Re: Juventus vs Milan | Berlusconi Cup

by Patrick Bateman Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:53 am

I see ..So then a bad season awaits Milan.. Wink

by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:00 am

The Fonz wrote:I see ..So then a bad season awaits Milan..

Speriamo.

And Inter won the Trofeo TIM so if all goes according to myth, ciao ciao Milan !

by Patrick Bateman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:12 am

JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:I see ..So then a bad season awaits Milan..

Speriamo.

And Inter won the Trofeo TIM so if all goes according to myth, ciao ciao Milan !

Nice one ...Rome or Juve for the Scudetto then.. Very Happy

by juventus101 Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:16 am

JuvenelCuore wrote:
juventus101 wrote:I reaply dont see the need for a regista starting. Rememver that 3 years ago we were coming in 2nd place in the league and competing with guys lile Chelsea in the CL, including beating Real Madrid, with a midfield of a Camo and Nedved both on the wrong side of 30, an inexperienced Marchisio, and Sissoko who quite simply SUCKS at passing. Now we have a decent base with Krasic on one wing and either Pasquato or a new LW on the other, a much more experienced Marchisio, and Vidal whose definitely better than Momo. I mean think about it, this...

-----------------------Buffon
Lichsteiner--Bonucci--Chiellini--De Ceglie
--------------Marchisio----Vidal
Krasic--------------------------Pasquato/New LW
---------Vucinic/Quags----Matri

...is alot better than...

-----------------------Buffon
Grygera--Legrottaglie--Chiellini--Molinaro
--------------Marchisio----Sissoko
Camoranesi (30+)-------------------Nedved (30+)
---------Del Piero (30+)--Amauri

So someone explain to me why Pirlo should be starting now...

Because nobody on the current squad can create chances. Literally there is no creativity. A regista is essential to any team. You forget how skilled Nedved was on the LW and even Camoranesi. Del Piero was also a lot younger and fit then.

Youre ckntradicting yourself a bit. Youre saying everyteam needs a revista, yet this Juventus didnt since they had Nedved, Camo, and ADP. Your ignkring the fact that they were all over 30. That Quags/Vucinic-Matri should by all accounts this season be stronger than Del Piero-Amauri 3 years ago. If we can get a good left winger such as Elia, Bastos, or Afellay,combined with Krasic we should by roughly the same amount of strength as Nedved and Camo. Especially sincr they were both over 30, and since mlst of the time Camo was injured and Marchionni was playing. Plus Marchisios better now than he was 3 years ago, Vidal > Sissoko, Bonucci >/= Legro, Lichsteiner > Grygera, and PDC and Ziegler are both > Molinaro. So why do we need Pirlo starting, when back then with a weaker squad we finished second, beat Real twice in the CL, and competed with Chelsea I think we should drop Pirlo to tbe bench, play an attacking 442/424, and once our team gets used to playing together well challenge for everything again.

by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:17 am

The Fonz wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:I see ..So then a bad season awaits Milan..

Speriamo.

And Inter won the Trofeo TIM so if all goes according to myth, ciao ciao Milan !

Nice one ...Rome or Juve for the Scudetto then..

Would be fine by me, but I have this one Romanista friend who insults Juventus all the time so it would be bittersweet.

You see, Roma are one of those clubs I like, but because of that friend of mine, I insult them all the time. But not on this forum, because all the Romanistas are good guys. Thumbs up

But Roma over Inter, Milan, Lazio for me.

by Patrick Bateman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:23 am

JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:I see ..So then a bad season awaits Milan..

Speriamo.

And Inter won the Trofeo TIM so if all goes according to myth, ciao ciao Milan !

Nice one ...Rome or Juve for the Scudetto then..

Would be fine by me, but I have this one Romanista friend who insults Juventus all the time so it would be bittersweet.

You see, Roma are one of those clubs I like, but because of that friend of mine, I insult them all the time. But not on this forum, because all the Romanistas are good guys.

But Roma over Inter, Milan, Lazio for me.

You should tell him about this forum..I'm sure if he joined he wouldn't insult them as much.. Wink

by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:25 am

The Fonz wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:I see ..So then a bad season awaits Milan..

Speriamo.

And Inter won the Trofeo TIM so if all goes according to myth, ciao ciao Milan !

Nice one ...Rome or Juve for the Scudetto then..

