Messi, Xavi, Iniesta are all good & God Knows I Love them But Ronaldo deserves the Ballon D'or

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Post by teamanarchy Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:22

Senor Penguin wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:
Senor Penguin wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:Lemme guess Callejon is more complete? Laughing
No. He just excels, like Messi, at certain attributes that Ronaldo doesn't. Of course not at the same levels as Messi by any means.

Callejon, for example, has a higher passing percentage than Ronaldo, commits less fouls, draws more fouls (see last season where he was fouled more than Messi and Ronaldo), has a better defensive work-rate and is really great at running deep, beating the offside rule. Not to mention he's a very clinical player who doesn't need a lot of chances to convert them into goals.

I like him especially because he plays for the crest and the Madridismo shines from him every time he plays. He's our youth product and a very good one at that.

Callejon has his uses, but the fact that he beats the offside trap and sometimes grabs a goal is the only thing to his game and he will never be a top player.
I like how you marginalized the tremendous amount of work he puts in for the club by saying he just "beats the offside trap and grabs a goal".

For me he is already a top player. He is successfully competing with our usual starters for a spot in the starting eleven, he does what is required of him whenever he plays and he's part of one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Mourinho made a perfect choice when he allowed Callejon to take on the challenge of being a player for us.
Now, I am a huge fan of Callejon. And frankly, I'm a much bigger fan of his than of Ronaldo's... but Callejon will never be of the same quality as Ronaldo. I do think he'll be awesome, given time and regular minutes. But he'll never be on Ronaldo's level.
Nothing to be ashamed of either.

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Post by kiranr Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:24

teamanarchy wrote:
At the end of the day... Ronaldo has taken Portugal to a Euro final and a 4th place finish in the World Cup. All after the "golden generation" was past it.


Now you are just making stuff up. CR was the part of the end of the golden generation. They were still a massive set of players and CR rode their coattails.

I am not undermining him at all, btw. However, some of the arguments in his favour are plain fallacious. More complete player, proved outside Madrid, playing for Madrid is complicated etc etc.

Seriously, just the goal stats are enough to prove his credentials. None of the other intangibles, which are borderline fantasy, are needed.
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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:27

Messi is the best in the world, but seriously Ronaldo is more complete than Messi.
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Post by Senor Penguin Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:29

EarlyPrototype wrote:
Senor Penguin wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:
Senor Penguin wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:Lemme guess Callejon is more complete? Laughing
No. He just excels, like Messi, at certain attributes that Ronaldo doesn't. Of course not at the same levels as Messi by any means.

Callejon, for example, has a higher passing percentage than Ronaldo, commits less fouls, draws more fouls (see last season where he was fouled more than Messi and Ronaldo), has a better defensive work-rate and is really great at running deep, beating the offside rule. Not to mention he's a very clinical player who doesn't need a lot of chances to convert them into goals.

I like him especially because he plays for the crest and the Madridismo shines from him every time he plays. He's our youth product and a very good one at that.

Callejon has his uses, but the fact that he beats the offside trap and sometimes grabs a goal is the only thing to his game and he will never be a top player.
I like how you marginalized the tremendous amount of work he puts in for the club by saying he just "beats the offside trap and grabs a goal".

For me he is already a top player. He is successfully competing with our usual starters for a spot in the starting eleven, he does what is required of him whenever he plays and he's part of one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Mourinho made a perfect choice when he allowed Callejon to take on the challenge of being a player for us.

I like how you make him sound like a better player because he runs more than Ronaldo lol. Just a heads up Di Maria runs twice as much as Callejon and is 3 times the player. You must first dream of Mou benching DI Maria before benching Ronaldo lol.
3 times the player? I disagree. But in terms of work-rate you're correct and there are very few players who can compare to Di Maria when he's instructed to work like a horse.

Besides, I don't think I make Callejon "sound" better than Ronaldo. Maybe that's just an unfortunate Freudian slip for you. I'm just saying that certain things are done better with Callejon on the pitch compared to Ronaldo and that's the harsh reality.

EarlyPrototype wrote:Messi is the best in the world, but seriously Ronaldo is more complete than Messi.
Isn't this an oxymoron? Ronaldo more complete and yet Messi best in the world. hmm

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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:33

It isn't an oxymoron because Messi excels at what he does best.
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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:33

Nothing is done better on the pitch by Callejon apart from running more.
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Post by kiranr Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:34

EarlyPrototype wrote:It isn't an oxymoron because Messi excels at what he does best.

