Juventus vs Milan | Berlusconi Cup

Yes, it is obvious that Pirlo is a creative midfielder. The same goesfor Aquilani. But he still defended. Why do you think Milan always played with a 3 man mid? Cause Gattuso alone could not support Pirlo defensively. To play a2 man midfield, they both have to work defensively. Im noy sying Pirlo has to become a DM, but look at how Aquilani learned to tracj back more last season. Thats at I want from Pirlo. If he cant do that, then he shouldnt be starting. And your exampleswere way too extreme. Much better examples are Lichsteiners main purpose is to defend, but he should also me overlapping runs and cross the ball. Or when Nedved was a pure winger, he still had to trackback and defend quite a bit. So youre telling me that Nedved, Camoranesi, and Krasic all track(ed) back, but Pirlo shouldnt have to? Youre right thatits not his primary purpose, but he still needs to do it in a 2-man midfield. Aquilani did it. The exact same thing applies to Pirlo.

Aquilani did it so Pirlo has to.

When did Aquilani become an objective moral standard ?

How many tackles does Del Piero get in to ?

Youre seriously trying to compare Pirlo to Del Piero, while at the same time saying Pirlo doesnt relate to Aquilani? Come on now, you must be joking. Aquilani is a regista, THE SAME POSITION AS PIRLO. And to play in a 2- man mid he had to learn to defend. So if Pirlo wants to start in our 2man midfield he needs to learn to defend. Im not telling a goalie he needs to learn how to score. Im telling a central midfielder to learn to defend and stop being lazy. Its not unheard of to tell someone whosits right in front of the defense to learn to defend.

You literally are making less and less sense. Notice how Aquilani is built differently from Pirlo ? Del Piero and Pirlo share a similar body shape and structure; Pirlo is 5'9 while Aquilani is 6'1. No kidding one of them is unable to defend.

Pirlo is also 32 you forget that. He is injury-prone and he does not have the legs to run let alone be making tackles.

But why am I even debating this ? It is a well known fact known by anyone who watches football. Scratch that. My Sister realized that today and she has watched about as many Juventus games as I had by the time I was a week and a half old.

Youre telling me thati dont know what im talking about, but your telling me that Pirlo (regista) is more similar to Del Piero (STRIKER) than he is to Aquilani (regista). You must be joking. Size makes a difference, but thats not an excuse for Pirlo, A CENTRAL MIDFIELDER WHO SITS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DEFENSE, to not defend. No matter what their primary roles may be, neither center mid can be lazy defensively in a 2 man mid. Its simply too much work for Marchisio or Vidal alone. Even Melo, a more natural destroyer in midfield, needed help from Aquilani to be able to break down thr opposition. Pirlo bejng 32 and smaller than Aquilani is not an excuse. And please dont tell me Pirlo is more similar to ADP than he is to Aquilani. In size yes, but thats NO EXCUSE.

I said physically Pirlo and Del Piero are more alike; both are aged, nearing the end of their careers, injury prone, slow yet talented, and legends. This has nothing to do with positions.

It is a huge excuse. He has never played defence in his life, you expect an old dog to learn new tricks ? Better give this up now.

What Juve101 says makes allot of sense, deploying Pirlo as a regista in a 4-2-4 is tactical suicide. Also his claim that both of the 2 cm's deployed in the 4-2-4 should be defensively able is valid.

What was obviously apparent during the game was Juve's vulnerability against quick counters down their flanks, this was not the fault of the fullbacks but the midfield's inability to slown down the initial break, which meant that Krasic always found himself not being able to get back in time to help Lichtsteiner defend against Cassano and the overlapping run by Zambrotta.I agree that blame cannot be totally laid on Marchiso, but Conte himself as the team was not set up to be defensively secured.

Did you find it not relevant to note why Abate was left free to cross in the first place? Question where was Vidal, if he was caught out've position then who is responsible to cover for him? Was it not Pirlo? Do some of you now comprehend why Milan could not keep Pirlo, it was never about his talent it was the fact that he could no longer cover a flank, his mobility and stamina is in a poor state, if Pirlo is to succeed ( during a season) he must always be deployed centrally. Whats always worrying is that if Abate a so called " average rb" can exploit such a weakness in your system , one can only wonder what the Maggio's, Cassani's , Isla's and Maicon's can do to you.

This offensive approach by Juve has invigorated your attack, but has made you more vulnerable than ever before, there is a clear inbalance in your play and during the course of the season it will show.The 4-3-3 with Pirlo flanked by Vidal and Marchiso seems more stable and pratical.