Would be fine by me, but I have this one Romanista friend who insults Juventus all the time so it would be bittersweet.

You see, Roma are one of those clubs I like, but because of that friend of mine, I insult them all the time. But not on this forum, because all the Romanistas are good guys.

But Roma over Inter, Milan, Lazio for me.

You should tell him about this forum..I'm sure if he joined he wouldn't insult them as much..

Haha why do you think that ? He is one of those guys who do not understand reason. He thinks Milan taking Inzaghi, Legrottaglie, Ibrahimovic, Zambrotta, etc. is equal to Juventus buying Vucinic.

No sense or logic.

He also thinks Roma and Juventus are rivals. Lol.

by DeviAngel Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:26 am

that girl O.O :flower:

by Patrick Bateman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:29 am

JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
The Fonz wrote:I see ..So then a bad season awaits Milan..

Speriamo.

And Inter won the Trofeo TIM so if all goes according to myth, ciao ciao Milan !

Nice one ...Rome or Juve for the Scudetto then..

Would be fine by me, but I have this one Romanista friend who insults Juventus all the time so it would be bittersweet.

You see, Roma are one of those clubs I like, but because of that friend of mine, I insult them all the time. But not on this forum, because all the Romanistas are good guys.

But Roma over Inter, Milan, Lazio for me.

You should tell him about this forum..I'm sure if he joined he wouldn't insult them as much..

Haha why do you think that ? He is one of those guys who do not understand reason. He thinks Milan taking Inzaghi, Legrottaglie, Ibrahimovic, Zambrotta, etc. is equal to Juventus buying Vucinic.

No sense or logic.

He also thinks Roma and Juventus are rivals. Lol.

Well we sort of are Nick..Alot of hatred between Roma and Juve in Italy..Esp after when Capello left for Juve a few seasons back..

by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:31 am

Fonz, those are different types of rivals, sort of recent ones.

But I mean, you are behind Torino, and Fiorentina who are our historic rivals.

The Milans and Roma are rivals because they are strong like Juventus, but historically, we are not brother.

by Patrick Bateman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:34 am

DeviAngel wrote:that girl O.O :flower:

Juventus vs Milan | Berlusconi Cup - Page 7 15ot0l2

by Patrick Bateman Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:35 am

JuvenelCuore wrote:Fonz, those are different types of rivals, sort of recent ones.

But I mean, you are behind Torino, and Fiorentina who are our historic rivals.

The Milans and Roma are rivals because they are strong like Juventus, but historically, we are not brother.

Fair point....

by Guest Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:00 am

juventus101 wrote:I reaply dont see the need for a regista starting.

This just goes to show you lack the knowledge within our new system. Back then, we never depended on a regista for the simplest reasons of that we were not an attacking squad, our tactics were all based with 4-4-2's defending and going on the counter attacks. Now it's all change, now we are using a 4-2-4 with our wingers placed more up in which now we play with a more attacking style. A strategy based all on ball possesion, direct passes, specific movements, attacking approaches and most importantly starting all plays from the back and move them forward and here is the reason why Pirlo is needed. In order to accomplish that, you need a Regista, a deep lying play maker who stays in front of the defense creating all the plays from the back, someone with vision who is capable of finding players and having the right skill to navigate the ball to those players.

by DeviAngel Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:03 am

no ball circulating without regista and that is big fail to our system

by Guest Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:05 am

DeviAngel wrote:no ball circulating without regista and that is big fail to our system

Basically what I said, but to the point Razz

by tareks Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:03 am

juventus101 wrote:I think its obvious that if we play a 424, pirlo needs to be benched. Hes simply too lazy defensively and then our midfield gets overrun. Also, Vidal is a center mid, not a winger. Also, Krasic is not unbenchable if he doesnt get his form back. I think a 424 with Krasic and Afellay or Pasquato on the wings, Vidal and Marchisio in the center, and Quags and Matri up top is the best option. But Pirlo needs to bebenched for a 424, or even a 442. Hes too lazy for a 2-man central midfield.

