Nuri Sahin - Borussia Dortmund #18

ynwa wrote:No one is defending Commolli's transfers, but it's annoying as f*ck when every transfer target for us is dubbed "overpriced" because Commolli (who was sacked) screwed up two windows on average players. He's not here anymore.

We've only signed one "British" player under Rodgers though. No one is defending Commolli's signings.

If things had been kept in the spirit of discussion, the signings would never have been brought up, Commolli or otherwise.

If somebody calls my opinion 'deluded', I have a right to defend it. Simple as that.

Lets rewind to where this started.

I ask for an explanation of 'reported 5 million plus 14 million' for a midfielder while you have many, while there is no news on other areas like forwards.
I am called 'deluded'.
I say watch what you type, because Liverpool have been known to have a transfer market profligacy.
Red explains the midfielder situation. BG (or someone) explains the reduction in wages by 300k p/w and Dempsey/another striker.

All other arguments, including the pulling up of transfer fees and signings of other clubs, are irrelevant to this thread and my original question - and show an overwhelming sense of defensiveness from Liverpool fans. I can understand that I pissed you guys off at some point and you wanted to jump in defense of your club, and I would do the same if it was Arsenal. But is my comments are 'deluded' then why the *bleep* do you care anyway.

Anyway. I hope this concludes this topic. I wait eagerly to hear further on Sahin now.

Let me start by saying I'm in a rush so apologies if it doesn't make sense. Rushing through it, so I doubt I'll re-read what I wrote.

First of all, I never called you or your posts deluded. Want to make that clear. It may have been a misunderstanding. I mean, I saw your post saying "I hope you don't spend 30m on those players" as taking the piss and thought you were another LFC hater as I havn't seen you post so I don't really know you.

It's quite clear that Commolli was bad in the market. But the fact is that he's gone now (as is Kenny) and Rodgers is now in charge. Rodgers shouldn't be criticized for signing Allen for 15m because Commolli screwed up our last two windows on average British players. I merely compared him to Chamberlain. There was no harm in it.

You also stated that we were paying over the top for Sahin basing it on rumours - "reportedly" is still not a fact. I then said that what Red wrote was a good post and I continued to add to his post. I did not say that you called Sahin a bad signing, so please don't put words in my mouth.

Anyway. I got to go. Been fun.

Oh and quickly, and Arsenal wasn’t really compared in terms of transfers. That was more for external factors, nothing to do with transfers. Newcastle was used as an exception in being smart in the market – not really compared to any of our signings. If anything, we’re criticizing ourselves.

ynwa wrote:

Let me start by saying I'm in a rush so apologies if it doesn't make sense. Rushing through it, so I doubt I'll re-read what I wrote.

First of all, I never called you or your posts deluded. Want to make that clear. It may have been a misunderstanding. I mean, I saw your post saying "I hope you don't spend 30m on those players" as taking the piss and thought you were another LFC hater as I havn't seen you post so I don't really know you.

You didn't, refer earlier posts in the thread. The comment about delusions sparked off the debate. I didn't say it was you.

Not a Pool hater, also mentioned this earlier in the thread. If anything, I want Pool to be back in the top 4 and CL - mentioned this earlier too.

Yes, I have only recently been cajoled into posting in the GS - I stick to Arsenal section where there is much less BS to digest usually.

ynwa wrote:
It's quite clear that Commolli was bad in the market. But the fact is that he's gone now (as is Kenny) and Rodgers is now in charge. Rodgers shouldn't be criticized for signing Allen for 15m because Commolli screwed up our last two windows on average British players. I merely compared him to Chamberlain. There was no harm in it.

Again, I didn't criticize BR. I was hoping Kenny would do the job, but was left disappointed. I would never want to see a day when we hire and fire a legend like Henry or Tony Adams in one year. I am undecided on BR but first signs, before West Brom, have been positive. Transfer activity has not been too positive imo - already discussed earlier.

ynwa wrote:
You also stated that we were paying over the top for Sahin basing it on rumours - "reportedly" is still not a fact. I then said that what Red wrote was a good post and I continued to add to his post. I did not say that you called Sahin a bad signing, so please don't put words in my mouth.

