Astori In. Bonera Out.

The only reason I wouldn't want him to come right now is because of play time, not because of Quality because he has the quality to play at a top club.

Wow this is like the best trade to ever happen in the history of football ... getting rid of Bonera is like music to my ears ...

Giancarlo wrote:

milanista99 wrote:You know when all the "Astori is rubbish" started? When Cagliari lost to us and Astori had a bad game. That was the only game where most of the people saw him, so they base their opinions on him on one game. This season he has been one of the best centre backs in Italy, hence the reason why he got an Italy call up ahead of Paolo Cannavaro et all. He has been a rock for Cagliari this season and getting him would be a very smart move. Mexes is just a short term solution and had a very serious knee injury and Nesta is 35, if Astori impresses he can be a future starter for us. He is I think 23, that's pretty young for a CB. And as for Bonera, he can just GTFO. Let him join Inter, L3-0nardo would love to have his boyfriend back. And Onyewu should also leave, waste of space. We got Rodrigo Ely and Albertazzi coming up.

Um true, even a good player can have a bad day. Thiago Silva wasn't perfect all season either. I remember him making mistakes along with Bonera against Udinese. People will say "that's all Bonera's fault". Yes mostly, but he wasn't great that game either. I remember Nesta making a few mistakes himself... but does that take away from the player's quality?

Abate had a terrible game against Palermo (the league game where we lost 1-0)... does that make him rubbish? It's never good to assume on one game. That's the mistake some make with Sokratis... saying... "Well he was awesome against Argentina and Messi"... yeah he also played as a DMF.

Exactly. No one is perfect, even the very best players have some bad days. Astori has been one of the best CBs in Serie A this season. He had a way better season than Bonucci and Ranocchia. After Thiago Silva, Nesta, Zapata, Dias and Chiellini he was the best CB in Serie A.

We really didn't give Onyewu a shot. so maybe we should keep him.
I'm glad that Bonera will be out.

Onyewu is crap, no need for him in our squad I'd take any center back in the primavera over him. All he has is size, nothing else.

Milantildeath wrote:Onyewu is crap, no need for him in our squad I'd take any center back in the primavera over him. All he has is size, nothing else.

LOL a bit harsh no? Onyewu is no WC CB, but as someone said in this thread ( Ithink Izzy) we need a decent fifth choice cb that we can use in an injury crisis. Onyewu is actually decent. I dunno why you guys r all hating on him. He's def. better than astori.

Milantildeath wrote:Onyewu is crap, no need for him in our squad I'd take any center back in the primavera over him. All he has is size, nothing else.

LOL a bit harsh no? Onyewu is no WC CB, but as someone said in this thread ( I think boban?) we need a decent fifth choice cb that we can use in an injury crisis. Onyewu is actually decent. I dunno why you guys r all hating on him. He's def. better than astori.

A decent fifth choice CB would be no other than Yepes. This is why I'm strongly in favor of bringing back Astori to become 4th choice CB. I highly doubt we're going to lose all our CBs.

T. Silva, Nesta, Mexes, Astori and Yepes... should be our CBs... in that order.

Does Onyewu and Bonera fit into this equation? No. They don't have a place in this squad. Onyewu really is a bad defender...

Maybe we can play him in that friendly against Barcelona... oh wait... he already played against many of those players against Spain... and he got burned numerous times. He was so bad he had to be subbed off. Not as bad as Ream, but still pretty bad.

ACMRox wrote:

Milantildeath wrote:Onyewu is crap, no need for him in our squad I'd take any center back in the primavera over him. All he has is size, nothing else.

LOL a bit harsh no? Onyewu is no WC CB, but as someone said in this thread ( I think boban?) we need a decent fifth choice cb that we can use in an injury crisis. Onyewu is actually decent. I dunno why you guys r all hating on him. He's def. better than astori.

were you drunk when you wrote that?

Onyewu better than Astori? Why not say Bonera is better than Astori too?

Milantildeath wrote:

ACMRox wrote:

Milantildeath wrote:Onyewu is crap, no need for him in our squad I'd take any center back in the primavera over him. All he has is size, nothing else.

LOL a bit harsh no? Onyewu is no WC CB, but as someone said in this thread ( I think boban?) we need a decent fifth choice cb that we can use in an injury crisis. Onyewu is actually decent. I dunno why you guys r all hating on him. He's def. better than astori.

were you drunk when you wrote that?

