Will Real Madrid suffer from the "Mou effect"?

No they've got too much money and too many good young players, not to mention a good castilla.

Not gonna happen.

dnmac4 wrote:

Perez has changed a lot?????? What in the world are you talking about?


He let's his ego get in the way AGAIN and sells great player for less money then they paid for them and replaces them with worse players for 3 times as much because he can't win with Calderon's players. And until Mou gets there and makes good decisions he is the same old Perez. Nothing has changed at all in fact he is worse this time around.

And If Mou doesn't win enough this year he will fire him too, so again what in the hell has changed?

How you thinkhe's done this monumental change just flys against everything that he's actually done. It's like your just ignoring every fact and making something up.

Yes Perez has changed, is he the perfect president? of course not, but he has improved.

He broke the transfer record twice over right when he got there and this is him changing?

What does breaking the transfer record has to do with his performance as president? nothing. If anything, you are talking about a business strategy that he has proudly boasted about. Looking at the money they generated, we got those players for free. And who are we talking about here? Zizou and Ronaldo? i may hate the portuguese dancer, but i would sign both many times over.

He basically said he was going to start the "new Galactico" project and hired a very well respected manager in Pellegrini and fired him after one season of not winning anything (sound like something that he's done before?).

I still believe that firing pellegrini was a mistake but the truth is also that pelle was never the coach he wanted, but the coach had to appoint. His first choices did not come through, and after a year he had a chance to appoint the current best manager in football and he did. Right or wrong, it made sense. Did he behaved properly with Pelle? certainly not, but at least he didnt do it to go and sign Queiroz.

Splashed a ton of more cash on Benz (even though he had a young Higgy), bought Ozil for a good price even though he had Kaka, sold Sneijder who was one of the world players of the year for peanuts and again broke the transfer record for Kaka to replace him for no reason what so ever (he even came there injured). Again sold Robben for Peanuts (25 mill) and paid more for Di Maria who at the time was half the player Robben was but he needed "his own Galacticos" so he wasted a bunch of money replacing great players he already had.

Splashed money on benzema because he was worth it. It had nothing to do with Higuain, because the idea was to replace Raul long term. If i recall, both Raul and RVN were playing back then, and the idea was to have Benzema and Higuain moving forward.

Kaka was flopping and unreliable, perfectly understandable, you cant build anything with a guy that plays every 2 months, and is not even that great. at least he sells shirt. If Perez hadnt change as you say, he would have been kicked out by now.

You are only right in that Selling both Sneijder and Robben was a mistake, but when he did it, he replaced them with Kaka and Ronaldo, not Di Maria and Ozil. back then, i doubt you would have held this argument. Replacing Kaka+Ronaldo was a no brainer compared to both Robben and Sneijder whose form was nothing exceptional. No matter how to you try to swing it, Sneijder was not one of the world best player, and neither was Robben, they were excellent players, but they had yet to confirm and to remain consistent with their performances. get your facts straight. It's easy to talk in hindsight after Robben and Sneijder had that wonder season, which they cant even carry ffs. Both are already being marginalized in their own clubs. He never wanted to pay that much money for Di Maria anyway, he only did so because mourinho deemed him as a key piece (which he proved to be), otherwise we would have spent that money on Silva.

Then he went out and bought the most expensive coach in the world and there is already talk of him not making it past this year if he doesn't win the CL and even if he wins the league.

Again, more bullshit really, Perez has been nothing but supportive with Mourinho. It's Mourinho who is talking about leaving and going back to England, NOT Perez. So again, get your facts straight, it's getting ridiculous.

And I will highlight the worst two transfers I have ever seen, selling Wesley Sneijder for 15 mill euros (thats not a joke, yes 15 mill) and replacing him with Kaka for 69 mill Euros (yes thats not a joke either)

Please, stop acting like Sneijder was anything world class with us. he had one good season, then he started partying and playing crap the other. he has yet to follow up on his one season wonder with Inter. And again, another player that pretty much paid for himself, you guys still dont grasp that those high transfers are marketing weapons. truly bad deals are signing the likes of Di Maria or Coentrao for 30+M.

Like i said, he hasnt become an angel, if all you have to hold against him is the fact that he sold sneijder and Robben, then this is a wash. You are completely ignoring the fact that he has restructured the club about a single manager, is giving him space to work, and his publicly putting all his support behind him. He is ready to make a long term commitment with Mourinho for the 4 years going, despite all of what is being said, and maybe more after that. So to me, that's a more important change than swapping one player for another. The leadership is finally willing to remain stable, and there hasnt been any kind of witch hunt within the team to chase under performing players.