I never said it was a fact. And I repeat, I never questioned the investment in Sahin, assuming it is made. I questioned the lack of such intense activity in addressing other areas with barely a week left.

ynwa wrote:

Anyway. I got to go. Been fun.

Oh and quickly, and Arsenal wasn’t really compared in terms of transfers. That was more for external factors, nothing to do with transfers. Newcastle was used as an exception in being smart in the market – not really compared to any of our signings. If anything, we’re criticizing ourselves.

Again, the comparison was irrelevant, no matter what the reason. My original question was directed at Liverpool, not how it compared with other clubs. Liverpool fans criticizing themselves is not a sight I am used to seeing either - you lot are very very defensive (not just in GL).

Not bad at all. In fact great first-team. Not sure about depth but if Liverpool don't have injury problems they might even content for Top4.

back to topic please

urbaNRoots wrote:

Reina
Johnson Skrtel Agger Enrique
Lucas
Allen Sahin
Gerrard Borini Suarez

Not bad at all. In fact great first-team. Not sure about depth but if Liverpool don't have injury problems they might even content for Top4.

Content for top 4? With Borini as main striker and Gerrard as RW?
Sure...

This is a good move. Hopefully Sahin can develop his game enough to be a important player at Madrid in the future.

somehow i have a feeling that Sahin trolls everyone and signs with the Spurs...

Allen isn't worth 15m for me and that's based on his pure ability as a player not comparing any transfer.

You can compare any transfer and give an argument of why he's worth this an that etc....

Anyway as for Liverpool the midfield is strong( as is practically every midfield in the top 7) but the problem from last season is still there, the attack lacks goals and that's where i see the problems arising.

I'm happy Sahin joined them rather than Arsenal though, i'd rather play against Lucas-Sahin-Allen than Arteta-Sahin-Cazorla if i'm honest.

Lucas-Sahin > Tiote-Cabaye.

"We hope that will be complete. I believe from the club that everything has been organised and sorted in terms of paperwork. So we're hoping in the next 24 hours it can be done"

- Brendan Rogers on the Sahin deal.

i still don't understand... why liverpool? why not arsenal

Real Kandahar wrote:i still don't understand... why liverpool? why not arsenal

Because Arsenal wanted a buy-option, and Real only want to loan him, atleast that's what i think

that's correct

Liverpool were willing to pay more in wages, and were willing to work with or without a buy-out clause at the end of the loan and were flexible on the value..

Neither Sahin nor Madrid were happy with Arsenal's insistence on the (supposed) £14m buy-out clause and so opted for Liverpool's offer.

so if that is all true, people's condemnation of mourinho for not realizing a talent and selling him off has no basis, since only reason i think that is forcing mourinho to do this is Sahin's past injuries and Alonso's unshakable spot in starting 11.

No.

Alonso is never going to be an excuse. He played way too many games last year.

Mourinhio refused to give him playing time because he prefers play Alonso every minute of every game to me does not give him an excuse for essentially cutting Sahin from the team last year , when a player like him was at leastnin the vicinity of what we were desperately lacking.

Then playing him at left back , while Lass and Khedira play in midfield in pre season is just disrespectful, especially after he embaraased them himself with Castilla around him.

Le Samourai wrote:No.

Alonso is never going to be an excuse. He played way too many games last year.

Mourinhio refused to give him playing time because he prefers play Alonso every minute of every game to me does not give him an excuse for essentially cutting Sahin from the team last year , when a player like him was at leastnin the vicinity of what we were desperately lacking.

Then playing him at left back , while Lass and Khedira play in midfield in pre season is just disrespectful, especially after he embaraased them himself with Castilla around him.

The left back incidents were merely occurring in Pre-season friendlies... that is the time where many different things are tried and tested for next season, so it doesn't matter if sahin played LB or CM or DM or whatever.

Secondly, your suggestion that Alonso is overworked is mostly correct, especially last season, however, the fact that Modrric is being chased so strongly by Mourinho is an evidence to the fact that Mou has realized that Alonso, especially due to his age, cannot play every game, therefore Modric, a player who is qualified and proven at many stages and very experienced against big teams, is being brought in to further provide depth and world class options for the team.

