many other good players in a cantera...For me, right now, there are only a handful of sure fire kids....Grimaldo, I've mentioned a few times and Dongou...Samper was in that category for me too but his development has tapered this season due to being played out of position a bit...Although he looked quite good in the NextGen series at times...Samper is the closest thing to Xavi in the cantera, for me...Has fantastic vision and plays like a natural really...What a catastrophe had he gone with Toral to Arsenal


I don't really get too amped about the younger kids normally like Lee, Park Sheng Ho, Enguene, Kubo, Traoré etc. because they're still pretty young...But at times, you do see some really special things from the kids in the 9-13 age range...Sometimes it's only a flash though so you wait to see what happens

Espinosa is a promising player but for some reason he's in Eusebio's doghouse (Yet another reason why I dislike him as manager)...I was really looking forward to his progression as a player but he remains a question mark...I wonder if that precludes him from the preseason as well

Sergio Roberto is an interesting player that I can't really decide how I feel about his prospects really...He's a bonafide first team football player, that much is certain I think...It's just how good he really is and whether he will be able to play regularly with this first team squad...I used to think he was just a system player despite the really graceful way he seemingly glides across the pitch with the ball...Very serious student of the game from what I can tell...Very disciplined and unselfish, through & through...I can't always tell with these sort of players just how much potential they ultimately have because they rarely deviate from the system...He could start for a lot of clubs but does he have world class in him?...I don't know...but I've liked what I've seen of him with the first team actually...He surprised there and showed more aggression than I see from him with Spain or the youth teams...There are several players like Roberto too and perhaps part of it personality too, not sure

That's something about Pep's departure that will be really hard to take...He changed so much with the club, obviously, but it all started with the cantera...I'm sure there will be continuity there but Pep has been perfect in his development of youth team players...Will Tito be able to continue it as successfully?...It's a tough act to follow for anyone

Seriously, I'm not taking this persnonally at all: I don't have any personal involvement with Deulofeu, neither a great sympathy for him - he's an arrogant spoiled kid.

But he is a good player, and I'm getting tired of your demagogy. Are you catalan? "Puc entendre que et faci ràbia el crio si ets català, ja que és una mica quillo i xulo, però és un bon jugador."

FCBarça wrote:
He still looks like that player although he impressed less in his last couple of appearances...

Guess we should say he has no future, as you do with Deulofeu for his 60 minutes of first team football.

FCBarça wrote:But I don't agree that he's a racecar and I'd still say his workrate and value to the first team is greater than Deulofeu's - at this time

I like Tello, but he is the catalan walcott. He runs very fast, shots and only has one dribling. I think you are alone in the world saying he is not a racecar at this stage.

FCBarça wrote: Dongou has played less than Deulofeu with the B team, right?...Yet I'd say Jean-Marie has looked better with the B team in the time that he has played with them than Geri did in a similar span of time - and Dongou would still be younger...

Dongou has played 104 minutes with the B team. Are you seriously drawing conclusions from that? How can you have the chick to say he has "looked better" than Deulofeu? That's an outright manipulation. Haven't you seen all the wonder plays Deulofeu has done? All Dongou has done is do off-the-ball runs and score two tap ins. Give him more time before saying stupid things like Dongou has looked better in 104 minutes than Deulofeu in 1.700.

FCBarça wrote:
And that gap was exposed when he played with the first team, that's what the litmus test shows

Again, are you really judging Deulofeu for the 60 minutes he played for the first team???? It's just a ludicrous thing to do. Note also that those games were before he was a regular for the B team and a more confident player. And in one of them he was pretty good anyway.

FCBarça wrote:When Dongou finally gets his first team debut, I wager he's going to look a lot more convincing than Geri did in his run out

Ok, wager what you want, but if Dongou plays 20 minutes with the first team and doesn't shine, I hope you are coherent and come here to say that some guy from the Cadet A is more ready than him.

FCBarça wrote:It's difficult yet you have no problem throwing it out there to diminish the player...That sounds prejudicial to me

I don't want to diminish Dongou. It's a question mark, only that, that every player born in Africa has, even acomplished professionals like Michael Essien.

Free_cat, you sound a little bit prejudiced. the only player from Africa that came before Dongou was Etock, he didn't do that badly with the juvenile A team scoring 16 goals in an injury ravaged season he had last year.he now plays with Sporting Lisbon U19 team which is arguably the best U19 team in Europe and is doing quite well scoring fantastic goals.I think Barcelona management made a mistake letting him go, he would have been an asset for the B team.

I'm not prejudiced, it's something that happens all the time in football with African players and if you are sensible you should take it into consideration. Gael Etock is not the only player, several players from the Eto'o foundation have been discarded in the last years when they reached Juvenil or Cadet age.

Also, not to forgot the curious cases of Okunowo or Haruna Babangida, that fall perfectly in the pattern.

Free_cat just like kids from other nationalities that also failed to make the cut, where is Gai Assulin who was supposed to be the next Messi,Giovanni Dos santos ?

Free_Cat do you know the number of kids who have been through La Masia since the inception ? and please tell me how many of those kids have made it to the highest professional level ? A few years ago people were saying Asians can't play football, today they have top talents littered all over the place.

@FC Barca: I also see something in Sergi Roberto that I think many others here don't. I know Free and Khaled like him, but I have always really liked him. I think its partly because of his style, which has different elements to it that we don't have and haven't had at Barca for a while. Its the same reason why I was very excited about Tello. I've always wanted someone with real pace to be an option on the bench. With Roberto, its his athletic ability, his ability to play a little more direct, have a physical presence and also score goals.

I've always seen a very well rounded player who could develop into a very useful box-to-box mid for us. Prior to this season, I was giving him huge wraps. This year he played a few good games with the first team, but was also thrown in the deep-end on 2 occasions in which he failed. This lost him the support of some, and some have convinced me maybe I thought too much of him. Add to this, I believe Cesc's signing has and will affect Roberto above all others.

Free's informed me he's had a pretty good season anyway, and I still believe in him. I hope he can be a bit more influential next year and push on the door of the 1st team.

tonykross wrote:Free_cat just like kids from other nationalities that also failed to make the cut, where is Gai Assulin who was supposed to be the next Messi,Giovanni Dos santos ?

There are plenty of players that fail.
But it's only african players that they have trouble with the age. There are many reported cases.

I've coached a local youth teams for two years, and I had 7-8 african born players. There were one or two of them that didn't know his age and they were assigned to an age bracket via medical tests. The kids are doing nothing wrong, but they can be playing in an age bracket that it's not theirs.