No, actually he is quite right. Let me remind you that Onyewu has played at two World Cups keeping from scoring players like Toni and Rooney and was a top defender at the 2009 Confederations Cup where he dominated against Villa and Torres. Recently he was part of the lineup which tied a full side Argentina 1-1, keeping Messi from scoring. When Onyewu played with Standard Liege against an Italian side, Sampdoria, in Europa League he dominated against Pazzini and scored a header in a 3-0 win. So spare me that the Belgian League where he was the leading defender is that bad.

The only REAL problem with Onyewu is that he hasn't played much in two years. And the cause to that is that he had a bad injury and that he is American therefore not worthy of a chance by Eurosnob standards. Allegri did not even get him once on the field in pre-season!!!

That for instance explains why a ridiculously overrated player like Cassano was brought in by Allegri, while Dempsey who was on Milan's radar last summer, was left scoring goals at Fulham.

Onyewu at Milan was never given a chance. Not one. That is the truth. Unless we consider his chance being the friendly against Inter in Boston paired up with Kaladze and Kalac in the goal, which by the way was more responsible than him on the infamous Milito's goal. Milito by the way that year would have dribbled with ease through any defender as the entire season showed.

For once I would like to see Onyewu paired up with Silva or Nesta after being able to do the entire pre-season injury free. I have no doubts in my mind that he is a better player than Mexes, Bonera, and even Yepes.

I wouldn't call him better than Astori because constant injuries have taken their toll on him in the past two years when he's barely played, however he's a great centre-back to have when dealing with any targetman. Against a mobile strike force without a true focal point he'll struggle, however he's physically dominant otherwise and is more than capable of being our fifth choice.

If Astori comes he will realistically need to establish himself as a potential first team candidate within the first month and a half before Mexes returns from injury, in order to create a challenge for the position of first choice back-up, and he will need to also out-perform Yepes who apart from a lack of page due to age is an experienced and sound centre-half.

If we need him in January, recall him from a loan deal, otherwise we're relying on an injury to give him the opportunity he deserves. What difference would it have made if Sokratis or Astori was the young defender rotting on the bench to play three games a year? Now that we've crowded our backline we should only bring him back if Nesta is injured or if Yepes or Mexes leave.

ACMRox wrote:

Milantildeath wrote:Onyewu is crap, no need for him in our squad I'd take any center back in the primavera over him. All he has is size, nothing else.

LOL a bit harsh no? Onyewu is no WC CB, but as someone said in this thread ( I think boban?) we need a decent fifth choice cb that we can use in an injury crisis. Onyewu is actually decent. I dunno why you guys r all hating on him. He's def. better than astori.

I am sorry you haven't learned the reason yet. It's because he is American.

I have seen Astori playing. He has all the flaws attributed to Onyewu and then some (phisically weak, despite his height not a good header, etc). But of course he is not American, therefore he is better by default.

Giancarlo wrote:A decent fifth choice CB would be no other than Yepes. This is why I'm strongly in favor of bringing back Astori to become 4th choice CB. I highly doubt we're going to lose all our CBs.

T. Silva, Nesta, Mexes, Astori and Yepes... should be our CBs... in that order.

Does Onyewu and Bonera fit into this equation? No. They don't have a place in this squad. Onyewu really is a bad defender...

Maybe we can play him in that friendly against Barcelona... oh wait... he already played against many of those players against Spain... and he got burned numerous times. He was so bad he had to be subbed off. Not as bad as Ream, but still pretty bad.

This is the US starting line up:

Howard;

Chandler, DeMerit, Onyewu, Bocanegra;

Holden, Jones, Bradley, Donovan;

Altidore, Dempsey.

Remind me again of how many of these players were on the field in the first half? Even T. Silva would have struggled with a line up with the likes of Rogers, Kijestan, Ream, etc.

Onyewu doesn't need to be a leader in our defence, whilst he's never going to be part of such an inexperienced squad without the right attitude. His performance doesn't deserve to be defended, but he shouldn't be judged simply on this game.

Onyewu is not the player to perform against a Messi spear-headed Barcelona, however our third back-up simply need to be able to deal with the majority of teams and their styles. How many teams play with a false 9 capable of dribbling an entire team? He'd have a clear role against most teams in Serie A save for possibly Palermo, that's all we should realistically be planning for.

Back-ups are present to add depth but also variety to a squad, Onyewu does that.

Also Texaslonghorns, welcome to the forums.

TexasLonghorns wrote:

Milantildeath wrote:

ACMRox wrote:

Milantildeath wrote:Onyewu is crap, no need for him in our squad I'd take any center back in the primavera over him. All he has is size, nothing else.