Its not am excuse whatsoever. Were simply way too weakdefensuvely if Pirlo doesnt do anything defensuvely. Again, im not trying tk chge a 32 yearolds position at this point in his career. Im just saying that hes always worked in a 3 man midfield, but never in a 2 man mid. Theres a reason for that, hes lazy defensively and 1 DM doing all thr work is sjmply.too much work for one person. So if Pirlo wants to change that, he needs to work harder defensievely. And theres no excuses. Were notasking Del Piero, whose 37 and a forward, to track back. Im asking Pirlo, whose 32 and a central midfield regista that SITS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DEFENSE to defend. He barely even has to track back, most.of the tjme hell already be in the right place. He justneeds tolearn not to be lazy, or the 2 man mid will fail. Hopefully Conte drops Pirlo, and plays a Vidal-Marchisio center midfield, but I doubt tjag will happen soi at least hope he realizes Pirlos too lazy for a 2 man mid and switches to a 433.

4-3-3 solves many of lifes problems. Like covering Pirlo, protecting the defence, keeping possesion, not needing another forward e.g a winger and givng marchisio a starting role. Yet 4-2-4 is prefered.

Quagli more talented than Vucinci ??? I understand he is Italian we need Italians , I understand that he scores goals ...I love Quagli ..but he is no SS he is hybrid similar to Matri .... When its Vuci or him for SS I go for Vuci ...ffs he scored 2 goals in three last matches ...and his link up with matri/adp is amazing and he can build up plays so good ...

Pirlo is regita and must stay as one

juventus101 wrote:Its not am excuse whatsoever. Were simply way too weakdefensuvely if Pirlo doesnt do anything defensuvely. Again, im not trying tk chge a 32 yearolds position at this point in his career. Im just saying that hes always worked in a 3 man midfield, but never in a 2 man mid. Theres a reason for that, hes lazy defensively and 1 DM doing all thr work is sjmply.too much work for one person. So if Pirlo wants to change that, he needs to work harder defensievely. And theres no excuses. Were notasking Del Piero, whose 37 and a forward, to track back. Im asking Pirlo, whose 32 and a central midfield regista that SITS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DEFENSE to defend. He barely even has to track back, most.of the tjme hell already be in the right place. He justneeds tolearn not to be lazy, or the 2 man mid will fail. Hopefully Conte drops Pirlo, and plays a Vidal-Marchisio center midfield, but I doubt tjag will happen soi at least hope he realizes Pirlos too lazy for a 2 man mid and switches to a 433.

Look, as much as I disagree with you, even after the post I wrote to you, you never responded which is no surprise, but I mean Pirlo is not meant to defend and yes, I can understand you need defensive midfielders if your going to play with a two man mid, however, as the case may be, a Regista nevertheless is a must, and if we have no choice to stick with this 4-2-4 formation because Conte favors it, then I'd rather stick with Pirlo, for who by the way is our current best player of our pre season, A player who has linked our plays with creativity and plays like no tommorow, has started every game since the begining and has been great physically and mentaly. He is not meant to defend. So we really have to sacrafice Pirlo?

Let's look at all the games he started in shall we?

Juventus vs Sporting: 1-2
Juventus vs Chivas: 1-0
Juventus vs Club America: 2-0
Juventus vs Cuneo: 8-0
Juventus vs Betis: 0-0
Juventus vs Inter: 1-1
Juventus vs Milan: 2-1
Juventus vs Milan: 1-2

All the games Pirlo featured in, in which he he started them all in a 4-2-4 formation. Sporting we lost, however it was our first game, with really dry conditions and they were much more prepared. Our midfield was stable, We beat Chivas, with no problems, sure may seem nothing to you, however Chivas destroyed Barcelona. Once again, no problems in midfield. With Club America, we managed to have a great game with no problems in midfield again. Sure, Cuneo is not valid, but we surely had no problems with them. Juventus with Betis, they dominated possesion, but that is because they are one of the best doing in La Liga currently, and it's normal we struggled, but our midfield fought hard and pressed a lot, in which we in fact had it all stable. The against Inter, we did fantastic, our midfield was great, regardless of anything Pirlo made a god like assist to Vucinic. Against Milan we started with a 4-2-3-1 then shifted to a 4-2-4 when Vucinic came on, what happened? We managed to win. The game against Milan, in the 1st half, we did get dominated however for one we should not forget Pirlo was in the San Siro and it was a emotional night for him already, then he was up against the likes of Gattuso, Ambrosini and etc... So it's normal, it's going to happen that at one point you will be dominated.

