Gaddafi's Regime is Collapsing!

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Post by The Messiah Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:38 pm

@RedOranje wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:Yes, I am not just a law student, I am doing my masters in law.

I dont believe Free Masons and Illuminati run the world, Freemasons and Illuminti run the world.

I swear with everything that this is truth, I have read different books, particularly I will suggest that you read the looting of Benin.

Aaaand that's why you study Law, and not History, mate. Gaddafi's Regime is Collapsing! - Page 17 2859867778

Law covers everything Including history, Laws are made out of historical traditions, believes, Morals and conventions.


Now point out one thing that makes you say I am full of shit, just one.
I was also and Historian student before my parent force me into Law, with that said being a Law student doesn't mean you can not do your research on history or seek the truth...
Coming from someone who is getting a double major in History and PoliSci for Pre-law: You're full of shit.

Now you are resulting to insults, come on if you want to have a dialogue that will be ok with me, instead of insults.

I just gave you some historical facts about my own tribe, I usually do not even talk about where I am from, I dont leave my name on background online but I did it for the first time and you are saying I am full of shit.

Listen you never know the bad side of thing if you are not the one experiencing it

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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:42 pm

Mate, it doesn't help if you confuse "colonization", and "huge conspiracy including several sects of free masons". :/

I don't dispute the pillaging of most of Africa by European powers, I just don't think it took the Free Masons or Illuminati to make our grand parents behave like dicks.
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Post by The Messiah Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:58 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:Mate, it doesn't help if you confuse "colonization", and "huge conspiracy including several sects of free masons". :/

I don't dispute the pillaging of most of Africa by European powers, I just don't think it took the Free Masons or Illuminati to make our grand parents behave like dicks.

You dont understand dont you.? Anyways there's nothing I will say that will make you understand so is better you keep your opinion to yourself and I keep mine to myself, Nothing will ever change is just the world we live in.


Masons and Illuminati are one and thesame, do you actually believe they dont really have so much power..? serious have you ever asked yourself that question or you just feel is absolute nonsense, have you ever made any effort to seek the truth or you just believe this.

Admiral Sir Harry Rawson was a Mason and he doesn't even deny it. HE was a colonial master.

Federick Lord Lugard was a Mason, another colonial master.

Nearly if not all colonial masters were Masons and they dont even deny it, the treasure and wealth they took from African are currently in the hands or possession of other Masons in this current time.

Even if you go as far back as during the time of frederick barbarossa, Godfrey,Philip Augustus, Richard the lionheart, this people were all member of knight templar who forcefully invade countries and control them for power.

As we all know knight templar survived even after French King and the Pope attempted to exterminate them, they are currently Masons, Illuminati, bilderberg, and such such and such.


All this things are history, remember the old say history always repeats itself. No one single group we have today emerged from nothing say for example you can trace today terrorist group such as El Qaeda to having thesame suicide assassination ideology with ancient Hashashin.





Last edited by Idrisozet on Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:09 pm

Idrisozet wrote:You dont understand dont you.? Anyways there's nothing I will say that will make you understand so is better you keep your opinion to yourself and I keep mine to myself, Nothing will ever change is just the world we live in.


Masons and Illuminati are one and thesame, do you actually believe they dont really have so much power..? serious have you ever asked yourself that question you just feel is absolute nonsense, have you ever made any effort to seek the truth or you just believe this.

No they're not the same. The Illuminati are a secular society founded in Ingolstadt, Bavaria, the Free Masons aren't.
The thing they both had in common were that they were mostly about nepotism, but which society isn't? They're like political parties or fraternities, in that sense.

Admiral Sir Harry Rawson was a Mason and he doesn't even deny it. HE was a colonial master.

Federick Lord Lugard was a Mason, another colonial master.

And Angela Merkel has a doctorate in chemistry, that doesn't mean that the Eurozone is ruled by the community of chemical scientists.

I'm a member of the Green Party but that doesn't mean that the Green control my Apartment.

Mitt Romney is a Mormon, but that doesn't mean the Mormons controlled Massachusetts. You catch my drift, mate?

Even if you go as far back as during the time of frederick barbarossa, Godfrey, Richard the lionheart, this people were all member of knight templar who forcefully invade countries and control them for power.

Not denying that. In fact: Yep, that's true.

As we all know knight templar survived even after French King and the Pope attempted to exterminate them, they are currently Masons, Illuminati and such such and such.

"Survived" is overstating it. The Free Mason lodges were in part founded on some of the values of the Knights Templars, but they're not the same thing, nor are they successors in any meaningful way.


All this things are history, no one single group emerge from nothing say for example you trace today terrorist group to as far back as Hashashi.

The Hashishim are actually a great example. Because that#s not how history works. Because you can't trace Al Qaeda back to the Hashishim, for example. Or the German RAF. No connection to the Hashishim as well.