LOL a bit harsh no? Onyewu is no WC CB, but as someone said in this thread ( I think boban?) we need a decent fifth choice cb that we can use in an injury crisis. Onyewu is actually decent. I dunno why you guys r all hating on him. He's def. better than astori.

were you drunk when you wrote that?

No, actually he is quite right. Let me remind you that Onyewu has played at two World Cups keeping from scoring players like Toni and Rooney and was a top defender at the 2009 Confederations Cup where he dominated against Villa and Torres. Recently he was part of the lineup which tied a full side Argentina 1-1, keeping Messi from scoring. When Onyewu played with Standard Liege against an Italian side, Sampdoria, in Europa League he dominated against Pazzini and scored a header in a 3-0 win. So spare me that the Belgian League where he was the leading defender is that bad.

The only REAL problem with Onyewu is that he hasn't played much in two years. And the cause to that is that he had a bad injury and that he is American therefore not worthy of a chance by Eurosnob standards. Allegri did not even get him once on the field in pre-season!!!

That for instance explains why a ridiculously overrated player like Cassano was brought in by Allegri, while Dempsey who was on Milan's radar last summer, was left scoring goals at Fulham.

Onyewu at Milan was never given a chance. Not one. That is the truth. Unless we consider his chance being the friendly against Inter in Boston paired up with Kaladze and Kalac in the goal, which by the way was more responsible than him on the infamous Milito's goal. Milito by the way that year would have dribbled with ease through any defender as the entire season showed.

For once I would like to see Onyewu paired up with Silva or Nesta after being able to do the entire pre-season injury free. I have no doubts in my mind that he is a better player than Mexes, Bonera, and even Yepes.

Are you implying that Dempsey is better than Cassano?

milanista99 wrote:

TexasLonghorns wrote:

Milantildeath wrote:

ACMRox wrote:

Milantildeath wrote:Onyewu is crap, no need for him in our squad I'd take any center back in the primavera over him. All he has is size, nothing else.

LOL a bit harsh no? Onyewu is no WC CB, but as someone said in this thread ( I think boban?) we need a decent fifth choice cb that we can use in an injury crisis. Onyewu is actually decent. I dunno why you guys r all hating on him. He's def. better than astori.

were you drunk when you wrote that?

No, actually he is quite right. Let me remind you that Onyewu has played at two World Cups keeping from scoring players like Toni and Rooney and was a top defender at the 2009 Confederations Cup where he dominated against Villa and Torres. Recently he was part of the lineup which tied a full side Argentina 1-1, keeping Messi from scoring. When Onyewu played with Standard Liege against an Italian side, Sampdoria, in Europa League he dominated against Pazzini and scored a header in a 3-0 win. So spare me that the Belgian League where he was the leading defender is that bad.

The only REAL problem with Onyewu is that he hasn't played much in two years. And the cause to that is that he had a bad injury and that he is American therefore not worthy of a chance by Eurosnob standards. Allegri did not even get him once on the field in pre-season!!!

That for instance explains why a ridiculously overrated player like Cassano was brought in by Allegri, while Dempsey who was on Milan's radar last summer, was left scoring goals at Fulham.

Onyewu at Milan was never given a chance. Not one. That is the truth. Unless we consider his chance being the friendly against Inter in Boston paired up with Kaladze and Kalac in the goal, which by the way was more responsible than him on the infamous Milito's goal. Milito by the way that year would have dribbled with ease through any defender as the entire season showed.

For once I would like to see Onyewu paired up with Silva or Nesta after being able to do the entire pre-season injury free. I have no doubts in my mind that he is a better player than Mexes, Bonera, and even Yepes.

Are you implying that Dempsey is better than Cassano?

Yes, and not even by little. The stats speak for themselves.

dostoevsky wrote:Onyewu doesn't need to be a leader in our defence, whilst he's never going to be part of such an inexperienced squad without the right attitude. His performance doesn't deserve to be defended, but he shouldn't be judged simply on this game.

Onyewu is not the player to perform against a Messi spear-headed Barcelona, however our third back-up simply need to be able to deal with the majority of teams and their styles. How many teams play with a false 9 capable of dribbling an entire team? He'd have a clear role against most teams in Serie A save for possibly Palermo, that's all we should realistically be planning for.

Back-ups are present to add depth but also variety to a squad, Onyewu does that.

Also Texaslonghorns, welcome to the forums.

Thank you. Not to mention Milan is super weak headers wise except for Silva.

I don't want this thread to go too far off topic so I'll put it this way.