The main point I'm trying to show you, is although the midfield is weak and I agree, though with all the oppositions we faced, we've obtained great results regardless if it's just pre-season with a two man midfield in it Pirlo.

DeviAngel wrote:Quagli more talented than Vucinci ??? I understand he is Italian we need Italians , I understand that he scores goals ...I love Quagli ..but he is no SS he is hybrid similar to Matri .... When its Vuci or him for SS I go for Vuci ...ffs he scored 2 goals in three last matches ...and his link up with matri/adp is amazing and he can build up plays so good ...

Pirlo is regita and must stay as one

Well, I'll tell you this, both players have the same abilities when it comes to being an SS, meaning both are not good enough for it. No, I'm not saying they are bad players, I'm just trying to point out that both Quag and Vucinic are not that type of World Class Support Striker, for instance Cassano or Aguero. Both players are very common, fast, verstale, dynamic. Don't get me wrong, both players can play on the Left wing, SS or even CF for that matter. Both players are capable of scoring goals, and doing it in great fashion. Now when it comes to playmaking skills, they are once again equal within the ability to do so. Neither player have the right vision to create plays for the prima punta, neither player are that great at dribbling and the list goes on. They are pretty much common. His best link up is mostly with Toni, with Matri he hasn't done much yet, so that's still not proven. I find Del Piero is more suitable for both Vucinic and Quag. Matri is better off with someone like Quag or Del Piero, with Vucinic, we have not seen anything, except for one friendly vs our Primavera.

Pirlo is a Regista as you said, and we need a vice for him.

The 4 times we played credible teams, we lost two, drew once, and won once. And our one win was through some Vidal magic. I think sjnce Congeinsists on starting Pirlo, we shouldplah a 433. Its weakens our attack a little, but strengthens our defense and midfield alot. Fact is, Aquilani is a regista justlike Pirlo,and even wjth a pure DM (Melo) next to him, he still had to learn to defend cuz if he didnt, our midfieldwouldve been overrun. Now Pirlo is not even playing with a DM. Vidal and Marchisio are both box to box mids. But you guys dont think Pirlo should defend more? If he doesnt, andhe leaves it all on just Marchisio or just Vidal, our midfield will get steamrolled. I dont see whatthe problem is. Aquilani did it, why cant Pirlo? Imnot saying become a DM. Im saying instead of concentrating 100% on playmaking and 0% on defending, he should try 75-25. That 25% would help so much, thats all im trying to say. And if Pirlo is too lazy to even give that, then I regret buying him.

juventus101 wrote:The 4 times we played credible teams, we lost two, drew once, and won once. And our one win was through some Vidal magic. I think sjnce Congeinsists on starting Pirlo, we shouldplah a 433. Its weakens our attack a little, but strengthens our defense and midfield alot. Fact is, Aquilani is a regista justlike Pirlo,and even wjth a pure DM (Melo) next to him, he still had to learn to defend cuz if he didnt, our midfieldwouldve been overrun. Now Pirlo is not even playing with a DM. Vidal and Marchisio are both box to box mids. But you guys dont think Pirlo should defend more? If he doesnt, andhe leaves it all on just Marchisio or just Vidal, our midfield will get steamrolled. I dont see whatthe problem is. Aquilani did it, why cant Pirlo? Imnot saying become a DM. Im saying instead of concentrating 100% on playmaking and 0% on defending, he should try 75-25. That 25% would help so much, thats all im trying to say. And if Pirlo is too lazy to even give that, then I regret buying him.

Stop commenting. You have never watched Pirlo play and if you say that in front of Italians or in Italia, you would literally be crucified in the town's square and burned alive. He is one of the best playmakers of all time, he does not need to defend to prove something to you.

juventus101 wrote:The 4 times we played credible teams, we lost two, drew once, and won once. And our one win was through some Vidal magic. I think sjnce Congeinsists on starting Pirlo, we shouldplah a 433. Its weakens our attack a little, but strengthens our defense and midfield alot. Fact is, Aquilani is a regista justlike Pirlo,and even wjth a pure DM (Melo) next to him, he still had to learn to defend cuz if he didnt, our midfieldwouldve been overrun. Now Pirlo is not even playing with a DM. Vidal and Marchisio are both box to box mids. But you guys dont think Pirlo should defend more? If he doesnt, andhe leaves it all on just Marchisio or just Vidal, our midfield will get steamrolled. I dont see whatthe problem is. Aquilani did it, why cant Pirlo? Imnot saying become a DM. Im saying instead of concentrating 100% on playmaking and 0% on defending, he should try 75-25. That 25% would help so much, thats all im trying to say. And if Pirlo is too lazy to even give that, then I regret buying him.