Finally,Someone's talking LOGICALLY! Thumbs up

by Luca Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:10 am

tareks wrote:
juventus101 wrote:I think its obvious that if we play a 424, pirlo needs to be benched. Hes simply too lazy defensively and then our midfield gets overrun. Also, Vidal is a center mid, not a winger. Also, Krasic is not unbenchable if he doesnt get his form back. I think a 424 with Krasic and Afellay or Pasquato on the wings, Vidal and Marchisio in the center, and Quags and Matri up top is the best option. But Pirlo needs to bebenched for a 424, or even a 442. Hes too lazy for a 2-man central midfield.

Finally,Someone's talking LOGICALLY!

While that fixes one problem it creates an equal sized one.
Vidal would have so much responsibility, he would basically be replacing Pirlo and doing a lot of dirty work, that is too much to ask of one player.
I think Marchisio needs to be more influential personally, he really needs to control the play defensively as Pirlo does offensively. He needs to be the complete opposite of Pirlo almost, work hard defensively and just sit on top of the defense and boss the game.

Pirlo dictates the play, he is also a sure-fire starter, he is needed. He can create chances at any moment in the game.

by juventus101 Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:23 am

We didnt play defensivefootball back then. Our counterswereour best weapon, but we werecertainly not a defensive team. We were almost perfectly balanced and thats what we need most, as I think if we play Pirlo in a two man mid, were TOO attacking. And Marchisio losingthe midfield battle in a 1 vs 3 situation is not Marchisios fault. Its Pirlos. Regista or not, in a 2-man mid, you cant be lazy defensively. Pirlo is. Simple as that. A 433 would work ifwecan get a real world class game changer, but unless we do, I dont think Krasic-Matri-Vucinic/Quags with Pirlo feeding them from thd back is strong enough attack-wise. So we need a 424/442, which means no Pirlo. We did it 3 years ago and it was great, with worse/older players. And we were not defensive as I explained before, we were an almost perfectly balanced team. Theres no reason we shouldnt do the same thing.

by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:24 am

Lazy defensively ? Are you aware of Pirlo's position or...

by tareks Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:26 am

Luca wrote:
tareks wrote:
juventus101 wrote:I think its obvious that if we play a 424, pirlo needs to be benched. Hes simply too lazy defensively and then our midfield gets overrun. Also, Vidal is a center mid, not a winger. Also, Krasic is not unbenchable if he doesnt get his form back. I think a 424 with Krasic and Afellay or Pasquato on the wings, Vidal and Marchisio in the center, and Quags and Matri up top is the best option. But Pirlo needs to bebenched for a 424, or even a 442. Hes too lazy for a 2-man central midfield.

Finally,Someone's talking LOGICALLY!

While that fixes one problem it creates an equal sized one.
Vidal would have so much responsibility, he would basically be replacing Pirlo and doing a lot of dirty work, that is too much to ask of one player.
I think Marchisio needs to be more influential personally, he really needs to control the play defensively as Pirlo does offensively. He needs to be the complete opposite of Pirlo almost, work hard defensively and just sit on top of the defense and boss the game.

Pirlo dictates the play, he is also a sure-fire starter, he is needed. He can create chances at any moment in the game.

Pirlo's work,isn't that much hard,as he barely got the ball & passes it straightly,so you can't ask Marchisio to do the whole covering job @ mid & compare it to Pirlo's work!Plus I can't find a logic reason about that full support from most of you guys to Pirlo :!: I mean he's good I love him,but he shouldn't be a starter,as he's too slow,he can't go on with the ball for more than 1/2 steps(so he should directly pass it in any possible way,which is not good,specially with that non-defensive role from him).

Moreover,I didn't heard that much about Vucinic situation :?: I really hope that Quag will be our SS alongside Matri,as he's much worker & had more skills than Lazy Vucinic.Even if he got a goal,it's all about Alex,& tbh all I've seen from Vucinic till now is "not-bad" as a CF & not as SS Evil or Very Mad

by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:27 am

Wow I have never met people so uneducated in all my life.

by Luca Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:31 am

tareks wrote:
Luca wrote:
tareks wrote:
juventus101 wrote:I think its obvious that if we play a 424, pirlo needs to be benched. Hes simply too lazy defensively and then our midfield gets overrun. Also, Vidal is a center mid, not a winger. Also, Krasic is not unbenchable if he doesnt get his form back. I think a 424 with Krasic and Afellay or Pasquato on the wings, Vidal and Marchisio in the center, and Quags and Matri up top is the best option. But Pirlo needs to bebenched for a 424, or even a 442. Hes too lazy for a 2-man central midfield.

