Uefa Coefficients aside, should Serie A be handed back it's 4th spot?

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Uefa Coefficients aside, should Serie A be handed back it's 4th spot? Empty Uefa Coefficients aside, should Serie A be handed back it's 4th spot?

Post by St.JamesNicaragua Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:11 am

You know the thing about the coefficient system Uefa has created. I have nothing against, i actually think it's a logical and fair system to other smaller leagues to become better. While there are still some areas of that system needs to be more fair, like teams progressing to quarterfinals, semifinals, final of CL should get at least one more point than the same progression in the EL. But that's a topic for another day.

According to Uefa coefficient Serie A is the 4th best league in Europe, closely followed by the French and Portuguese ones.

But Coefficient system aside, it's a damn shame that Uefa took the spot away from Serie A. Not only they hurt the Italian teams, but they also hurt the quality of Champions League in many coming years.

Next year Champions League will most likely miss out on CHAMPIONS quality in sides like Inter, Roma, Napoli. All teams which can easily compete with the best teams in the world, who will be in their place instead?

some small teams getting trashed 4-0 ever second game and not making it past the groupstage.

Serie A seems to be the most exciting league in the world this season, at least, if you look at the league tables.

Serie A constantly send inexerperienced teams to the Champions League, and they show some amazing football and good results, like Fiorentina, and Napoli in the past seasons both of whom eliminated big sides in tight groups. Then you got the ''Big 3'' of Juventus, Milan and Inter, all teams who can compete for the title of Champions League. Then there is Roma, who is not considered in the same level as the ''Big 3'' but just closely behind as the 4th biggest team of Italy, they play some amazing football and can go very far in the Champions League. then you got teams like Udinese who this season played on par with Arsenal despite being eliminated in qualifying rounds of CL to Arsenal.

So with all this said, Serie A is a league containing world class quality players, and teams, yet Uefa coefficients system stupidly took away the 4th spot.

With Milan destroying Arsenal 4-0, probably their heaviest defeat in Europe ever, and Napoli also within a chance of eliminating Chelsea, and Inter being favourites to send out Marseille, Serie A may yet again be the only league with 3 teams in the quarterfinals, with leagues having more CL tickets ei. LaLiga, EPL, BL all 4 spots, yet only 2,0, and 1 teams in the quarterfinals....

I call for an unfair system, and Uefa needs to correct something here. Serie A is the best league in Europe this season, if you look competitiveness, and overall squad quality. And this quality is also showing it self in Europe with performances from Napoli and the likes.

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Post by maruf063 Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:25 am

totally agreed... i'm a die hard serie a fan, but those smaller serie a team doesn't give a damn about the EL ... they should change their mentality first hmm

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Post by Forza Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:42 am

Can't agree more, EL and CL results should be judged separately. It's a market system, if there is not much money on offer for the EL, that is UEFA's fault and they need to fix it by offering more money to clubs that do well in that competition. In this system, the teams trying to get into the CL suffer because of the results of different clubs in the EL.
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Post by dronte Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:58 am

Completely agree. Sadly, everyone knows the coefficient system with EL involved is plain retarded but it's still there.

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Post by rwo power Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:10 am

Well, in my opinion, Spain would nicely do with 3 CL spots. I don't begrudge Italy a 4th spot unless it is at the expense of Germany. Razz

St.JamesNicaragua wrote: BL all 4 spots, yet only 2,0, and 1 teams in the quarterfinals....
This is a fallacity. The BL only had 3 teams in the CL this season (2+1 spots), so 2 of 3 makes 66% going through to the last 16, while England, Spain and Italy had 3+1 starters. 2 of 4 remaining in the last 16 of the CL means Spain and England only got 50% through each.

If the general prognoses stand, then 75% of the Italian teams will come through to QF (or 50%), 50% of the Spanish teams, 33% of the German teams and 25% (or 0%) of the English teams. So you can't say the German run is worse than for ex the English run.

Moreover, both the English and Spanish teams had (on paper) solvable tasks to go to the Last 16, while Leverkusen running into Barca in the Last 16 was more or less bad luck and instant death (ask about everybody in the forum - the mere thought that any team has a chance against Barca - bar maybe Real - is thought as preposterous), so that draw was indeed plain bad luck. Very Happy
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Post by che Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:39 pm

St.JamesNicaragua wrote:
Next year Champions League will most likely miss out on CHAMPIONS quality in sides like Inter, Roma, Napoli. All teams which can easily compete with the best teams in the world, who will be in their place instead?

how exactly can inter, roma and napoli compete with the best in the world if they're barely top 5 in their own league?

what needs to change isn't the coefficient system, it's the snobbish attitude of people who think that league x is entitled to more cl spots because they have historically big teams

on a semi-related note, i find it very amusing that people who brag about how many european cups their club has won complain about the quality of teams from crappy leagues admitted into the cl Laughing
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Post by Sushi Master Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:43 pm

No, because Serie A teams have been half assed in Europe. Apart from Milan and that Inter CL a few years ago, they haven't been doing that well over the years. You can't base results on just 1 season, else English teams would only need 2 CL spots due to their shitty displays.

