If Kenny was sacked..

Man this past couple of days have been very dull and slow regarding any news about the club but hopefully this hasn't been the case and the owners are working quietly to ensure we get the best available/possible outcome in the end.

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Man this past couple of days have been very dull and slow regarding any news about the club but hopefully this hasn't been the case and the owners are working quietly to ensure we get the best available/possible outcome in the end.

It's been slow because the majority of the "news" originated from the rumor mill. The owners never have aired the club's dirty laundry in public, others have been responsible for that. As soon as things "hit the fan," we began to see rumors. They're starting to slow down now, because there is only so much speculation that can come out of a vacuum. Hopefully, we'll see some hard news from the club on a Director of Football soon. I would be surprised to see them interviewing candidates for manager before that announcement.

Telegraph are reporting Martinez has been interviewed yesterday but arent very keen to hire him for the job.Hopefully its true.

Martinez was granted permission to speak to Liverpool last week with Wigan owner Dave Whelan going public with the request. The 38 year-old met Liverpool officials and then flew to Spain before, yesterday, heading off on a holiday to Barbados. Although the Spaniard is admired by the club, the lack of support for him among the supporters may be key in him not getting the job.

It is also thought that, despite the high-profile nature of his involvement in the process so far, Martinez does not feel he will be chosen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9281085/Liverpool-keen-on-move-for-former-England-manager-Fabio-Capello-as-replacement-for-Kenny-Dalglish.html

AVB ruled out according to the Echo.

In my honest opinion, no one knows squat.

I just hope its good photoshop work or just a trip to make Martinez feel good on looking forward to his future

It's a meeting between the owner and a candidate for the position. Don't read too much into it.

RedOranje wrote:It's a meeting between the owner and a candidate for the position. Don't read too much into it.

I know all that mate, am a little worried about the whole process. .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18191006

BBC reporting it usually they are don't post stuff unless they are certain.
I think he will do a good job if he can get some of the players he wants.

Although mention AVB is still in contention, I think Liverpool would suit him as Chelsea has players like Terry and Lampard who seem like that want a big say in what happens and maybe lacked respect for him.

BBC are just reporting what Wigan's owner, Whelan said. Whelan likes to talk and he also doesn't want Martinez to leave, so he's most likely bullshitting to try to force Liverpool's hand on the matter.

Apart from the fact that Martinez has gone to meet our owners nothing is for certain! ! everything else is just being run by 'The Dave Whelan' show! !

Fearing for the worst - if it's Roberto Martinez we will stamp ourselves to officially being a a mid-table club. Could see the likes of Suarez and Skrtel leaving if so.

ynwa wrote:Fearing for the worst - if it's Roberto Martinez we will stamp ourselves to officially being a a mid-table club. Could see the likes of Suarez and Skrtel leaving if so.

More than a bit of knee-jerking and overreaction there, I think.

I wish it is. But it won't be. Martinez is no where near good enough for Liverpool Football Club.

Again, only time will tell (if he's even appointed). You're jumping to conclusions far too quickly.

Neither is a forgone conclusion.

He may not even be appointed. He's merely the first to have talks with the owners. Everything has pointed to an interview process involving multiple candidates. So, his ascension is far from certain.

If he is appointed, there's no certainty that he will fail. His tactics in the last half of the season suggest that he has the ability to be a very good manager, and Liverpool have the players to make his system work. take a look at these variations on MArtinez's three-at-the-back system:

Variation 1: 3-4-3 / 5-2-3
-------------Carroll
------Suarez------Gerrard
-----------Adam-Lucas
Enrique ------------------Johnson
-------Agger -Skrtel-Kelly
----------------Reina

Variation 2: 3-5-2 / 5-3-2
--------Carroll- Suarez
----Adam – Lucas – Gerrard
Enrique ------------------Johnson
-------Agger -Skrtel-Kelly
----------------Reina

Variation 3: 3-4-3 / 5-2-3
-------------Carroll
Suarez-------------------Downing
---------Gerrard-Lucas
Enrique ------------------Johnson
-------Agger -Skrtel-Kelly
----------------Reina

Variation 4: 3-5-2 / 5-3-2
------Carroll – Suarez
-----------Gerrard
---------Adam – Lucas
Enrique ------------------Johnson
-------Agger -Skrtel-Kelly
----------------Reina

Lots of potential in that squad, even without additions.

Thing is you guys are going through a rebuilding phase and Martinez is a good young manager. Lucas will be back next season which will be a massive boost and likely their will be a few new additions.