Cassano and Pazzini left Sampdoria and they went from being two minutes away from the Champions League group stages to being relegated to Serie B before the final match day.

Typical big fish in small ponds like Bent can't carry their teams consistently and when the stakes are high, however Cassano improved the entire team, making it greater than the sum of its parts, whilst performing against the big teams like Inter as well as the mid-table opposition who must be broken down in order to guarantee a high finish.

Cassano's creativity, vision and technique is possibly the best in Italy, he's just overweight, lazy and he tends to oscillate between tamed husband and raging lunatic.

Also in terms of our aerial play we lack a bit of aggression, however we haven't proven especially susceptible to this in recent times. The Manchester tie does come to mind, however Bonera's inability to pressure a striker who is 5ft 9 in won't burden us for much longer. Our in the box-marking's sufficient - apart from left back though hopefully Taiwo's an improvement - and the example of Abate against Crouch is a good one. Despite being physically outmatched and not having a hope of winning the header Abate simply maintained physical contact and ensured that he jumped with and into Crouch, a legal move which acts as a distraction and also greatly reduces the ability of a player to provide an accurate header. If we're aggressive in our play in the box then even if we can't win headers we can render them harmless apart from random spillage. When this constant pressure doesn't occur though it's a quick, short route to early exits from tournaments though, so I understand your concern.

Out of interest, anyone have anything more to say on Astori?

Where would Fulham be without Dempsey? I have seen Cassano miss goals that not even in O40 sunday leagues...

TexasLonghorns wrote:Where would Fulham be without Dempsey? I have seen Cassano miss goals that not even in O40 sunday leagues...

I don't know Fulham well enough to have any idea how they'd change if Dempsey was removed so I'm afraid I can't answer that question.

Cassano's finishing was poor this season, however it should also be mentioned that some of his worst misses came from aerial chances, whilst the others were disappointing but a part of football. Robinho has been just as culpable, however their collective ability to beat players, open up space and play final balls adds so much to our build-up, they're not players advertised for their ability to finish. In the end Cassano and Robinho did eventually find the net when we needed them to perform in the league, though they obviously could have made games like Brescia and Bologna far more comfortable than they were.

I don't think putting Robinho in the same sentence with Cassano is fair, as much as would be talking about Ranocchia in the same sentence with Nesta...

Robinho scored more goals than Ibrahimovic if we don't take PKs into account. He will do even better next season. Cassano at 29 can only do worse.

dostoevsky wrote:I don't want this thread to go too far off topic so I'll put it this way.

Cassano and Pazzini left Sampdoria and they went from being two minutes away from the Champions League group stages to being relegated to Serie B before the final match day.

Typical big fish in small ponds like Bent can't carry their teams consistently and when the stakes are high, however Cassano improved the entire team, making it greater than the sum of its parts, whilst performing against the big teams like Inter as well as the mid-table opposition who must be broken down in order to guarantee a high finish.

Cassano's creativity, vision and technique is possibly the best in Italy, he's just overweight, lazy and he tends to oscillate between tamed husband and raging lunatic.

Also in terms of our aerial play we lack a bit of aggression, however we haven't proven especially susceptible to this in recent times. The Manchester tie does come to mind, however Bonera's inability to pressure a striker who is 5ft 9 in won't burden us for much longer. Our in the box-marking's sufficient - apart from left back though hopefully Taiwo's an improvement - and the example of Abate against Crouch is a good one. Despite being physically outmatched and not having a hope of winning the header Abate simply maintained physical contact and ensured that he jumped with and into Crouch, a legal move which acts as a distraction and also greatly reduces the ability of a player to provide an accurate header. If we're aggressive in our play in the box then even if we can't win headers we can render them harmless apart from random spillage. When this constant pressure doesn't occur though it's a quick, short route to early exits from tournaments though, so I understand your concern.

Out of interest, anyone have anything more to say on Astori?

I have one thing to add as things stand I believe we dont need him in our squad and Onyewu is a far better option for many reasons first of all I would have higher hopes on Onyewu to perform in a highly stressed game due to his experience on the largest stage WC and Con cup. His phisicall abillity; and lets all not forget his nobel act when he offered to play for free with Milan.

In short I'll take him over Astori anyday of the week at leas for now.

Cassano failed in every team he played. It's a fact.

someone is hating on cassano and fails to realize that cassano's best talent is his vision something that he was on point with when he played. as for astori over gooch astori is already a better defender and he has played in italy already something gooch has failed to do also astori is only 24 while gooch is 30