Re: Will Real Madrid suffer from the "Mou effect"?

by Mr Nick09 Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:03 pm

Immortal Babun wrote:
What's this BS. Infection? They're just players suited to counter attack system. They developed too big of an ego after Mou's departure. Where is his fault?
You claims become more ridiculious day by day.

Breaking news! Mourinho uses a vodoo doll to jinx the manager who takes over the jobs after him :lol!:

you dont understand. Guys like Lampard, Terry and Drogba have developped a ridiculous bond with Mourinho, a bond that is still very present to this day as they are in contact virtually everyweek. It's not my invention it's a fact. And im also pretty sure that he hasnt developped that kind of bond with our players, certainly not with our captains lol.

by Babun Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:05 pm

The Franchise wrote:If you credit Mou for signing great players to help Chelsea and Inter win, you always have to say he didnt sign any young (25 and under) players which can carry them along in the future.

Im sorry, but its true. Its a fair criticism.

He wasn't for longer than 2 years in any of those clubs and each owner expected him to win immediatly. Repeat for x-th time. Maybe, I should make it to my sig?

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Immortal Babun wrote:
What's this BS. Infection? They're just players suited to counter attack system. They developed too big of an ego after Mou's departure. Where is his fault?
You claims become more ridiculious day by day.

Breaking news! Mourinho uses a vodoo doll to jinx the manager who takes over the jobs after him :lol!:

you dont understand. Guys like Lampard, Terry and Drogba have developped a ridiculous bond with Mourinho, a bond that is still very present to this day as they are in contact virtually everyweek. It's not my invention it's a fact. And im also pretty sure that he hasnt developped that kind of bond with our players, certainly not with our captains lol.

by Mr Nick09 Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:11 pm

dnmac4 wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:on the contrary, if Mourinho wins the CL and leaves, the next manager will have a great time, Less pressure from winning the decima. Expectation will only be to nurture our players and to maximize on the opportunity. our young crop of Ozil, benzema, Marcelo, Sahin, Di Maria, Ramos, Varane etc, are not even in their prime.

What??? You don't really believe this do you? You think if Mou wins the CL there will be less pressure on the next coach? This just isn't reality especially at Madrid.

Every coach at Madrid is expected to win either the league or the CL every year, if anything by judging by Madrid's standards Mou has gotten an easy run of it if you compare him to coach's in the past who have been fired even after winning trophies and beating Barca.

If Mou wins the CL the next coach will be expected to do the same and if he goes trophyless or wins the Copa like Mou did last year he will be fired because he will be deemed to have failed with a CL winning caliber team.

I mean teams expectations don't goes down after winning big trophies, look at Inter it took no time at all to sack Benitez, Barca sacked Rijkaard after great CL wining seasons, Bayern fired Van Gaal a year after his great run, Chelsea got rid of Ancelotti after doing the double and so on and so on.

What your suggesting just isn't reality at a big club especially your club.

Yes i do, simply because their is a sick obsession with winning la decima, not just any CL, it's la decima.

What you say about coaching expectations is true to the extent that we have a seriously young and powerful squad, which on talent alone deserves to be in final every year.

But i also believe that winning the CL will appease minds in Madrid, specially Perez's, because after a brilliant start of his reign at Madrid, he set us on a destructive path for a decade and he has to be aware of that. He is trying to make good.

That will translate in the way he would interact with the new coach, not making him feel like there is only the CL on his mind, but more patiente, and the long term in play. Expectations wont go down, but there would be more patience in my opinion, more peace of minds, and that's already a very big deal in Madrid.

by hrealmadrid Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Last year we had the third youngest team in all of Europe. I'm not worried.

by Dnmac4 Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:31 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:on the contrary, if Mourinho wins the CL and leaves, the next manager will have a great time, Less pressure from winning the decima. Expectation will only be to nurture our players and to maximize on the opportunity. our young crop of Ozil, benzema, Marcelo, Sahin, Di Maria, Ramos, Varane etc, are not even in their prime.