As for our last results, the first one we lost is irrelavent as it was our first game in pre-season for crying out loud... The second one was with Milan, and it happens, we beat them the first time, regardless with Vidal, Pirlo was there, Pirlo is not going to be always the man to win us games lol... So it was Vidal, next time it can be someone else, the logic behind that is somewhat odd and the draw, well a draw with Inter... what more can we ask for, during pre-season. Anyways... You mention Aquilani... sure... You claim he had to learn how to defend... Of course he did, however he was not doing it at all. Let me remind you that when Marchisio was out, Aquilani struggled for many reasons, and that being because Marchisio was there doing his defending for him. Aquilani never had to worry about defending in the first place. Now, let's makes this clear, Pirlo in fact works hard, he actually defends, regardless from last night which is no surprise, he brakes up lots of plays, intercepts lots of balls, presses a lot, tracks back. So for you claiming he should defend more, HE ALREADY DOES. The problem is not Pirlo, the problem is, WE CANNOT ONLY DEPEND ON TWO MIDFIELDERS!

JNC and Juve101 ..stop it !

JuvenelCuore wrote:

juventus101 wrote:The 4 times we played credible teams, we lost two, drew once, and won once. And our one win was through some Vidal magic. I think sjnce Congeinsists on starting Pirlo, we shouldplah a 433. Its weakens our attack a little, but strengthens our defense and midfield alot. Fact is, Aquilani is a regista justlike Pirlo,and even wjth a pure DM (Melo) next to him, he still had to learn to defend cuz if he didnt, our midfieldwouldve been overrun. Now Pirlo is not even playing with a DM. Vidal and Marchisio are both box to box mids. But you guys dont think Pirlo should defend more? If he doesnt, andhe leaves it all on just Marchisio or just Vidal, our midfield will get steamrolled. I dont see whatthe problem is. Aquilani did it, why cant Pirlo? Imnot saying become a DM. Im saying instead of concentrating 100% on playmaking and 0% on defending, he should try 75-25. That 25% would help so much, thats all im trying to say. And if Pirlo is too lazy to even give that, then I regret buying him.

Stop commenting. You have never watched Pirlo play and if you say that in front of Italians or in Italia, you would literally be crucified in the town's square and burned alive. He is one of the best playmakers of all time, he does not need to defend to prove something to you.

Pirlo is good,we all(I think) love him,but it's not that if we love a player,he should be a starter,even if it would destroy our team defensively.That's it,that's why we don't need Pirlo to play as a starter in a 424 formation..

Btw JNC I didn't know that this forum is allowed to disrespectful ppl with such "stupidity at its best" mind! F*** off

Stay classy Tareks.

What do I say to a lot who think Pirlo is defensively lazy and should defend ? Come on now. Watch some football lads.

And once again, my post is ignored

sciacca wrote:And once again, my post is ignored

People refuse to see the truth, Antonio. Sad, sad thing.

I told you guys to stop it that includes u to tareks .... Insults won't be tolerated if any1 of u insults than the only thing that you will see is the word " You have been banned "

now ty

I don't see the reason for the insulting... Let's calm down as Devi said...

That's the Devi I was looking for !

Where did I insult anyone ? But if I did, I apologize.

@ sciacca:
I thinm your giving Pirlo too much credit defensively. He does defend, obviously noprofessional is gonna let opposition run right past them, but in my opinion hejust doesnt defend enough. I know its not his primsry job, but when you sit in front of thr defense as a deep lying playmaker, you shouldnt be 95-100 percent about playmaking like he is. It should simply be more like 75%, with thr other 25% about defending. Thats all im asking. And im not saying Aquilani was a destroyer. But he adjusted to Juve and learned to defend more than he usually would have. Pirlo should do the same.

@JuveNelCuore:
Just chill.

@DeviAngel:
I havent insulted him once. Im an adult and I dont pick fights with people on the internet. Im trying to have a healthy debate, nothing more.

Fine then, we will agree to disagree as I said what I have to say and I'm in no mood to repeat myself.

sciacca wrote:Fine then, we will agree to disagree as I said what I have to say and I'm in no mood to repeat myself.

that explains me to

Me too. I dont feel like debating this anymore. Agree to disagree, cuz im done.