This is not an "IF" discussion, he is not willing to fire mou, so you cant construct your argument around a hypothetical situation that will not happen. We are two years running into a new project, and he is pushing the boundaries of anything he has done before. That's a massive improvement, if you refuse to see it, it's maybe because you keep imaging scenarios in which mourinho gets fired. But get back on earth, that's all in your head

The Franchise wrote:

BarcaLearning wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

BarcaLearning wrote:So I gathered Porto didnt suffer after Mouinho left...so its not always the case and more coincidence...

Yes, they did. But it wasnt his fault. All the key players left.

Anyway, my guess would be no. They have a young core in place, unlike Inter or Chelsea.

Dani, I like ur Pep avatar much better!

Since I have had it, out of the last like 6 or 7 lineups Pep has chosen only 1 of them I liked.

Superstitions

Mr Nick09 wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

Perez has changed a lot?????? What in the world are you talking about?


He let's his ego get in the way AGAIN and sells great player for less money then they paid for them and replaces them with worse players for 3 times as much because he can't win with Calderon's players. And until Mou gets there and makes good decisions he is the same old Perez. Nothing has changed at all in fact he is worse this time around.

And If Mou doesn't win enough this year he will fire him too, so again what in the hell has changed?

How you thinkhe's done this monumental change just flys against everything that he's actually done. It's like your just ignoring every fact and making something up.

Yes Perez has changed, is he the perfect president? of course not, but he has improved.

He broke the transfer record twice over right when he got there and this is him changing?

What does breaking the transfer record has to do with his performance as president? nothing. If anything, you are talking about a business strategy that he has proudly boasted about. Looking at the money they generated, we got those players for free. And who are we talking about here? Zizou and Ronaldo? i may hate the portuguese dancer, but i would sign both many times over.

He basically said he was going to start the "new Galactico" project and hired a very well respected manager in Pellegrini and fired him after one season of not winning anything (sound like something that he's done before?).

I still believe that firing pellegrini was a mistake but the truth is also that pelle was never the coach he wanted, but the coach had to appoint. His first choices did not come through, and after a year he had a chance to appoint the current best manager in football and he did. Right or wrong, it made sense. Did he behaved properly with Pelle? certainly not, but at least he didnt do it to go and sign Queiroz.

Splashed a ton of more cash on Benz (even though he had a young Higgy), bought Ozil for a good price even though he had Kaka, sold Sneijder who was one of the world players of the year for peanuts and again broke the transfer record for Kaka to replace him for no reason what so ever (he even came there injured). Again sold Robben for Peanuts (25 mill) and paid more for Di Maria who at the time was half the player Robben was but he needed "his own Galacticos" so he wasted a bunch of money replacing great players he already had.

Splashed money on benzema because he was worth it. It had nothing to do with Higuain, because the idea was to replace Raul long term. If i recall, both Raul and RVN were playing back then, and the idea was to have Benzema and Higuain moving forward.

Kaka was flopping and unreliable, perfectly understandable, you cant build anything with a guy that plays every 2 months, and is not even that great. at least he sells shirt. If Perez hadnt change as you say, he would have been kicked out by now.

You are only right in that Selling both Sneijder and Robben was a mistake, but when he did it, he replaced them with Kaka and Ronaldo, not Di Maria and Ozil. back then, i doubt you would have held this argument. Replacing Kaka+Ronaldo was a no brainer compared to both Robben and Sneijder whose form was nothing exceptional. get your facts straight. It's easy to talk in hindsight after Robben and Sneijder had a wonder season, which they cant even carry ffs. Both are already being marginalized in their own clubs.

Then he went out and bought the most expensive coach in the world and there is already talk of him not making it past this year if he doesn't win the CL and even if he wins the league.

Again, more bullshit really, Perez has been nothing but supportive with Mourinho. It's Mourinho who is talking about leaving and going back to England, NOT Perez. So again, get your facts straight, it's getting ridiculous.

And I will highlight the worst two transfers I have ever seen, selling Wesley Sneijder for 15 mill euros (thats not a joke, yes 15 mill) and replacing him with Kaka for 69 mill Euros (yes thats not a joke either)

Please, stop acting like Sneijder was anything world class with us. he had one good season, then he started partying and playing crap the other. he has yet to follow up on his one season wonder with Inter. And again, another player that pretty much paid for himself, you guys still dont grasp that those high transfers are marketing weapons. truly bad deals are signing the likes of Di Maria or Coentrao for 30+M.