I'm sorry, you're mixing different levels of facts together where there's no connection.

Or as a Social Scientist will tell you (or any scientist, in fact) - the ONE rule conspiracy theorists always ignore: CORRELATION ISN'T THE SAME AS CAUSALITY.

Occam's Razor is also always a nice shoutout.

Cheers.
:coffee:
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Post by kiranr Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:19 pm

"CORRELATION ISN'T THE SAME AS CAUSALITY."

You dont need to be a scientist to say that. Anyone with a college degree can say that!

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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:41 pm

You don't need to have any degree to know that the conspiracy theories are BS as well, but it sure helps. :X
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Post by The Messiah Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:52 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:You dont understand dont you.? Anyways there's nothing I will say that will make you understand so is better you keep your opinion to yourself and I keep mine to myself, Nothing will ever change is just the world we live in.


Masons and Illuminati are one and thesame, do you actually believe they dont really have so much power..? serious have you ever asked yourself that question you just feel is absolute nonsense, have you ever made any effort to seek the truth or you just believe this.

No they're not the same. The Illuminati are a secular society founded in Ingolstadt, Bavaria, the Free Masons aren't.
The thing they both had in common were that they were mostly about nepotism, but which society isn't? They're like political parties or fraternities, in that sense.

Admiral Sir Harry Rawson was a Mason and he doesn't even deny it. HE was a colonial master.

Federick Lord Lugard was a Mason, another colonial master.

And Angela Merkel has a doctorate in chemistry, that doesn't mean that the Eurozone is ruled by the community of chemical scientists.

I'm a member of the Green Party but that doesn't mean that the Green control my Apartment.

Mitt Romney is a Mormon, but that doesn't mean the Mormons controlled Massachusetts. You catch my drift, mate?

Even if you go as far back as during the time of frederick barbarossa, Godfrey, Richard the lionheart, this people were all member of knight templar who forcefully invade countries and control them for power.

Not denying that. In fact: Yep, that's true.

As we all know knight templar survived even after French King and the Pope attempted to exterminate them, they are currently Masons, Illuminati and such such and such.

"Survived" is overstating it. The Free Mason lodges were in part founded on some of the values of the Knights Templars, but they're not the same thing, nor are they successors in any meaningful way.


All this things are history, no one single group emerge from nothing say for example you trace today terrorist group to as far back as Hashashi.

The Hashishim are actually a great example. Because that#s not how history works. Because you can't trace Al Qaeda back to the Hashishim, for example. Or the German RAF. No connection to the Hashishim as well.

knight templar
Or as a Social Scientist will tell you (or any scientist, in fact) - the ONE rule conspiracy theorists always ignore: CORRELATION ISN'T THE SAME AS CAUSALITY.

Occam's Razor is also always a nice shoutout.

Cheers.
:coffee:

What you did there might confuse many people especially those who share your views or people that understand little.

First of all, Illuminati members are all Masons but not all Masons are Illuminati, even if the organisation is different but the people who run it are thesame. That's what I meant about them being thesame, not how they originated.

Secondly what you did there regarding Lord Luggard and Admiral Sir Harry Rawson and colonial masters in Africa being Masons and then support or should I say oppose it with say like Angela Merkel has a doctorate in chemistry, that doesn't mean that the Eurozone is ruled by the community of chemical scientists. etc

This is know as deception, a typical example of deception, a foolish way to deceive sheeple, by trying to ignore the fact and reality and just say anything that sounds nice

I give you a typical reality example about how in 1897, Admiral Sir Harry Rawson who is Mason sacked a small Africa empire killed and stole their treasure and more than 100years later in 2011 those bloody treasures are owned by Rothschild Family another Mason member, do you know how much they have made from them over the last 100years and do you know how much they are still making..?

and you bringing up things like, Mitt Romney is a Mormon, but that doesn't mean the Mormons controlled Massachusetts. You catch my drift, mate?

That makes absolutely no sense, we are talking about reality here mate, Do you know how many people have died over this..? how many Africans and Indians died in the hands of Masonic company such as British East India Company, Royal Niger Company...? and how many Africans are still dying in the hands of Haliburton(another company own by Masons), in Nigeria you have the Niger-Delta kidnapping them and fighting the puppet government causing absolute destructions to farm lands and oil linkage to river and sea's, leading to the death of people, destruction of businesses, do you know how much they profit from this..? I mean when that linkage happened in America didn't you see they ratified it quickly but in Nigeria Haliburton does this all the time and just bribe the puppet politicians with money and how about those Bloody Diamond that cause thousand of death in Sierra Leone that are being sold by Masonic Companies in European and all over the world.