What??? You don't really believe this do you? You think if Mou wins the CL there will be less pressure on the next coach? This just isn't reality especially at Madrid.

Every coach at Madrid is expected to win either the league or the CL every year, if anything by judging by Madrid's standards Mou has gotten an easy run of it if you compare him to coach's in the past who have been fired even after winning trophies and beating Barca.

If Mou wins the CL the next coach will be expected to do the same and if he goes trophyless or wins the Copa like Mou did last year he will be fired because he will be deemed to have failed with a CL winning caliber team.

I mean teams expectations don't goes down after winning big trophies, look at Inter it took no time at all to sack Benitez, Barca sacked Rijkaard after great CL wining seasons, Bayern fired Van Gaal a year after his great run, Chelsea got rid of Ancelotti after doing the double and so on and so on.

What your suggesting just isn't reality at a big club especially your club.

Yes i do, simply because their is a sick obsession with winning la decima, not just any CL, it's la decima.

What you say about coaching expectations is true to the extent that we have a seriously young and powerful squad, which on talent alone deserves to be in final every year.

But i also believe that winning the CL will appease minds in Madrid, specially Perez's, because after a brilliant start of his reign at Madrid, he set us on a destructive path for a decade and he has to be aware of that. He is trying to make good.

That will translate in the way he would interact with the new coach, not making him feel like there is only the CL on his mind, but more patiente, and the long term in play. Expectations wont go down, but there would be more patience in my opinion, more peace of minds, and that's already a very big deal in Madrid.

What your saying makes no sense at all.

Especially when your dealing with Perez. He fired Del Bosque after winning the CL twice and two Liga's one year after he won the Champions League, exactly what were talking about here.

Not to mention your talking about Perez here. Nothing in his past suggests what your saying AT ALL.

After getting rid of Del Bosque after winning the Champions League twice he went through 5 MANAGERS in 3 YEARS. They didn't get the benefit of the doubt and that's after going through a hugely successful period.

No offense dude but what your suggesting makes no sense at any big club and it makes even less sense at your club especially under it's current management.

In fact I can't think of one time at a big club where expectations are lessened after winning a Champions League and I could give you example after example of what I'm saying.

by The Franchise Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:34 pm

Immortal Babun wrote:
The Franchise wrote:If you credit Mou for signing great players to help Chelsea and Inter win, you always have to say he didnt sign any young (25 and under) players which can carry them along in the future.

Im sorry, but its true. Its a fair criticism.
He wasn't for longer than 2 years in any of those clubs and each owner expected him to win immediatly. Repeat for x-th time. Maybe, I should make it to my sig?
Mr Nick09 wrote:
Immortal Babun wrote:
What's this BS. Infection? They're just players suited to counter attack system. They developed too big of an ego after Mou's departure. Where is his fault?
You claims become more ridiculious day by day.

Breaking news! Mourinho uses a vodoo doll to jinx the manager who takes over the jobs after him :lol!:

you dont understand. Guys like Lampard, Terry and Drogba have developped a ridiculous bond with Mourinho, a bond that is still very present to this day as they are in contact virtually everyweek. It's not my invention it's a fact. And im also pretty sure that he hasnt developped that kind of bond with our players, certainly not with our captains lol.

And where does it say you cant win straight and sign and then devolp young players? As I have said for the hundredth time.

by Mr Nick09 Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:37 pm

dnmac4 wrote:
What your saying makes no sense at all.

Especially when your dealing with Perez. He fired Del Bosque after winning the CL twice and two Liga's one year after he won the Champions League, exactly what were talking about here.

Not to mention your talking about Perez here. Nothing in his past suggests what your saying AT ALL.

After getting rid of Del Bosque after winning the Champions League twice he went through 5 MANAGERS in 3 YEARS. They didn't get the benefit of the doubt and that's after going through a hugely successful period.

No offense dude but what your suggesting makes no sense at any big club and it makes even less sense at your club especially under it's current management.

In fact I can't think of one time at a big club where expectations are lessened after winning a Champions League and I could give you example after example of what I'm saying.

What you are talking about happened in the early 2000s.