What does Messi do best?
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Post by Lex Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:34

Weren't Ronaldo fans and Messi haters alike whining that Messi shouldn't have won a past award a while ago (i can't remember which one it was) because he hasn't won a world cup with Argentina, despite winning pretty much everything else with Barcelona?

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Post by Lex Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:35

Oh, and Messi is the BPITW. The sooner people learn to just accept it, the better
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Post by teamanarchy Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:35

kiranr wrote:
teamanarchy wrote:
At the end of the day... Ronaldo has taken Portugal to a Euro final and a 4th place finish in the World Cup. All after the "golden generation" was past it.


Now you are just making stuff up. CR was the part of the end of the golden generation. They were still a massive set of players and CR rode their coattails.

I am not undermining him at all, btw. However, some of the arguments in his favour are plain fallacious. More complete player, proved outside Madrid, playing for Madrid is complicated etc etc.

Seriously, just the goal stats are enough to prove his credentials. None of the other intangibles, which are borderline fantasy, are needed.

You can make an argument for Euro 2004... but at least by the 2006 WC, that Golden Generation was all but over.
The other arguments are quite legit as far as I'm concerned...
The only issue is, a lot of this stuff is matter of opinion type thing.

For example, Messi's only played for one club.
While I see this as a reason to believe he wouldn't have been as big a success elsewhere, a Barcelona may view it as romantic in many senses.
Similairly, I find it romantic and a testament to his loyalty that Iker Casillas is a one-club-man
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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:36

kiranr wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:It isn't an oxymoron because Messi excels at what he does best.

What does Messi do best?

Dribbling and that left foot which he has. Enough to make him better than Ronaldo.
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Post by Senor Penguin Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:37

EarlyPrototype wrote:Nothing is done better on the pitch by Callejon apart from running more.
You're being short sighted. Given the opponent, the tactical set-up and the morale of the individual and the team as a whole, there are certain things Callejon would definitely do better than Cristiano.

That's football for you and some of these factors contributed to Cristiano's piss poor performance against Barca last time.

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Post by kiranr Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:38

EarlyPrototype wrote:
kiranr wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:It isn't an oxymoron because Messi excels at what he does best.

What does Messi do best?

Dribbling and that left foot which he has. Enough to make him better than Ronaldo.

But he excels at many other things compared to Ronaldo. Like passing for instance. So without that how does CR become " more complete"?

EDIT: This is being moved to the RB section btw.
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Post by billionmillion Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:41

Finally a player praised CR once in a year. and he is not sure what he is talking about

How ronaldo is more complete? he has not messi's dribbling, passing, playmaking, close control or brain. How is it complete? this teamanarchy gay is the biggest CR fanboy here always talking BS about messi overrating CR.
He is complete in air? last season CR scored 2-3 goals by head and messi 2. No difference just this head thing is overrated. Can shoot with left? messi scored more goals with his intelligent right foot than CR's dumb left foot
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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:41

kiranr wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:
kiranr wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:It isn't an oxymoron because Messi excels at what he does best.

What does Messi do best?

Dribbling and that left foot which he has. Enough to make him better than Ronaldo.

But he excels at many other things compared to Ronaldo. Like passing for instance. So without that how does CR become " more complete"?

EDIT: This is being moved to the RB section btw.

Speed
Strength
Heading
Power
He is both footed (whether Penguin likes it or not lol)
Freekicks
Basically the physical part of his game

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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:42

Senor Penguin wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:Nothing is done better on the pitch by Callejon apart from running more.
You're being short sighted. Given the opponent, the tactical set-up and the morale of the individual and the team as a whole, there are certain things Callejon would definitely do better than Cristiano.

That's football for you and some of these factors contributed to Cristiano's piss poor performance against Barca last time.

and what are those certain things?
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Post by Zees Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:43



Last edited by ZsG7 on Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:47; edited 2 times in total
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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:43

Billionmillion is easily the most retarded poster on this forum. :bow:
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Post by billy_gr Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:46

Ronaldo excels in the physical department, we know that already.
Still he’s nowhere near Mesi in terms of playmaking and performing in the games that matters most but we also know this already.
There is no reason to go through this again
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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:47

To make it clear I would swap Ronaldo with Messi any day.
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Post by billy_gr Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:49

I would swap Maxwel for Marcelo.
Deal?
:coffee:
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Post by EarlyPrototype Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:50

billy_gr wrote:I would swap Maxwel for Marcelo.
Deal?
:coffee:

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Post by Senor Penguin Wed 28 Dec 2011, 13:51

teamanarchy wrote:
Senor Penguin wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:
Senor Penguin wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:Lemme guess Callejon is more complete? Laughing
No. He just excels, like Messi, at certain attributes that Ronaldo doesn't. Of course not at the same levels as Messi by any means.