I would expect you as a Human being to at least first consider or reflect over the evidence that so many Colonial masters were Masons, instead of debunking the ideal straight ahead with those sugar-goat deception say and claiming because they were mason doesn't mean they colonise Africa or govern the world.

I mean how do you want them to do it, to openly come out and say we are Masons and we are colonising Africa.? no that is not possible they know their own citizen will revolt against this.

The only possible way is having Masonic member control those states, like they have been doing and still doing.

Regarding Knight knight templar, every one knows Knight Templars and Masons are not thesame group but Masons are dissident group that emerge from Templar, that's why they have so many things in common.

Say for example in recent years.

You have the IRA in Britain that have existed for over 100years and within those years numerous dissident group has emerged out of that group and some have even broken apart from the main group but that doesn't still stop them from being a dissident group. My point here is Mason dissident group of Templar although you can say the are not thesame.


History repeats itself and it's human nature that certain tribe or race share their ancestry ideals, that is the reason why I said Hashashi Ideal of assassination through suicide can be find in modern day Al Qaeda.

I studied Terrorism law and seriously although Hashahin had no direct link with Al Qaeda because that is impossible considering the time they existed but it is generally accepted even in western world that there is link between their ideal.

I am not mixing different level of fact with no connection, I am just trying to prove to you and show you the links on how Masons have been involving with the Governance of the world from Africa to Europe, to Middle east even as far back as 1000years ago up-till date.


The only different fact is Hashashi and AL Qeada and I only said that to try and prove to you the connection between ancient group and modern group in order to support my point that History repeat itself


This are not even conspiracy theory, this are well documented facts.

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Post by che Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:13 pm

Idrisozet wrote:

Masons and Illuminati are one and thesame, do you actually believe they dont really have so much power..? serious have you ever asked yourself that question or you just feel is absolute nonsense, have you ever made any effort to seek the truth or you just believe this.

Admiral Sir Harry Rawson was a Mason and he doesn't even deny it. HE was a colonial master.

Federick Lord Lugard was a Mason, another colonial master.

Nearly if not all colonial masters were Masons and they dont even deny it, the treasure and wealth they took from African are currently in the hands or possession of other Masons in this current time

:facepalm:

a prime example of why democracy doesn't work... when people like this have a vote of an equal power to that of a scientist
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Post by The Messiah Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:23 pm

@che wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:

Masons and Illuminati are one and thesame, do you actually believe they dont really have so much power..? serious have you ever asked yourself that question or you just feel is absolute nonsense, have you ever made any effort to seek the truth or you just believe this.

Admiral Sir Harry Rawson was a Mason and he doesn't even deny it. HE was a colonial master.

Federick Lord Lugard was a Mason, another colonial master.

Nearly if not all colonial masters were Masons and they dont even deny it, the treasure and wealth they took from African are currently in the hands or possession of other Masons in this current time

:facepalm:

a prime example of why democracy doesn't work... when people like this have a vote of an equal power to that of a scientist

You are probably trying to say I am a moron but in an ideal democratic state even Morons should have their say.

and if you ask me I dont see anything wrong with what I said otherwise be a gentle man and explain things since you feel you are a scientist
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Post by The Messiah Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:23 pm

@che wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:

Masons and Illuminati are one and thesame, do you actually believe they dont really have so much power..? serious have you ever asked yourself that question or you just feel is absolute nonsense, have you ever made any effort to seek the truth or you just believe this.

Admiral Sir Harry Rawson was a Mason and he doesn't even deny it. HE was a colonial master.

Federick Lord Lugard was a Mason, another colonial master.

Nearly if not all colonial masters were Masons and they dont even deny it, the treasure and wealth they took from African are currently in the hands or possession of other Masons in this current time

:facepalm:

a prime example of why democracy doesn't work... when people like this have a vote of an equal power to that of a scientist

You are probably trying to say I am a moron but in an ideal democratic state even Morons should have their say.

and if you ask me I dont see anything wrong with what I said otherwise be a gentle man and explain things since you feel you are a scientist
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Post by che Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:26 pm

i don't feel i'm a scientist, i feel i'm a person who doesn't feel the need to look for conspiracies and appreciates basic logical thinking

viva blew your argument full of holes and your comeback was basically "nuh uh, i'm totally right" and a bunch of irrelevant anecdotes, so pardon me for not bothering to debate
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Post by The Messiah Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:34 pm

@che wrote:i don't feel i'm a scientist, i feel i'm a person who doesn't feel the need to look for conspiracies and appreciates basic logical thinking

viva blew your argument full of holes and your comeback was basically "nuh uh, i'm totally right" and a bunch of irrelevant anecdotes, so pardon me for not bothering to debate

What is a conspiracy theory that Admiral Sir Harry Rawson is A mason and most colonial masters were Masons..? this just show how uneducated you are...?

This are fact not conspiracy theory, well documented fact.

This not even a theory at all.