RedOranje wrote:Again, only time will tell (if he's even appointed). You're jumping to conclusions far too quickly.

That's why I said fearing for the worst. Personally think he will be appointed considering the likes of Barnes, Gerrard and Henchoz have all talked about him.

I may be jumping to conclusions too quickly, but I don't see what the difference between Martinez and Hodgson. We all said that Roy will shine with the likes of better plays and will do well with a much improved squad.


I'll reply to your DROD later. Have to go for now.

I'll try quickly reply.

His 3-4-3 is a "Plan B" that he uses at the end of season for an attempt to stay up every year.

The football Wigan play is not all that. Regardless, we played great football under Kenny and we didn't get results. On what basis is Martinez going to fix that? Let's not forget the comparison between the expectations Wigan and Liverpool have. Will he handle the pressure from both the media and fans if all goes bad? Or will he flop?

We need an experienced manager who is relatively young who can handle the pressure of being at a big club. We must get back into the CL, not take a 50/50. The likes of Benitez, AVB and Pep (highly unlikely) are all unemployed and all know what to do to get inside the Champions League which will boost our chances of getting in there. (I ignore Capello as he is in his 60's.)

Futhermore, they both have an eye for talent and will do wonders with the transfer budget that is rumoured of having. I understand that the DoF will pin targets and negotiate with teams but at the end of the day, the manager accepts or rejects them.

No different from Hodgson? His approach to the game is different, his interviews and relationship with the media and fans is different, he's a young up-and-comer rather than an old established guy with 37 years of experience, he's known for his sides' quick passing and attacking play whereas Roy is known for his sides' pragmatic and essentially defensive approach... he's basically the anti-thesis of Roy Hodgson.

@YNWA
I know the 3-4-3 was his backup plan, and I would be lying to you if I said I wasn't concerned by his appointment. I've posted somewhere ( I think it was the general section) that I feel like Martinez was two managers last season. The first played a standard 4-3-3, and fielded a team that looked like relegation fodder. The second fielded a team that looked like competing for European qualification at times, through the implementation of a dynamic 3-4-3. Unfortunately, the change wasn't simply a tactical shift from Martinez, it was a last ditch effort. He had to change something to have any hope of avoiding relegation.

The positive thing is that it shows that he can adapt tactically to maximize the players at his disposal. The disappointing thing is that he hung onto his previous setup until it was almost too late, because it was seemingly more comfortable. THe hope would be that in getting the Liverpool job he would choose to continue the tactical exploits that won him the necessary plaudits to be in consideration. However, my biggest concern is that once in the hotseat, he could revert to a more "PL tested" setup/tactics, essentially implementing a "small team" mentality of winning the points you "should win" and hoping to steal points against "big" sides.

I honestly don't believe that FSG are interviewing him, because he's the "best we can do." I think they're looking for buried treasure or the proverbial diamond in the rough. FSG want stability and high quality. We are looking for our Fergie/Wenger. In searching in that mold, there are inherent risks. You're not pursuing current champions, buy future champions, and that means they may not already have a long resume of accomplishments.

Many sources are claiming John Henry will be in Liverpool this next week. Hopefully DoF and Managerial positions will be solved by the end of his stay in Europe.

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Many sources are claiming John Henry will be in Liverpool this next week. Hopefully DoF and Managerial positions will be solved by the end of his stay in Europe.

Hmm... Interesting. Barring a Martinez shocker during tomorrow afternoon's press conference, there's not a clear front-runner for the position. Besides, there's really no need for Henry to be in Liverpool for the announcement. I would honestly be surprised to see anything substantial come out while he's in Liverpool. There would have had to have been some serious back-room interviewing and searching going on to have kept it from the media. Who knows... Maybe they are better at covert dealings than I am giving them credit for.

Van Gaal for Sports Director & Martinez for Manager looks the most RUMORED results . . . however, nothing concrete at all . . i repeat with hyper importance NOTHING CONCRETE

I read an interesting post on RAWK that stood out to me. It was on the lines of somebody stating Liverpool has only had 15 managers since 1892, with the 16th about to be appointed. We've had 3 different managers since 2010.

RedOranje wrote:No different from Hodgson? His approach to the game is different, his interviews and relationship with the media and fans is different, he's a young up-and-comer rather than an old established guy with 37 years of experience, he's known for his sides' quick passing and attacking play whereas Roy is known for his sides' pragmatic and essentially defensive approach... he's basically the anti-thesis of Roy Hodgson.