Like i said, he hasnt become an angel, if all you have to hold against him is the fact that he sold sneijder and Robben, then this is a wash. You are completely ignoring the fact that he has restructured the club about a single manager, is giving him space to work, and his publicly putting all his support behind him. He is ready to make a long term commitment with Mourinho for the 4 years going, despite all of what is being said, and maybe more after that. So to me, that's a more important change than swapping one player for another. The leadership is finally willing to remain stable, and there hasnt been any kind of witch hunt within the team to chase under performing players.

This is not an "IF" discussion, he is not willing to fire mou, so you cant construct your argument around a hypothetical situation that will not happen. We are two years running into a new project, and he is pushing the boundaries of anything he has done before. That's a massive improvement, if you refuse to see it, it's maybe because you keep imaging scenarios in which mourinho gets fired. But get back on earth, that's all in your head

Dude, I don't know why your taking the time to argue against anything I have said as they are all facts. There is nothing to argue about.

Your supposed to be telling me how Perez is this changed man and you can't find anything to back that up.

You even said he bought Benz because he wanted it to be like the Galacticos with Raul and RVN. And that I'm arguing against a business strategy, yes I am HIS business strategy that he is following all over again.

Buying the best players in the world and burning through coach's, again NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

HE is doing the exact same thing so again I don't know why you keep saying he is this changed man and then give no facts to support that.

And your also just assuming if Real win the CL and Mou leaves that the pressure will be lessened on the next coach when everything in Perez and Madrid's history says otherwise. Actually everything in football history says otherwise so again I don't know where your getting this stuff?

And also you have the nerve to Sneijder had one good season then he's been crap.

Well what has Kaka been if Sneijder has been crap?

And this is a guy you sold for 15 mill and replaced him with Kaka for 69 mill and now Sneijder is worth anywhere between 30-40 mill.

I think you need to rag on Kaka not Sneijder and yes Sneijder and Robben were very good players while at Madrid, hell I remember Madrid fans saying Robben was just as good as Messi when he was there so don't try and act like they sucked while at Madrid and came out of nowhere when they left. Everyone knew how good they were except Perez of course.

But it wouldn't matter if Perez did know how good they were, he would have to replace them anyways because he didn't buy them and his massive ego which is STILL IN FULL FORCE just like before wouldn't let him win with Calderon's players.

I think Perez has changed to a degree, the first time around he wouldnt of signed someone like Khedira.

He threw Makelele out because he cant pass it more than 5m, imagine what he would of thought of Sami who has enough trouble controlling the ball and he plays significantly higher up the pitch.

Perez has not changed, he has simply allowed Mourinho to take full control because there are no better options available. I'm sure if Mourinho didn't force his way into power then there would still be some ridiculous signings.

dnmac4 wrote:
Dude, I don't know why your taking the time to argue against anything I have said as they are all facts. There is nothing to argue about.

Your supposed to be telling me how Perez is this changed man and you can't find anything to back that up.

You even said he bought Benz because he wanted it to be like the Galacticos with Raul and RVN. And that I'm arguing against a business strategy, yes I am HIS business strategy that he is following all over again.

Buying the best players in the world and burning through coach's, again NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

HE is doing the exact same thing so again I don't know why you keep saying he is this changed man and then give no facts to support that.

And your also just assuming if Real win the CL and Mou leaves that the pressure will be lessened on the next coach when everything in Perez and Madrid's history says otherwise. Actually everything in football history says otherwise so again I don't know where your getting this stuff?

And also you have the nerve to Sneijder had one good season then he's been crap.

Well what has Kaka been if Sneijder has been crap?

And this is a guy you sold for 15 mill and replaced him with Kaka for 69 mill and now Sneijder is worth anywhere between 30-40 mill.

I think you need to rag on Kaka not Sneijder and yes Sneijder and Robben were very good players while at Madrid, hell I remember Madrid fans saying Robben was just as good as Messi when he was there so don't try and act like they sucked while at Madrid and came out of nowhere when they left. Everyone knew how good they were except Perez of course.

But it wouldn't matter if Perez did know how good they were, he would have to replace them anyways because he didn't buy them and his massive ego which is STILL IN FULL FORCE just like before wouldn't let him win with Calderon's players.

Saying that we wasted money on benzema because we had higuain on the bench (assuming that we wanted to replace him) is not a fact , it's an invention. I dispute the arguments you put forward to claim that he hasnt changed because they are wrong for the most part.