Listen I am not just your everyday person that listen to news and read newspapers, I dont need to say much about myself but there is no way you can have logical debate with me, neither Viva without resulting to aggression or insults.


Last edited by Idrisozet on Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by che Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:41 pm

no, see, they might as well have been members of some glorified country club but that is not a causal link to freemasons controlling the world

google occam's razor, it will help... where conspiracy nutjobs such as yourself see a grand scheme where jews or whoever are trying to secretly rule everyone through satanic messages in lady gaga videos, normal people see a bunch of rich people who are trying to get even richer... big deal
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Post by The Messiah Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:52 pm

@che wrote:no, see, they might as well have been members of some glorified country club but that is not a causal link to freemasons controlling the world

google occam's razor, it will help... where conspiracy nutjobs such as yourself see a grand scheme where jews or whoever are trying to secretly rule everyone through satanic messages in lady gaga videos, normal people see a bunch of rich people who are trying to get even richer... big deal


Now that is conspiracy theory, which I dont even believe in.

far different from the fact that colonial masters were Masons and the company I mentioned are well know to be Masonic companies.

Another thing dont be surprise if I am richer than you would think, maybe richer than some of your celebs, you never know.

Trust me I am not just your everyday person


My point is Masons control the world, if you go back in history and look at what they have done and still doing and what they own, you will know they have so much power, you just need to do your research on it
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Post by Senor Penguin Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:17 am

Idrisozet wrote:
@che wrote:i don't feel i'm a scientist, i feel i'm a person who doesn't feel the need to look for conspiracies and appreciates basic logical thinking

viva blew your argument full of holes and your comeback was basically "nuh uh, i'm totally right" and a bunch of irrelevant anecdotes, so pardon me for not bothering to debate

What is a conspiracy theory that Admiral Sir Harry Rawson is A mason and most colonial masters were Masons..? this just show how uneducated you are...?

This are fact not conspiracy theory, well documented fact.

This not even a theory at all.

Listen I am not just your everyday person that listen to news and read newspapers, I dont need to say much about myself but there is no way you can have logical debate with me, neither Viva without resulting to aggression or insults.
Your premise that the world is run by the Illuminati and the Freemasons isn't valid just because a bunch of people some time in history shared a Freemason background and did some bad stuff.

In other words, when you conclude that the Freemasons - as an organization - are planning, coercing and executing bad stuff based on such facts, it's not actually proof of a conspiracy, but rather proof of your conjecture. Therefor it's still a conspiracy theory.

If I applied the same logic and had to draw a conclusion about today's Germany, I would've concluded that it's still being run by Nazi's because sometime in history many Germans shared the Nazi-belief. Obviously that's not the case.

P.S. I'm not a University student. tongue

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:48 pm

I dont get it, why dont all you conspiracy theorists go join a lodge? I mean if it gives you access to unlimited power, why not?

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Post by MJ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:03 pm

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:I dont get it, why dont all you conspiracy theorists go join a lodge? I mean if it gives you access to unlimited power, why not?


hahaha snickers
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Post by The Messiah Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:20 am

@Senor Penguin wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:
@che wrote:i don't feel i'm a scientist, i feel i'm a person who doesn't feel the need to look for conspiracies and appreciates basic logical thinking

viva blew your argument full of holes and your comeback was basically "nuh uh, i'm totally right" and a bunch of irrelevant anecdotes, so pardon me for not bothering to debate

What is a conspiracy theory that Admiral Sir Harry Rawson is A mason and most colonial masters were Masons..? this just show how uneducated you are...?

This are fact not conspiracy theory, well documented fact.

This not even a theory at all.

Listen I am not just your everyday person that listen to news and read newspapers, I dont need to say much about myself but there is no way you can have logical debate with me, neither Viva without resulting to aggression or insults.
Your premise that the world is run by the Illuminati and the Freemasons isn't valid just because a bunch of people some time in history shared a Freemason background and did some bad stuff.

In other words, when you conclude that the Freemasons - as an organization - are planning, coercing and executing bad stuff based on such facts, it's not actually proof of a conspiracy, but rather proof of your conjecture. Therefor it's still a conspiracy theory.

If I applied the same logic and had to draw a conclusion about today's Germany, I would've concluded that it's still being run by Nazi's because sometime in history many Germans shared the Nazi-belief. Obviously that's not the case.

P.S. I'm not a University student. tongue

Basically what you are here to do is try and educate me rather than have a debate, I mean anyone can do that, anyone can just claim whatever they like, say for example like how you are trying to turn well documented historical fact into conjecture and conspiracy theories. I dont deny it I believe Masons exist and no one denies that and I also believe they do actually control the world, the western world in particular.