Finally,Someone's talking LOGICALLY!

While that fixes one problem it creates an equal sized one.
Vidal would have so much responsibility, he would basically be replacing Pirlo and doing a lot of dirty work, that is too much to ask of one player.
I think Marchisio needs to be more influential personally, he really needs to control the play defensively as Pirlo does offensively. He needs to be the complete opposite of Pirlo almost, work hard defensively and just sit on top of the defense and boss the game.

Pirlo dictates the play, he is also a sure-fire starter, he is needed. He can create chances at any moment in the game.

Pirlo's work,isn't that much hard,as he barely got the ball & passes it straightly,so you can't ask Marchisio to do the whole covering job @ mid & compare it to Pirlo's work!Plus I can't find a logic reason about that full support from most of you guys to Pirlo :!: I mean he's good I love him,but he shouldn't be a starter,as he's too slow,he can't go on with the ball for more than 1/2 steps(so he should directly pass it in any possible way,which is not good,specially with that non-defensive role from him).

Moreover,I didn't heard that much about Vucinic situation :?: I really hope that Quag will be our SS alongside Matri,as he's much worker & had more skills than Lazy Vucinic.Even if he got a goal,it's all about Alex,& tbh all I've seen from Vucinic till now is "not-bad" as a CF & not as SS

I don't think you understand what a regista is or what he does. So, I'm going to avoid this argument for the time being.
He isn't supposed to carry the ball, he is supposed to distribute it and he does it at the highest level period.

by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:40 am

Luca, these muppets are clueless. Leave them be.

Pirlo lazy defensively. That deserves a thread of its own.

by juventus101 Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:42 am

Yes I am aware. And as much ss you say "its not hisjob to defend" he still is a part of a centrr midfield. Aquilani wasforced to help out Melo defensively lastseason so he did. When he didnt, we were overrun, so as the season wore on he learned, and helped out more and more. Pirlo needs to learn to stop being lazy defensively, or shouldnt be starting. Simple as that. Thats why a regista is best in a 3man mid, cuzhe doesnt have to defend. But in a 2 man mid, he should. Look at Aquilani last season.

And dont tell me im uneducated or call me a muppet. If you want to disagree then go ahead and disagree, but dont insult me.

by JuvenelCuore Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:46 am

juventus101 wrote:Yes I am aware. And as much ss you say "its not hisjob to defend" he still is a part of a centrr midfield. Aquilani wasforced to help out Melo defensively lastseason so he did. When he didnt, we were overrun, so as the season wore on he learned, and helped out more and more. Pirlo needs to learn to stop being lazy defensively, or shouldnt be starting. Simple as that. Thats why a regista is best in a 3man mid, cuzhe doesnt have to defend. But in a 2 man mid, he should. Look at Aquilani last season.

And dont tell me im uneducated or call me a muppet. If you want to disagree then go ahead and disagree, but dont insult me.

You just said Pirlo is defensively lazy. Yeah, next we should not let Buffon take the goal kicks because his dribbling his bad. Oh, Juventus should train Bonucci on how to take free kicks and shoot from 30-yards. It is not his job or primary purpose, but meh, he should do it because he is part of the team.

None of what you said has made sense. I literally have no response to it because it is baseless, and it really makes it out to seem like you just turned on the game today for the first time in your life. Apart the fact Pirlo is not exactly built for defending, it is quite obvious he is a creative midfielder.

by juventus101 Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:57 am

Yes, it is obvious that Pirlo is a creative midfielder. The same goesfor Aquilani. But he still defended. Why do you think Milan always played with a 3 man mid? Cause Gattuso alone could not support Pirlo defensively. To play a2 man midfield, they both have to work defensively. Im noy sying Pirlo has to become a DM, but look at how Aquilani learned to tracj back more last season. Thats at I want from Pirlo. If he cant do that, then he shouldnt be starting. And your exampleswere way too extreme. Much better examples are Lichsteiners main purpose is to defend, but he should also me overlapping runs and cross the ball. Or when Nedved was a pure winger, he still had to trackback and defend quite a bit. So youre telling me that Nedved, Camoranesi, and Krasic all track(ed) back, but Pirlo shouldnt have to? Youre right thatits not his primary purpose, but he still needs to do it in a 2-man midfield. Aquilani did it. The exact same thing applies to Pirlo.

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