They might have different ways of how they play but they do similiarities. They start with both having the small mentality of finding draws against "bigger teams" a positive result. At Liverpool, there's a certain expectation of getting a result against any side in the league. Everybody hoped Roy would do well as he had better players at his disposal, but it never worked out.

Then there's that neither have had the experience of a big club - Roy couldn't handle it, Martinez still hasn't attempted it - he might be a successful... but there's also no guarantee that he might not. We're not at a time to gamble.

They're both nice to the media so the media loves them both. Which successful manager at Liverpool has had a great relationship with the media? Can't think of any myself. They made teams play for the fans [adopted by Shankly as you know] not for the press.

donttreadonred wrote:@YNWA
I know the 3-4-3 was his backup plan, and I would be lying to you if I said I wasn't concerned by his appointment. I've posted somewhere ( I think it was the general section) that I feel like Martinez was two managers last season. The first played a standard 4-3-3, and fielded a team that looked like relegation fodder. The second fielded a team that looked like competing for European qualification at times, through the implementation of a dynamic 3-4-3. Unfortunately, the change wasn't simply a tactical shift from Martinez, it was a last ditch effort. He had to change something to have any hope of avoiding relegation.

The positive thing is that it shows that he can adapt tactically to maximize the players at his disposal. The disappointing thing is that he hung onto his previous setup until it was almost too late, because it was seemingly more comfortable. THe hope would be that in getting the Liverpool job he would choose to continue the tactical exploits that won him the necessary plaudits to be in consideration. However, my biggest concern is that once in the hotseat, he could revert to a more "PL tested" setup/tactics, essentially implementing a "small team" mentality of winning the points you "should win" and hoping to steal points against "big" sides.

I honestly don't believe that FSG are interviewing him, because he's the "best we can do." I think they're looking for buried treasure or the proverbial diamond in the rough. FSG want stability and high quality. We are looking for our Fergie/Wenger. In searching in that mold, there are inherent risks. You're not pursuing current champions, buy future champions, and that means they may not already have a long resume of accomplishments.

To your first paragraph: That's the thing though. He's been using 3-4-3 as a back-up for 2 years now. It's hardly a great tactical approach if he continues to use it as a second option.

Don't really disaagree with your second paragraph.

Your last paragraph just cries out for Rafa to me. Once he came at the club, he implemented the 4-2-3-1 tactics to the senior squad, reserves and the academy - which is still in use at the moment. He still has unfinished work here, but I don't think they'll go for him as he's had fights with the management uptop with three different clubs now. [Don't blame him with our previous owners, not too sure Valencia but he was shafted at Inter.]

Personally believe Martinez is only the main candinate as Whelan has been moaning to the media about it. Liverpool is back to doing everything behind the doors so there's no other leaked information. Why I said fearing for the worst if he was appointed, there's no guarantee that the job is his.

ynwa wrote:They might have different ways of how they play but they do similiarities. They start with both having the small mentality of finding draws against "bigger teams" a positive result. At Liverpool, there's a certain expectation of getting a result against any side in the league. Everybody hoped Roy would do well as he had better players at his disposal, but it never worked out.

How do you know that with Martinez that wasn't down to the resources he had at his disposal? He's young and there's very little evidence that "draws against 'bigger teams'" would be his goal at a larger club with better resources. Meanwhile Roy showed that that was his approach over decades of time. You're making a huge assumption there.

ynwa wrote:Then there's that neither have had the experience of a big club - Roy couldn't handle it, Martinez still hasn't attempted it - he might be a successful... but there's also no guarantee that he might not. We're not at a time to gamble.

Roy DID have experience at large clubs before though, he had time at Inter where he struggled. So there were previous indications that he would fail to adapt to his time at Liverpool. And part of his failure to adapt to a bigger club was his negative approach to the game, something Martinez wouldn't have working against him.

ynwa wrote:They're both nice to the media so the media loves them both. Which successful manager at Liverpool has had a great relationship with the media? Can't think of any myself. They made teams play for the fans [adopted by Shankly as you know] not for the press.

You're completely wrong here as well. Roy had previous issues with media outlets and fans, Martinez has had none. Roy got preferential treatment from the media because he's English, not because he's actually that likeable or savvy. Kenny had a solid relationship with the press during his first stint as manager. Martinez also has huge, HUGE support among the Wigan fans. He engendered himself to them and showed real loyalty and understanding of the club itself... something Roy's failed to do in several of his managerial positions.



Your comparisons are flat and faulty. I'm certainly worried and skeptical of whether Roberto Martinez could do the job for Liverpool but to compare him to Hodgson is just absurd.