For starters, just with the signings, he tried to provide some balance by signing forwards, defenders, and midfielders, not just a random set of attackers that have no chemistry together whatsoever.

Sticking with a coach for more than a season and showing full commitment to a long term project means he has changed. If he was truly the same, he would have canned mourinho for that manita last season.

How can you even dispute that? Change doesnt mean that he has become the world best president, but he improved on his ways. There is nothing wrong with signings the world best players as long as you are willing to build a sporting project which he is doing, and look how it's working.

And again, YES, there will be less pressure if Mourinho wins the CL and happens to leave. The environment in which a new coach would work will be a lot more favorable than it was for the ones that came before him. not only from a press stand point because winning la decima means that much for madridistas, but also from a management standpoint because it's a very big milestone for the club. This obsessive and wasteful path on which we have been for almost a decade is the direct result of a sick obsession with winning a 10th CL. Even Mourinho recognized that much, and the first thing he said when he arrived was, "people shouldnt be obsessed with the CL, we will work to get there, but it shouldnt be an obsession." I dont even know why i am trying to argue this with you. I am giving you a fan perspective, and all you do is trying to generalize and predict doom for us as you so often do. frankly, take it or leave it, you asked i answered, i'm not interested in convincing you, i am confident i know my club enough to know that there will be a rather important shift.

If you theory was true, he would have broken the transfer window again last summer, but guess what? we didnt. that's a fact too. You are only arguing out of the fact that he swapped Calderon's players for his own crop. But guess what? that was almost 3 years ago. Your arguments dont go any further than that because you have nothing to argue about, yet you claim he is "still" the same ego maniac. How come you cant use recent history, going back a year to highlight how dreadful of a person he is still? well, i guess it's only because you have no example to go back to, and you have to dig that far. In order to convince anyone that he is still the same person, you better come up with something recent, otherwise anything you say to characterize the person that he is NOW using arguments from 3 years ago, is absolute and complete rubbish.

No, because Mourinho isn't doing anything special.

i just hope the players stay professional after mou leaves and stay unified,plus keep this system or better, and dont go back to the pelle days and the like, just headless chickens out shooting every team every week, capelo madrid was disciplined but not attractive, it feels good to not worry about the team anymore, even if we wasn't in first atm

are you kidding me? sneijder was definitely a one season wonder at madrid


he was terrible in his second season, robben hardly played in his first season. yes he was good for us in the second but always became mehh in important matches including the cl and clasico..

look at sneijder and robben underperforming after their respective first seasons, injuries have played big part yes but that was sort of the reason we sold them - their injury prone ness..

Both the Sneijder and Robben sales were idiotic.

No denying it.

But they were done within reason with an objective in mind, and an objective I think has materialized very well.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Yeah, use the search function, we have done that already.

short answer no. the OP has too many cliches to be honest, Chelsea didnt really suffer, and inter was already over the edge.

They look like they're suffering now huh?

Albiceleste wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Yeah, use the search function, we have done that already.

short answer no. the OP has too many cliches to be honest, Chelsea didnt really suffer, and inter was already over the edge.

They look like they're suffering now huh?

5 years later? really, you bumped it up for that? we were talking about immediate impact, Chelsea wasnt that bad off back then

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Yeah, use the search function, we have done that already.

short answer no. the OP has too many cliches to be honest, Chelsea didnt really suffer, and inter was already over the edge.

They look like they're suffering now huh?

5 years later? really, you bumped it up for that? we were talking about immediate impact, Chelsea wasnt that bad off back then

Hard to find a replacement for Mou it seems

I bumped it because AVB has been sacked which adds to the list of managers that Chelsea have gone through since Mou which further hints at a Mou effect

I never fail to be astounded to see people blaming Mou for Chelsea being in turmoil 5 years after he left.Every manager that passed through that tourist attraction had the chance to do something.....but people still want to blame Mourinhio.....why not Ancelloti or Scolari or whoever else.

Mourinhio getting blamed for Chelsea's difficulties 5 years later after he was forced out by a proven lunatic , because what? Chelsea weren't looking like winning the league that year? what was it October? SMH.

Mourinhio getting blamed for being the only one who did his job consistently well long enough to possibly have an impact.

Seems like a rational theory.

Chelsea isn't suffering from a Mou effect it's suffering from asshole player effect.

If the players had not forced the sacking of so many coaches Chelsea would be in a far better position.