Perez has changed, a lot. He is a different man, but if you cant see that, it's because you are not looking and you only go back as far because it's all you know.

I would be the first to say that he haas changed a lot, and he is more worried about winning and making amends than anything else.

Well, we are not any big club are we. I'm speaking to you from the perspective of a madridista, and i am telling you that winning that Decima will ease a lot of minds in madrid.

I said expectations will be the same, but the attitude towards it will be different, and for a club like ours, it's a big deal for any coach. You cant find two examples of a club like ours, in a similar context, it's just impossible.

by Babun Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:41 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Immortal Babun wrote:
The Franchise wrote:If you credit Mou for signing great players to help Chelsea and Inter win, you always have to say he didnt sign any young (25 and under) players which can carry them along in the future.

Im sorry, but its true. Its a fair criticism.
He wasn't for longer than 2 years in any of those clubs and each owner expected him to win immediatly. Repeat for x-th time. Maybe, I should make it to my sig?
Mr Nick09 wrote:
Immortal Babun wrote:
What's this BS. Infection? They're just players suited to counter attack system. They developed too big of an ego after Mou's departure. Where is his fault?
You claims become more ridiculious day by day.

Breaking news! Mourinho uses a vodoo doll to jinx the manager who takes over the jobs after him :lol!:

you dont understand. Guys like Lampard, Terry and Drogba have developped a ridiculous bond with Mourinho, a bond that is still very present to this day as they are in contact virtually everyweek. It's not my invention it's a fact. And im also pretty sure that he hasnt developped that kind of bond with our players, certainly not with our captains lol.

And where does it say you cant win straight and sign and then devolp young players? As I have said for the hundredth time.

Not in EPL which is very competitive eco smile

Just look at the teams from that time : Arsenal, Manu and Liverpool were really strong. It's like having 3 Farcas in la liga and to overcome all of them. We didn't win the league with our young players in the first year either. You could achieve it perhaps in the Eredevise or other weak ligs but not in top seeded ones.
For better reference, give me an example of such a manager and don't come with Guardiola who basically got his team on a plate eco smile

by The Franchise Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:46 pm

Such bullcrap. Arsene Wenger did it, Sir Alex did it.

To say you cant win with young players in a big league, or win while having SOME young players to build on later is frankly stupid.

Its not like having 3 Barca's NONE of them were even close to that level, especially the best team of the bunch, Man Utd who were having a down period.

I dont understand why you have to protect Mourinho from every minor criticism, he isnt perfect.

by stunt Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:54 pm

The Franchise wrote:If you credit Mou for signing great players to help Chelsea and Inter win, you always have to say he didnt sign any young (25 and under) players which can carry them along in the future.

Im sorry, but its true. Its a fair criticism.

On the flipside of that coin, you can say he bought young players both at Madrid and at Porto.

by EarlyPrototype Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:57 pm

To answer the OP's question, if Mou leaves within the next 2 seasons then no because the core of the team is very young and Real has the all money it needs to fill in the holes.

by The Franchise Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:03 pm

stunt wrote:
The Franchise wrote:If you credit Mou for signing great players to help Chelsea and Inter win, you always have to say he didnt sign any young (25 and under) players which can carry them along in the future.

Im sorry, but its true. Its a fair criticism.

On the flipside of that coin, you can say he bought young players both at Madrid and at Porto.

Yes and No.

For Porto not really, Deco, Carvalho, Postiga, Costinha, Vitor Baia, Alenichev were all already there before he was coach.

And who from Madrid has he directly signed? Genuine question.

by Adit Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:09 pm

Most of the players.

We gave him more powers on transfers which ended in resignation of Valdano.

Read it with valdano signings of the year Mou came (canales and Pedro leon) immediately left out of the squad.

by The Franchise Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:12 pm

So then as I suspected, yes and no. No for Porto, yes for Madrid. Which is why I think Madrid will be fine once he leaves aslong as the coach isnt totally useless.

by Le Samourai Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:12 pm

Well it's difficult to do anything long term in the PL.