The historical fact I provided are well documented and are still visible to everyone, they are not my conjecture or conspiracy Theory, this are fact that every Human being can decide to reflect upon, there are many other example but I just decided to point this one out since I am a Descendant of chief Ologbosere, who was killed by that Masonic Admiral Sir Harry Rawsonas far back in 1897.

If Masons do not run the world then how come nearly almost every powerful people in recent time and history are Masons, they have been causing lots of havoc in the world, from Africa to Europe to Knight Templars up-till now, I dont really want to go into this but let me just keep this elementary maybe you might understand were I am coming from.


1 1897 Benin sacked and invaded by Mason Admiral Sir Harry Rawson, killed the chiefs, warriors, Kings and civilians, burnt the city, destroyed our legendary Benin wall and stole the kingdoms valuables and made out of them treasures and bounties.

Evidence of this is the Benin mask, which is still being held in British Museum against the will of my people, who have requested for all this treasures back, worth over £1.2 billion in monetary value not to mention cultural and historical value. To us it's like invading America and stealing the the statute of liberty or something worth much more in cultural value. This Artifact belongs to our forefathers it represent our history and culture, they were held in our kingdom for over a thousand years before the Masons decided to kill and take them forcefully to enrich their own interest, like they are doing to oil rich nation in modern days
Gaddafi's Regime is Collapsing! - Page 17 44137
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MASK MEANS TO US? IT WAS STOLEN FORCEFULLY, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIED 100 YEARS AGO IN ORDER TO PROTECT IT AND STILL 100 YEARS HAS PASSED AND MASONS IN BRITAIN STILL HOLDS IT AGAINST OUR WILL. ALTHOUGH IT'S BEEN MORE THAN 100YEARS BUT EVERY CHILD BORN INSIDE OR OUTSIDE BENIN (ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD) KNOWS ABOUT THE CULTURAL VALUE OF THAT MASK, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS NOT SEEN AFRICA SINCE IT WAS STOLEN IN 1897.

I MEAN THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S WORTH SO MUCH TO US A TRIBE, PEOPLE OR (KINGDOM), PEOPLE HAVE DIED TRYING TO PROTECT IT BUT YET MASON'S HAVE IT IN THEIR MUSEUM TO SHOW IT OFF TO EUROPEAN KIDS AND MAKE MONEY OF IT. WHAT OTHER MOCKERY IS WORST THAN THAT...? HOW CRUEL CAN IT GET?

We've requested for all the treasure or at least just that one which has more value to use culturally but the answers God forsaken Masons give is, "we are not here to correct historical wrong" I mean we are not asking anyone to compensate us for killing our people and destroying our kingdom, WE JUST WANT OUR BELONGINGS BACK.

My point is what a co incidence that in 1897 Admiral Sir Harry Rawson a Mason stole our artefacts and more than 100 years later it belongs to the British Museum which is owned by Rothschild another Mason. what co incidence that Mason had everything to do with everything.

http://www.elginism.com/20090405/1894/
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Post by Senor Penguin Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:46 am

Idrisozet wrote:
@Senor Penguin wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:
@che wrote:i don't feel i'm a scientist, i feel i'm a person who doesn't feel the need to look for conspiracies and appreciates basic logical thinking

viva blew your argument full of holes and your comeback was basically "nuh uh, i'm totally right" and a bunch of irrelevant anecdotes, so pardon me for not bothering to debate

What is a conspiracy theory that Admiral Sir Harry Rawson is A mason and most colonial masters were Masons..? this just show how uneducated you are...?

This are fact not conspiracy theory, well documented fact.

This not even a theory at all.

Listen I am not just your everyday person that listen to news and read newspapers, I dont need to say much about myself but there is no way you can have logical debate with me, neither Viva without resulting to aggression or insults.
Your premise that the world is run by the Illuminati and the Freemasons isn't valid just because a bunch of people some time in history shared a Freemason background and did some bad stuff.

In other words, when you conclude that the Freemasons - as an organization - are planning, coercing and executing bad stuff based on such facts, it's not actually proof of a conspiracy, but rather proof of your conjecture. Therefor it's still a conspiracy theory.

If I applied the same logic and had to draw a conclusion about today's Germany, I would've concluded that it's still being run by Nazi's because sometime in history many Germans shared the Nazi-belief. Obviously that's not the case.

P.S. I'm not a University student. tongue

Basically what you are here to do is try and educate me rather than have a debate, I mean anyone can do that, anyone can just claim whatever they like, say for example like how you are trying to turn well documented historical fact into conjecture and conspiracy theories. I dont deny it I believe Masons exist and no one denies that and I also believe they do actually control the world, the western world in particular.
You make no sense. First of all, I'm not trying to educate anyone. I'm just stating what's obvious - that you're drawing feeble conclusions that don't correlate with the evidence you present.