Callejon, for example, has a higher passing percentage than Ronaldo, commits less fouls, draws more fouls (see last season where he was fouled more than Messi and Ronaldo), has a better defensive work-rate and is really great at running deep, beating the offside rule. Not to mention he's a very clinical player who doesn't need a lot of chances to convert them into goals.

I like him especially because he plays for the crest and the Madridismo shines from him every time he plays. He's our youth product and a very good one at that.

Callejon has his uses, but the fact that he beats the offside trap and sometimes grabs a goal is the only thing to his game and he will never be a top player.
I like how you marginalized the tremendous amount of work he puts in for the club by saying he just "beats the offside trap and grabs a goal".

For me he is already a top player. He is successfully competing with our usual starters for a spot in the starting eleven, he does what is required of him whenever he plays and he's part of one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Mourinho made a perfect choice when he allowed Callejon to take on the challenge of being a player for us.
Now, I am a huge fan of Callejon. And frankly, I'm a much bigger fan of his than of Ronaldo's... but Callejon will never be of the same quality as Ronaldo. I do think he'll be awesome, given time and regular minutes. But he'll never be on Ronaldo's level.
Nothing to be ashamed of either.
I agree but we should not underestimate the impact a player like Callejon can have. Not a lot of people predicted a player like McManaman to have much noteworthy impact for Madrid but he had it anyway. And how about Makelele? By many considered to be essentially deadweight for the Galacticos and yet his absence resulted in major havoc that never fully got under control.

In my opinion it is more important to lust and be hungry for something rather than having the natural abilities of a footballer. Working hard, having passion for the crest instead of individual accolades and primadonna traits will many times bring you out on top. I believe Callejon has the attributes necessary to contribute with something similar.

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Post by Berbaflop Wed 28 Dec 2011, 14:07

If Ronaldo deserved it, Demba Ba deserved it as well
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Post by billionmillion Wed 28 Dec 2011, 14:23

EarlyPrototype wrote:Billionmillion is easily the most retarded poster on this forum. :bow:

EarlyPrototype wrote:
kiranr wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:
kiranr wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:It isn't an oxymoron because Messi excels at what he does best.

What does Messi do best?

Dribbling and that left foot which he has. Enough to make him better than Ronaldo.

But he excels at many other things compared to Ronaldo. Like passing for instance. So without that how does CR become " more complete"?

EDIT: This is being moved to the RB section btw.

Speed
Strength
Heading
Power
He is both footed (whether Penguin likes it or not lol)
Freekicks
Basically the physical part of his game

- There are 2 kind of speed. one is running in tight spaces another one in open spaces. messi wins first cr second. and first is more important.
- And strengh? :facepalm: i always seen CR as a little girl who dives and cries by little contact. Messi looks more stronger than him as he fights for the ball till the end
- I told you what both footed means
- Free-kicks - 200 tries 3 goals, i dont consider him as a great free-kick taker. Messi doesnt waste free kicks, either he passes or does a very good free kick.
- At heading ronaldo is better because he is taller. but this atribute also is overrated. He scores maximum 2-3 goals by head per season

Messi is clearly better at passing, dribbling, playmaking, close control, acceleration and vision. these attributes are way more important than the attributes that cr has. in reality messi is more complete player
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Post by teamanarchy Wed 28 Dec 2011, 15:33

Billionmillion.
You call me a fanboy (and gay- stop that, it's childish and ignorant)... Have you taken a look at your posts about Messi?
They are totally devoid of logic and frankly, they're quite shameful...

While anybody arguing Ronaldo's case is complimeting his positive atributes, those (yourself specifically) arguing Messi's case are undermining Ronaldo's and are talking about him like he's a bad player.
That kind of discussion will never go anywhere.
But that's why I never argue with an idiot...



Thus ends my contribution to a thread which has been going nowhere since page 1.
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