No, despite popular belief, Sahin has not proven himself. One good season in German league does not constitute as a proven player against strong opposition, but that is not to say that Sahin is not needed, he is SIMPLY, and obviusly an option for the Future!! and the loan to Liverpool will ensure that Sahin will benefit from all the experience against strong EPL teams, and further develop as a player.

The biggest evidence against Mou's dsapproval of Sahin in the team is the fact that he is going to Liverpool, rather than Arsenal, merely because of the buy-out clause wanted by Arsenal, and since Mourinho sees Sahin in his long term goal, is not only a very strategic decision, but will also benefit Sahin and Real Madrid! as Modric, Sahin, Khedira and Ozil are the future of Real Madrid midfield! and a full season in Liverpool will ensure his development is not stalled, (which will be the case if he had stayed in RM this season because benching Alonso at present is simply not an option).

>Sahin has been a Dortmund starter since he was 17 and had 3 years or thereabouts of being their best player or in the vicinity.

>Ozil had less success in Bundesliga...let's not even get into Khedira.

>Sahin was fully fit Decemeber and despite this, only played in a couple meaningless games, the sum of which was 600 minutes. He was subbed off at halftime despite us already having won the league.

>He played well in those games, he did nothing to prevent Mourinhio from giving him more time, nor did he do anything to indicate that he was a worse playmaker than Lass....who incidentally was given that task in preseason.

>Modric is a joke against big teams, and England is in now way or form a better learning ground for a player than Germany.

In the end, It's fine by me, I like Liverpool if he can't be here, then I'd love for him to be here.

But he's an asset we didn't even come close to making the most out of and that falls on Mourinhio because he chose to not use him. He preferred Lass, he preffered Granero etc etc. That falls on him and there's no excuse for it.

srigooner wrote:[Yes, I have only recently been cajoled into posting in the GS - I stick to Arsenal section where there is much less BS to digest usually.

And that is fair enough. I do the same albeit stay in LFC section.

srigooner wrote:

Again, I didn't criticize BR. I was hoping Kenny would do the job, but was left disappointed. I would never want to see a day when we hire and fire a legend like Henry or Tony Adams in one year. I am undecided on BR but first signs, before West Brom, have been positive. Transfer activity has not been too positive imo - already discussed earlier.

His transfer activity has been positive though. Yes, we need a player in the final third, but we've got rid of massive wages (that's already been mentioned) and brought in 2, potentially 3 players that put us in a better position than last season paying 'low' contracts.

srigooner wrote:

I never said it was a fact. And I repeat, I never questioned the investment in Sahin, assuming it is made. I questioned the lack of such intense activity in addressing other areas with barely a week left.

That's fair enough. We do need a striker, but like Red has said a loan deal isn't that bad. We do need depth in midfield, and Sahin is quality. We're not paying for him (certain it's just 70% of his contract) so if we do need a striker and if we do have funds we will go for him.

srigooner wrote:
Again, the comparison was irrelevant, no matter what the reason. My original question was directed at Liverpool, not how it compared with other clubs. Liverpool fans criticizing themselves is not a sight I am used to seeing either - you lot are very very defensive (not just in GL).

First of all, which club isn't "defensive"?

And secondly why is not relevant? You said we could bust and go into debt (or something along those lines) and Sepi had said that we're financially stable and compared us to one of the strongest financial football in Arsenal, in which we're edging them in certain aspects.

Not sure if that quoted right. I havn't adjusted to GL's quoting system yet.

Liverpool to get Sahin on loan for one season.

Next season we sign Alonso back after his contract is up and promote Suso.

#Destiny

Alonso and Mourinhio came through in the Clutch for Pool.

Alonso spent time with him and stongly advised him to go to Liverpool

I take it you're talking about Sahin?

I don't want to sack Rodgers for Mourinho...

Obviously.

I myself would be against the idea of replacing Rodgers with Mourinhio

It's settled then.

Sahin to Alonso and then to Suso.

Liverpool is back.

Suso is a winger/AM lol.

Jonjo