The historical fact I provided are well documented and are still visible to everyone, they are not my conjecture or conspiracy Theory,
Yes it is if the premise and conclusion from it is that the Freemasons run the world.

this are fact that every Human being can decide to reflect upon, there are many other example but I just decided to point this one out since I am a Descendant of chief Ologbosere, who was killed by that Masonic Admiral Sir Harry Rawsonas far back in 1897.

If Masons do not run the world then how come nearly almost every powerful people in recent time and history are Masons, they have been causing lots of havoc in the world, from Africa to Europe to Knight Templars up-till now, I dont really want to go into this but let me just keep this elementary maybe you might understand were I am coming from.
Likewise there were many influential Freemasons through history who have contributed to society and done a great deal of good. One of them was Benjamin Franklin.

1 1897 Benin sacked and invaded by Mason Admiral Sir Harry Rawson, killed the chiefs, warriors, Kings and civilians, burnt the city, destroyed our legendary Benin wall and stole the kingdoms valuables and made out of them treasures and bounties.

Evidence of this is the Benin mask, which is still being held in British Museum against the will of my people, who have requested for all this treasures back, worth over £1.2 billion in monetary value not to mention cultural and historical value. To us it's like invading America and stealing the the statute of liberty or something worth much more in cultural value. This Artifact belongs to our forefathers it represent our history and culture, they were held in our kingdom for over a thousand years before the Masons decided to kill and take them forcefully to enrich their own interest, like they are doing to oil rich nation in modern days
Gaddafi's Regime is Collapsing! - Page 17 44137
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MASK MEANS TO US? IT WAS STOLEN FORCEFULLY, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIED 100 YEARS AGO IN ORDER TO PROTECT IT AND STILL 100 YEARS HAS PASSED AND MASONS IN BRITAIN STILL HOLDS IT AGAINST OUR WILL. ALTHOUGH IT'S BEEN MORE THAN 100YEARS BUT EVERY CHILD BORN INSIDE OR OUTSIDE BENIN (ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD) KNOWS ABOUT THE CULTURAL VALUE OF THAT MASK, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS NOT SEEN AFRICA SINCE IT WAS STOLEN IN 1897.

I MEAN THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S WORTH SO MUCH TO US A TRIBE, PEOPLE OR (KINGDOM), PEOPLE HAVE DIED TRYING TO PROTECT IT BUT YET MASON'S HAVE IT IN THEIR MUSEUM TO SHOW IT OFF TO EUROPEAN KIDS AND MAKE MONEY OF IT. WHAT OTHER MOCKERY IS WORST THAN THAT...? HOW CRUEL CAN IT GET?

We've requested for all the treasure or at least just that one which has more value to use culturally but the answers God forsaken Masons give is, "we are not here to correct historical wrong" I mean we are not asking anyone to compensate us for killing our people and destroying our kingdom, WE JUST WANT OUR BELONGINGS BACK.

My point is what a co incidence that in 1897 Admiral Sir Harry Rawson a Mason stole our artefacts and more than 100 years later it belongs to the British Museum which is owned by Rothschild another Mason. what co incidence that Mason had everything to do with everything.

http://www.elginism.com/20090405/1894/
I fail to see how this correlates to the theory that the world is run by Masons. Assuming the information you provided is true, it just leads me to the conclusion that some rich Freemasons have owned the British museum for generations and that they don't want to let go of the artifacts they robbed many years ago.

If these people happened to be Jews, too, would that also have led you to the conclusion that Jews are running the world? The logic is pretty much the same.

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Post by The Messiah Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:42 pm

@Senor Penguin wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:
@Senor Penguin wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:
@che wrote:i don't feel i'm a scientist, i feel i'm a person who doesn't feel the need to look for conspiracies and appreciates basic logical thinking

viva blew your argument full of holes and your comeback was basically "nuh uh, i'm totally right" and a bunch of irrelevant anecdotes, so pardon me for not bothering to debate

What is a conspiracy theory that Admiral Sir Harry Rawson is A mason and most colonial masters were Masons..? this just show how uneducated you are...?

This are fact not conspiracy theory, well documented fact.

This not even a theory at all.

Listen I am not just your everyday person that listen to news and read newspapers, I dont need to say much about myself but there is no way you can have logical debate with me, neither Viva without resulting to aggression or insults.
Your premise that the world is run by the Illuminati and the Freemasons isn't valid just because a bunch of people some time in history shared a Freemason background and did some bad stuff.

In other words, when you conclude that the Freemasons - as an organization - are planning, coercing and executing bad stuff based on such facts, it's not actually proof of a conspiracy, but rather proof of your conjecture. Therefor it's still a conspiracy theory.

If I applied the same logic and had to draw a conclusion about today's Germany, I would've concluded that it's still being run by Nazi's because sometime in history many Germans shared the Nazi-belief. Obviously that's not the case.