Also take into account Udinese could have qualified if it weren't for Arsenal. Don't think they would have gotten very far with their bench, anyways.
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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:45 pm

St.JamesNicaragua wrote:
With Milan destroying Arsenal 4-0, probably their heaviest defeat in Europe ever, and Napoli also within a chance of eliminating Chelsea, and Inter being favourites to send out Marseille, Serie A may yet again be the only league with 3 teams in the quarterfinals, with leagues having more CL tickets ei. LaLiga, EPL, BL all 4 spots, yet only 2,0, and 1 teams in the quarterfinals....

I call for an unfair system, and Uefa needs to correct something here. Serie A is the best league in Europe this season, if you look competitiveness, and overall squad quality. And this quality is also showing it self in Europe with performances from Napoli and the likes.

you dont show any respect??? we haven't even played yet neither have Bayern or Chelsea... muppet

and no you haven't got the most competitive in Europe take a look at other leagues for a chance and then come back

just because Milan won doesn't mean your league is good, heck most of your lovely Italian teams didn't even reach the knock-out stages of the EL ffs

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Post by S Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:56 pm

This is how the points awarding system is structured and other leagues have capitalized on it whilst Serie A has stayed behind.

Bundesliga have earned the 4th spot based on their merits and rightfully so.

And no we shouldnt be awarded 4th place back.Bar Inter in 09-10 Serie A teams Perfomances have been mediocre in the CL like Sushi said and i agree with che, If you cant finish in CL places in your own league no matter how good your team is on paper or how well the team has historically performed in the Tournament you dont deserve a place in the Champions League.

If anything they should *bleep* wake up now and take the EL more seriously.That is the only way we can claw back and earn that 4th spot.Although awarding an extra point over EL for progressing in the cl knockout rounds would help.

I hope Inter do Serie A proud in the Europa League next season :coffee:
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Post by Sushi Master Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:59 pm

Juve's downfall has also cost Serie A dearly, since they are one of the only few "stable" teams, historically. They have the money, prestige and currently, the manager to make stability happen.

Udinese, Napoli, Roma and co. are all good teams, but they are far too unstable for decent CL runs. Well, Napoli is not out yet so we'll see, I rate them highly.

So pretty much the future of Serie A lies in Juventus qualifying for CL :lucas:

Yeah, and the rest giving a shit about the EL. Vibe to guide Inter to EL glory :bow:
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Post by Doc Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:04 pm

I don't know how Serie A is the best league this season. Your teams sucked ass in Europa, only Lazio showed something and they would probably get beaten by Atletico. Milan got a fantastic result against Arsenal but you're counting your chickens before they hatch man.

Napoli and Inter can be knocked out just as easy as they could go through.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:07 pm

Doc wrote:I don't know how Serie A is the best league this season. Your teams sucked ass in Europa, only Lazio showed something and they would probably get beaten by Atletico. Milan got a fantastic result against Arsenal but you're counting your chickens before they hatch man.

Napoli and Inter can be knocked out just as easy as they could go through.


Udinese done enough to qualify with mainly their B team. When they didn't put out a completely terrible team they beat Atletico. Lazio are also through. Roma were a completely new side and didn't qualify. What is this myth that this season the Italian teams failed in the Europa league all about?
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Post by Adit Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:15 pm

Whats the problem?


Serie A teams sucked in Europe in past season as a whole hence they lost 4th spot.


Serie A teams are doing well from this year onward so they will get their 4th spot back soon.

Seems like a fair system to me.


Why should serie a get back a spot all of a sudden when they lost the spot over a whole 4 years period?
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:30 pm

Also I strongly dispute the likes of Roma, Napoli, Udinese, hell, even Juve being vastly superior to the likes of Neverkusen, Schalke and Dortmund.

In fact the only point I'd concede is that Serie A have two teams that might challenge for the title in Milan and Inter, while the Bundesliga reasonably only has Bayern. At least for now.