Inter Milan he was sucking that baby dry for all it had left, it was an old team that gave its last big performance. They never bothered top rebuild the team afterwards. Mou knew it was a sinking ship and bailed like anyone else with half a brain would have.

Porto sold all its major stars after Jose left, so they were never going to go anywhere. Plus it's Porto.

Real Madrid is the first team he's coached with young stars and a huge future in front of it. A team with unlimited resources and who is willing to spend no matter what.

He learnt from previous mistakes and made sure the player power in the locker room was gone (ie Guti and Raul). He has built up the youngest squad in Europe and one of the most talented. I doubt we would suffer from any effect caused by Jose leaving other than the fact we would be downgrading, because as I believe it there is no better in the business today than Mourinho.

Albiceleste wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Yeah, use the search function, we have done that already.

short answer no. the OP has too many cliches to be honest, Chelsea didnt really suffer, and inter was already over the edge.

They look like they're suffering now huh?

5 years later? really, you bumped it up for that? we were talking about immediate impact, Chelsea wasnt that bad off back then

Hard to find a replacement for Mou it seems

I bumped it because AVB has been sacked which adds to the list of managers that Chelsea have gone through since Mou which further hints at a Mou effect

Hard? no, but when you have a terrible owner, then all bets are off.

Ancelotti was perfect for them, yet he got the sack.

Le Samourai wrote:I never fail to be astounded to see people blaming Mou for Chelsea being in turmoil 5 years after he left.Every manager that passed through that tourist attraction had the chance to do something.....but people still want to blame Mourinhio.....why not Ancelloti or Scolari or whoever else.

Mourinhio getting blamed for Chelsea's difficulties 5 years later after he was forced out by a proven lunatic , because what? Chelsea weren't looking like winning the league that year? what was it October? SMH.

Mourinhio getting blamed for being the only one who did his job consistently well long enough to possibly have an impact.

Seems like a rational theory.

Completely agree. It is the 'proven lunatic' people should be concerned about, not some kind of post-Mourinho power-vacuum.

Mourinho has nothing to do with an owner who seems hell bent on not learning from his mistakes and a group of players who I believe should just manage the team and be done with it since they seem to feel they know better. Nor is he responsible for what is going on at Inter.

As for the other conversation about Perez, I'm not his wife nor his lawyer so I can't say if he changed or not but it is obvious he is willing to learn from his mistakes. Selling Sneijder to replace him with Kaka was just bad (buying Kaka on whole was bad) but I had no qualms with selling Robben...

Makelele autobiography: “I thought Mourinho was practically untouchable, but a lot of players had complained about him, notably John Terry."

"When Terry let his discontent known to Kenyon & asked him for an immediate transfer, Abramovich reacted immediately"

"The departure of Terry was totally unimaginable so Mourinho was asked to pack his bags.”

:vagi:

So.....who is a good enough coach for John Terry?

The Franchise wrote:So.....who is a good enough coach for John Terry?

The only coach good enough for John Terry. Is John Terry.

The Franchise wrote:So.....who is a good enough coach for John Terry?

Lampard or Drogba or he could coach himself, tell himself he isn't playing the team properly and subsequently get himself fired for complaining to upper management about himself treating himself poorly...

Anton Ferdinand could do a stand up job :vagi:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Yeah, use the search function, we have done that already.

short answer no. the OP has too many cliches to be honest, Chelsea didnt really suffer, and inter was already over the edge.

They look like they're suffering now huh?

5 years later? really, you bumped it up for that? we were talking about immediate impact, Chelsea wasnt that bad off back then

Hard to find a replacement for Mou it seems

I bumped it because AVB has been sacked which adds to the list of managers that Chelsea have gone through since Mou which further hints at a Mou effect

Hard? no, but when you have a terrible owner, then all bets are off.

Ancelotti was perfect for them, yet he got the sack.

Nick why do u he was perfect? And then failed after the double?

This is talking about old stuff, but I never really quite figured out why Chelsea failed so badly after winning the double? Only explanation was players got lazy after winning success....

Zealous wrote:Makelele autobiography: “I thought Mourinho was practically untouchable, but a lot of players had complained about him, notably John Terry."

"When Terry let his discontent known to Kenyon & asked him for an immediate transfer, Abramovich reacted immediately"

"The departure of Terry was totally unimaginable so Mourinho was asked to pack his bags.”

:vagi:

Wow, Its criminal for the Chelsea players if they really have THAT much power....I doubt its that bad? Terry was only like 26 back then.... crazy...