P.S. I'm not a University student. tongue

Basically what you are here to do is try and educate me rather than have a debate, I mean anyone can do that, anyone can just claim whatever they like, say for example like how you are trying to turn well documented historical fact into conjecture and conspiracy theories. I dont deny it I believe Masons exist and no one denies that and I also believe they do actually control the world, the western world in particular.
You make no sense. First of all, I'm not trying to educate anyone. I'm just stating what's obvious - that you're drawing feeble conclusions that don't correlate with the evidence you present.

The historical fact I provided are well documented and are still visible to everyone, they are not my conjecture or conspiracy Theory,
Yes it is if the premise and conclusion from it is that the Freemasons run the world.

this are fact that every Human being can decide to reflect upon, there are many other example but I just decided to point this one out since I am a Descendant of chief Ologbosere, who was killed by that Masonic Admiral Sir Harry Rawsonas far back in 1897.

If Masons do not run the world then how come nearly almost every powerful people in recent time and history are Masons, they have been causing lots of havoc in the world, from Africa to Europe to Knight Templars up-till now, I dont really want to go into this but let me just keep this elementary maybe you might understand were I am coming from.
Likewise there were many influential Freemasons through history who have contributed to society and done a great deal of good. One of them was Benjamin Franklin.

1 1897 Benin sacked and invaded by Mason Admiral Sir Harry Rawson, killed the chiefs, warriors, Kings and civilians, burnt the city, destroyed our legendary Benin wall and stole the kingdoms valuables and made out of them treasures and bounties.

Evidence of this is the Benin mask, which is still being held in British Museum against the will of my people, who have requested for all this treasures back, worth over £1.2 billion in monetary value not to mention cultural and historical value. To us it's like invading America and stealing the the statute of liberty or something worth much more in cultural value. This Artifact belongs to our forefathers it represent our history and culture, they were held in our kingdom for over a thousand years before the Masons decided to kill and take them forcefully to enrich their own interest, like they are doing to oil rich nation in modern days
Gaddafi's Regime is Collapsing! - Page 17 44137
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MASK MEANS TO US? IT WAS STOLEN FORCEFULLY, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIED 100 YEARS AGO IN ORDER TO PROTECT IT AND STILL 100 YEARS HAS PASSED AND MASONS IN BRITAIN STILL HOLDS IT AGAINST OUR WILL. ALTHOUGH IT'S BEEN MORE THAN 100YEARS BUT EVERY CHILD BORN INSIDE OR OUTSIDE BENIN (ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD) KNOWS ABOUT THE CULTURAL VALUE OF THAT MASK, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS NOT SEEN AFRICA SINCE IT WAS STOLEN IN 1897.

I MEAN THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S WORTH SO MUCH TO US A TRIBE, PEOPLE OR (KINGDOM), PEOPLE HAVE DIED TRYING TO PROTECT IT BUT YET MASON'S HAVE IT IN THEIR MUSEUM TO SHOW IT OFF TO EUROPEAN KIDS AND MAKE MONEY OF IT. WHAT OTHER MOCKERY IS WORST THAN THAT...? HOW CRUEL CAN IT GET?

We've requested for all the treasure or at least just that one which has more value to use culturally but the answers God forsaken Masons give is, "we are not here to correct historical wrong" I mean we are not asking anyone to compensate us for killing our people and destroying our kingdom, WE JUST WANT OUR BELONGINGS BACK.

My point is what a co incidence that in 1897 Admiral Sir Harry Rawson a Mason stole our artefacts and more than 100 years later it belongs to the British Museum which is owned by Rothschild another Mason. what co incidence that Mason had everything to do with everything.

http://www.elginism.com/20090405/1894/
I fail to see how this correlates to the theory that the world is run by Masons. Assuming the information you provided is true, it just leads me to the conclusion that some rich Freemasons have owned the British museum for generations and that they don't want to let go of the artifacts they robbed many years ago.

If these people happened to be Jews, too, would that also have led you to the conclusion that Jews are running the world? The logic is pretty much the same.

That's my point, Masons have owned British Museum for generations and other leading companies in the world, which I mentioned earlier on, there is far too much link and connection between all leading companies, top individual, President, Kings, leaders and Masons, also what a co incident that they also started our current day Banking system.

There are far too many connections with Masons and the evil that has been going on in this world for centuries, if not millennium.

I gave you an example of how even a small unknown Africa kingdom had conflict with Masons 100 years ago and are still having conflict with them.

In recent days most 3rd world countries and even developed countries have problem with Halliburton another Masonic company, they are here for destruction.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MASONS...? WHAT ARE THEIR GOALS..? WHY DO WE HAVE SO MANY LEADERS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD BEING PART OF THIS ORGANISATION.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MASON..?