The wage structure vs Italy and Spain was much more attractive and developing youngsters just didn't come naturally.We've seen Wenger suffer from this for god knows how long , he's done a good job maintaining a competitiveness squad but he hasn't won anything with that squad in 7 years for a reason.

It's not realistic anymore to build a team from the ground up in the PL because no one has the patience for it.

Fergie-he has alot more freedom than most managers not really a realistic comparison.Abramovich dumped millions on players Mou didn't even want I don't really think we can compare anyone to Fergie.

He got 5 years leeway to win something, Mou never had that, he would've probably be gone after two seasons if not earlier.

Lastly , not having this argument again....but as far as I'm concerned , you look at his transfers and the way he's structured this squad , he's done an AMAZING job and that's an understatement.

Inter-fine....he didn't develop anything there but whatever why would I care about that.He killed them with Arnautovic,Balotelli, Acquafesca, he did sign guys like Mariga,Muntari,Obinna and he really did make an effort with them but all in all he didn' go out of his way to leave them with a sustainable squad.

Porto sold all their players, it's not his fault.

He did okay at Chelsea, even pretty good.....I mean he gave Robbben the start from Day 1, gave Obi Mikel huge responsibility, as well as Kalou.......all in all , perhaps he couldve done better but he did make an effort to leave them with something of a core.When Abramovich is off spending 40 million on a player you not only didn't need but a player you didn't even want in the first place there's only so much you can do.

He couldve probably done a better job promoting youth products aw well, as he can do with Real Madrid.

by BarcaLearning Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:55 pm

The Franchise wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:So I gathered Porto didnt suffer after Mouinho left...so its not always the case and more coincidence...

Yes, they did. But it wasnt his fault. All the key players left.

Anyway, my guess would be no. They have a young core in place, unlike Inter or Chelsea.

Dani, I like ur Pep avatar much better! Razz

And Im not sure about that Mouinho bonds so much with the Chelsea players....if so he perhaps would sign them over at Inter or Real Razz

Or eventually sign them....but they are getting old as well... and remember the hug with Materazzi trying.... anyone who bonds well with the like of that scum and Terry, well.... can only be so less scum Laughing

by Pedram Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:06 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:So I gathered Porto didnt suffer after Mouinho left...so its not always the case and more coincidence...

Yes, they did. But it wasnt his fault. All the key players left.

Anyway, my guess would be no. They have a young core in place, unlike Inter or Chelsea.

and remember the hug with Materazzi trying.... anyone who bonds well with the like of that scum and Terry, well.... can only be so less scum

Obvious trolling is obvious. :brickwall:

by Mr Nick09 Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:11 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:So I gathered Porto didnt suffer after Mouinho left...so its not always the case and more coincidence...

Yes, they did. But it wasnt his fault. All the key players left.

Anyway, my guess would be no. They have a young core in place, unlike Inter or Chelsea.

Dani, I like ur Pep avatar much better!

And Im not sure about that Mouinho bonds so much with the Chelsea players....if so he perhaps would sign them over at Inter or Real Or eventually sign them....but they are getting old as well... and remember the hug with Materazzi trying.... anyone who bonds well with the like of that scum and Terry, well.... can only be so less scum

who told you that Chelsea and Inter wanted to sell their key player. Ffs it's well documented he has tried to sign many of them, stop talking out of your arse.

by EarlyPrototype Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:16 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:So I gathered Porto didnt suffer after Mouinho left...so its not always the case and more coincidence...

Yes, they did. But it wasnt his fault. All the key players left.

Anyway, my guess would be no. They have a young core in place, unlike Inter or Chelsea.

Dani, I like ur Pep avatar much better!

And Im not sure about that Mouinho bonds so much with the Chelsea players....if so he perhaps would sign them over at Inter or Real Or eventually sign them....but they are getting old as well... and remember the hug with Materazzi trying.... anyone who bonds well with the like of that scum and Terry, well.... can only be so less scum

Have you ever made sense in any of your posts?

by The Franchise Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:25 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:So I gathered Porto didnt suffer after Mouinho left...so its not always the case and more coincidence...