Juve might come back, but Dortmund isn't likely to lose any more key players. So... Meh, I kinda agree with RWO, just take a CL spot off the Spanish :coffee:
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Post by maruf063 Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:05 am

lazio already lost to athletico at home :bow:

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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:08 am

Utter disgrace that this ever happened.

The only team that matters in Bundesliga is Bayern Munich, yet alone giving them a fourth team.

Seria A has top teams all around.

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Post by la bestia negra Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:12 am

i can assure you guys a german tem will reach the final in the next three years


not bayern
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Post by McLewis Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:39 am

Our "top" teams got routinely trounced just about every season leading up to the loss of the 4th place.

If Serie A want that spot back, they have to earn it like the Germans did. I see nothing wrong with 3 spots right now.
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Post by Seth Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:08 am

The only issue I had with the coefficients are that equal points were given for both CL & EL matches.

Although with that said, in the past EPL team never do exceptionally well at EL anyway, but they still managed to keep their 4 CL spot for their performance in CL.

If Serie A wants to claim back their 4th spot, then the CL participants have to step up their game. Getting All-Italian finals this year(or the year after, or the year after that) is a good step to that. Imagine Milan derby in the CL final Very Happy I know that sounded unrealistic, but one man can dream eh?


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Post by rwo power Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:59 am

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:The only team that matters in Bundesliga is Bayern Munich, yet alone giving them a fourth team.

Seria A has top teams all around.
Well, obviously the Serie A top teams collected less points than the not mattering BL teams, so one stands to wonder if the assumption that the Italian teams are indeed so top isn't somewhat questionable.
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Post by BiasedMilanFan3 Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:20 am

Determining which teams are better out of the Serie A and Bundesliga isn't simply a matter of UEFA coefficient points.

Its about the quality and history of the teams and players.

Serie A wins.
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Post by rwo power Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:22 am

History doesn't win you matches and on paper class of players doesn't, either. Razz
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Post by Forza Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:27 am

Some interesting records...

Last time a Spanish team apart from Barca won the CL: 2001/02 R. Madrid

Last time a Spanish team apart from Barca or R. Madrid won the CL: NEVER

---

Last time a German team won the CL: 2000/01 Bayern

Last time a German team apart from Bayern won the CL: 1996/97 Dortmund

---

Last time an Italian team won the CL: 2009/10 Inter

Last time an Italian team apart from Inter won the CL: 2006/07 Milan

---

CL's won in the last 5 years:

Spain 2 (Barca 2)

Italy 2 (Inter, Milan)

England 1 (Man U)

Germany NONE

---

CL's won in the last 10 years:

Spain 4 (Barca 3, R. Madrid)

Italy 3 (Inter, Milan 2)

England 2 (Man U, Liverpool)

Portugal 1 (Porto)

Germany NONE

---

It's these records that seriously makes me doubt Germany's relevance in Europe and the relevance of La Liga teams other than Barca and Real Madrid.
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Post by BiasedMilanFan3 Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:31 am

Well at the moment, I reckon Serie A has better teams and players than Bundesliga

I don't mean to come across as ignorant but Bayern is the only big Bundesliga team at the moment. Dortmund are close but they don't have that persona that Munich has. Whereas Serie A has Milan, Juve, Inter and Napoli. While other teams like Lazio and Udinese are on par or arguably superior to most Bundesliga teams.
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Post by BiasedMilanFan3 Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:36 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:Some interesting records...

Last time a Spanish team apart from Barca won the CL: 2001/02 R. Madrid

Last time a Spanish team apart from Barca or R. Madrid won the CL: NEVER

---

Last time a German team won the CL: 2000/01 Bayern

Last time a German team apart from Bayern won the CL: 1996/97 Dortmund

---

Last time an Italian team won the CL: 2009/10 Inter

Last time an Italian team apart from Inter won the CL: 2006/07 Milan

---

CL's won in the last 5 years:

Spain 2 (Barca 2)

Italy 2 (Inter, Milan)

England 1 (Man U)

Germany NONE

---

CL's won in the last 10 years:

Spain 4 (Barca 3, R. Madrid)

Italy 3 (Inter, Milan 2)

England 2 (Man U, Liverpool)

Portugal 1 (Porto)

Germany NONE

---

It's these records that seriously makes me doubt Germany's relevance in Europe and the relevance of La Liga teams other than Barca and Real Madrid.

Comparing the Bundesliga to the Premier League, Serie A and La Liga is not a debate. Bundesliga are DEFINITELY not superior to any of these leagues, whether we're going back 20 years or 20 minutes for data
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