Last edited by Idrisozet on Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by zizzle Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:45 pm

masons or not masons, the world is being run by a dirty bunch of people who have their own sick agenda
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Post by The Messiah Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:50 pm

@zizzle wrote:masons or not masons, the world is being run by a dirty bunch of people who have their own sick agenda

Who happens to belong to an organisation know as Freemasons, what is the purpose or need of this organisation.

why have this organisation survived for so long, even when power empires like Soviet Union failed...?

How come nearly almost all past, current and future leaders are Masonic.

Why do they have to be part of this organisation..?

What is need of being a Mason...?

Why do we have it...?
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Post by zizzle Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:03 pm

well the freemasons do exist, but just because they say that previous world leaders were freemasons as well doesnt mean its true, anyway there's no way we can prove it beyond doubt since these people are dead

and there's nothing special about them surviving a few hundred years, jews has been there for like 5000 years now and they have their fair share in running the world as well

im sure that not ALL the presedents have been Masons but as a powerful and rich organization they sure have their influence on American presidents, just like the Church had its influence on many European empires in the past

ps: id really check that documentary i posted, there's no mention of the freemasons there but something tells me that neo conservatives and masons are closely related
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Post by The Messiah Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:32 pm

I am watching the documentary.

But I will advise you to read this book, "10, 000 Famous Freemason from Vols 1-4.

Most past leader had made no secret of their involvement with this Fraternity, it is is an unneeded fraternal organisation which exists in a number of forms worldwide. Throughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public.

What is the need for this organisation..?

How come they are untouchable even though they have been causing chaos and havoc for centuries.

Here are some list of some notorious masons and it was not a secret that most colonial master were Mason they dont even hide it.

Admiral Sir Harry Holdsworth Rawson was a Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of New South Wales he had no secret of his involvement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons( list of Notorious Masons.) Wikipedia is about the only source I could find since they are a secrete organisation who doesn't give out much.

Most European citizen don't care or are not bother because this people haven't cross their path compare to the evil they have done to other part of the world. what most of us dont understand is that they are the reason why almost all European citizen are living on dept, mortgages, credit cards, overdraft, installment payment they even pay their school fees with loan, eat with loan, dress on loans, buy cars on loan, go on holidays on loan, sofas loan, furniture's loans, even the beds they sleep on at night time is loan, you can't escape it.

They create a system where by it is indirectly mandatory that you bank with them(where is democracy), if you dont have a bank account how will you get paid or conclude business transactions..?

They set up a very rigid and deceptive system where by everyone will need a loan directly or indirectly and then Offer people loans, in other to imprison them mentally so they can benefit from it financially and then make them pay back through their assess with all those fees and charges and kick them out of their houses, along with their family, some people even commit suicide as a result of pressures from bank.

Have you ever seen a man in debt, his like a prisoner, has absolutely no rest of mind, has no time to reflect and ponder about what is going on in his society not to mention the world, all he does is finding way to pay back his loans, maybe with other loans his only saving grace is entertaining himself with music, football forums and then pretend everything is ok by watching news, doesn't have time to reflect over those news, and then read newspaper because every other person is doing it just so he can belong in order to forget his misery or just get drunk.


Most ordinary people here in London are living on loans, they have absolutely no life, they wake up in the morning jump on their cars, trains, return back late, they do this 5days a week through-out their adult life and end up using the money they make just to pay tax, bills and still end up taking out loans just so they can afford holidays or even just so they can afford to pay their transport to go to work.


One hundred and fifty years ago the financial industry was irrelatively an insignificant institution. But today it’s all supreme Like God, the church, the mosque, the monarchy, and different political party in other time and places, this organisation is today the world dominant institution. Have you ever reflect over or examine the imposing features of the modern financial organisation, initially giving a narrow moral mandate on what have allowed today financial industry to have such extra ordinary powers and influence in our lives. (MASONS)

Bargaining power is like 100 to nothing.


By the way I've started watching the documentary is about 3hours long, I will post on that thread when I finish watching..


Last edited by Idrisozet on Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:24 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Post by 7amood11 Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:16 pm

Just a small (back on topic) note: The Libyan people will vote on whether or not they agree with Libya's constitution (which is still being prepared).

Just saying, even though it's a bit premature at the moment, but it's certainly looking like the people will finally have their say.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:23 pm

I really wish the Libyan people a moderate constitution and government, to provide stability and freedom. As far as I understand it the moderate islamists are doing well, I actually think they might be good for the country and the region, despite the Wests knee-jerk panic when they hear the word "Islam".

From what I understand they're comparative to Europe's Christian Conservatives. But Islamic, not Christian.

I'm of course a bit on the left of those people, but they're certainly not dangerous or despotic, and after years of a dictatorship and corruption people probably think Religion might provide the moral guidance the Elites couldn't in the past.

Really - fingers crossed for all the emerging democracies.
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