Yes, they did. But it wasnt his fault. All the key players left.

Anyway, my guess would be no. They have a young core in place, unlike Inter or Chelsea.

Dani, I like ur Pep avatar much better!

Since I have had it, out of the last like 6 or 7 lineups Pep has chosen only 1 of them I liked.

by Zealous Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:31 pm

Based on that you should probably have an avatar of something you hate.

Like Ramos. *suggestive wink*

by Le Samourai Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:32 pm

Zealous wrote:Based on that you should probably have an avatar of something you hate.

Like Ramos. *suggestive wink*

Will Real Madrid suffer from the "Mou effect"? - Page 2 Sergio-ramos

by The Franchise Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:36 pm

Zealous wrote:Based on that you should probably have an avatar of something you hate.

Like Ramos. *suggestive wink*

Will Real Madrid suffer from the "Mou effect"? - Page 2 Xavi

by Le Samourai Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:42 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Zealous wrote:Based on that you should probably have an avatar of something you hate.

Like Ramos. *suggestive wink*

[

Will Real Madrid suffer from the "Mou effect"? - Page 2 Kobelol

by Dnmac4 Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:02 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:
What your saying makes no sense at all.

Especially when your dealing with Perez. He fired Del Bosque after winning the CL twice and two Liga's one year after he won the Champions League, exactly what were talking about here.

Not to mention your talking about Perez here. Nothing in his past suggests what your saying AT ALL.

After getting rid of Del Bosque after winning the Champions League twice he went through 5 MANAGERS in 3 YEARS. They didn't get the benefit of the doubt and that's after going through a hugely successful period.

No offense dude but what your suggesting makes no sense at any big club and it makes even less sense at your club especially under it's current management.

In fact I can't think of one time at a big club where expectations are lessened after winning a Champions League and I could give you example after example of what I'm saying.

What you are talking about happened in the early 2000s.

Perez has changed, a lot. He is a different man, but if you cant see that, it's because you are not looking and you only go back as far because it's all you know.

I would be the first to say that he haas changed a lot, and he is more worried about winning and making amends than anything else.

Well, we are not any big club are we. I'm speaking to you from the perspective of a madridista, and i am telling you that winning that Decima will ease a lot of minds in madrid.

I said expectations will be the same, but the attitude towards it will be different, and for a club like ours, it's a big deal for any coach. You cant find two examples of a club like ours, in a similar context, it's just impossible.

Perez has changed a lot?????? What in the world are you talking about?

He broke the transfer record twice over right when he got there and this is him changing?

He basically said he was going to start the "new Galactico" project and hired a very well respected manager in Pellegrini and fired him after one season of not winning anything (sound like something that he's done before?).

Splashed a ton of more cash on Benz (even though he had a young Higgy), bought Ozil for a good price even though he had Kaka, sold Sneijder who was one of the world players of the year for peanuts and again broke the transfer record for Kaka to replace him for no reason what so ever (he even came there injured). Again sold Robben for Peanuts (25 mill) and paid more for Di Maria who at the time was half the player Robben was but he needed "his own Galacticos" so he wasted a bunch of money replacing great players he already had.

Then he went out and bought the most expensive coach in the world and there is already talk of him not making it past this year if he doesn't win the CL and even if he wins the league.

And I will highlight the worst two transfers I have ever seen, selling Wesley Sneijder for 15 mill euros (thats not a joke, yes 15 mill) and replacing him with Kaka for 69 mill Euros (yes thats not a joke either).

He let's his ego get in the way AGAIN and sells great player for less money then they paid for them and replaces them with worse players for 3 times as much because he can't win with Calderon's players. And until Mou gets there and makes good decisions he is the same old Perez. Nothing has changed at all in fact he is worse this time around.

And If Mou doesn't win enough this year he will fire him too, so again what in the hell has changed?

How you thinkhe's done this monumental change just flys against everything that he's actually done. It's like your just ignoring every fact and making something up.

by CBarca Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:28 pm

No they've got too much money and too many good young players, not to mention a good castilla.

Not gonna happen.

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