Jose Mourinho

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Post by la bestia negra Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:32 pm

no matter what he wins the guy is a sore loser


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Post by Doc Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:18 pm

Reading over the thread, you have to admire Bhends' effort in this discussion and Alex resolve in sticking to what he believes which made the statement "pointless discussion" pretty much the truth...
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Post by Lord Hades Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:20 pm

iker

pepe --- ramos -- -coentrao

alonso-- ozil --- kaka

callejon -- higuain-- benz -- ronaldo

what a defensive manager he is
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Post by V Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:26 pm

you forgot to add the linesman
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:30 pm

V wrote:you forgot to add the linesman
Your having a rout today aren't you
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Post by urbaNRoots Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:39 pm

One of the most overrated managers of all time. Always has to buy the best players out there to perform, if some other managers had the money they would've succeed at least 2x more. And lol at the "tactical genius" stuff, when you have guys like Kaka, Higuain and Coentrao in the bench it's hard to not be a "tactical genius".
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:40 pm

diptiman wrote: iker

pepe --- ramos -- -coentrao

alonso-- ozil --- kaka

callejon -- higuain-- benz -- ronaldo

what a defensive manager he is

he did it out of desperation, because we needed the win badly.

the 1st XI was quite poorly balanced to begin with, and his over reliance on individuals to make the difference always cost us, when we have key players out, or some are under performing, like Ronaldo.
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Post by Lord Hades Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:48 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
diptiman wrote: iker

pepe --- ramos -- -coentrao

alonso-- ozil --- kaka

callejon -- higuain-- benz -- ronaldo

what a defensive manager he is

he did it out of desperation, because we needed the win badly.

the 1st XI was quite poorly balanced to begin with, and his over reliance on individuals to make the difference always cost us, when we have key players out, or some are under performing, like Ronaldo.

of course he did it out desperation, i dont disagree .. and that overeliance has got us the win so many times.. the players just didnt perform well

but taking off two defenders and playing such a weird formation and risking it all does require balls.. not to mention that note lol, if pepe knows how to read i.e.
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Post by punkfusion1992 Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:01 pm

:facepalm:
look he has won so so many titles, its not all down to luck
he took a Chelsea team from losers to winners in a season
he took PORTO TO THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE!
he brought Inter their first Champions League and Treble in 40 YEARS!
its not coincidence that his teams tend to crumble after he leaves them, his tactics are most of the time spot on like how he beat Barca in the Champions League, his teams always have a sense of togetherness, and they always LOVE the manager, he makes sure he has all the players' respect
show the man the tinsiest bit of respect
pathetic the lot of you, especially Alexjanosik
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Post by SaintJoe Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:29 pm

I have no idea if he's a tactical genius, but he's without a doubt a genius at coaching.
He has done so much. He has taken four clubs, each in a different league and has taken them to huge sucess (Madrid not so much, but he's been doing good I'd say). Especially Inter though. He was brought to win the CL in 2 years, and he freaking did it. Not only that, he's the only coach ever to win a treble in Italy. Personally, I think it's one of the greatest managerial feats... ever.

He might be a little defensive in the big matches, but it's a legit tactic. I don't think defending is easier than attacking like some people in this thread are saying though. You might be able to defend better by 'parking the bus', but you'll be constantly attacked. It's a double edged sword.
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Post by guest7 Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:33 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
diptiman wrote: iker

pepe --- ramos -- -coentrao

alonso-- ozil --- kaka

callejon -- higuain-- benz -- ronaldo

what a defensive manager he is

he did it out of desperation, because we needed the win badly.

the 1st XI was quite poorly balanced to begin with, and his over reliance on individuals to make the difference always cost us, when we have key players out, or some are under performing, like Ronaldo.

What depending on individualism? Our whole team was shit, our individualism was shit.

Give credits where credits due, Mourinho made great tactical substitutions the 2nd half and changed our whole game when he moved Pepe to DM, Özil to CM and Kaka to AM. We got more control of the game, and in the end scored 2 of it.

I don't understand why you don't like Mourinho. He might not be the greatest in the market, but even you can admit that "he has no tactic" or "relying on individuals" is bullshit. You don't win trebles by relying on individuals. If that was the case, Argentina should be good. Their individuals are world class, and Messi is the worlds best. Brazil aswell.
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Post by halamadrid2 Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:34 pm

huh???? individualism????

how about our whole team have scored(bar lass and coentrao), nearly our whole team have given asissts... us having the best shots on target ratio as well as being the most attacking team in europe

how about that???

you're desperate nick, look at the players failing him instead of jumping on his back ffs
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Post by Zealous Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:46 pm

Individualism? I thought Mourinho was a tactical defensive coach who never allows players to express themselves on the pitch? scratch
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Post by kiranr Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:21 pm

SaintJoe wrote:I have no idea if he's a tactical genius, but he's without a doubt a genius at coaching.
He has done so much. He has taken four clubs, each in a different league and has taken them to huge sucess (Madrid not so much, but he's been doing good I'd say). Especially Inter though. He was brought to win the CL in 2 years, and he freaking did it. Not only that, he's the only coach ever to win a treble in Italy. Personally, I think it's one of the greatest managerial feats... ever.

He might be a little defensive in the big matches, but it's a legit tactic. I don't think defending is easier than attacking like some people in this thread are saying though. You might be able to defend better by 'parking the bus', but you'll be constantly attacked. It's a double edged sword.

I agree with this.
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Post by alexjanosik Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:46 pm

What was so revolutionary about what he did?
If you go back and read what I wrote,I had mentioned the same.
Whenever he goes behind he takes off a midfielder and brings on a forward.
He has tried it like a million times.It might work against minnows but against a good team the amateur trick gets ridiculously exposed.
Case in point,the recent Clasico.After going behind he tries the same old trick and Madrid get schooled.
He is a great manager but he is nowhere close to being a tactical genius.

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Post by the xcx Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:02 pm

Tactical genius gibberish is so overrated.
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Post by guest7 Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:10 pm

alexjanosik wrote:What was so revolutionary about what he did?
If you go back and read what I wrote,I had mentioned the same.
Whenever he goes behind he takes off a midfielder and brings on a forward.
He has tried it like a million times.It might work against minnows but against a good team the amateur trick gets ridiculously exposed.
Case in point,the recent Clasico.After going behind he tries the same old trick and Madrid get schooled.
He is a great manager but he is nowhere close to being a tactical genius.

Actually he took off a defender vs Mallorca, not a midfielder

We played a 3 man backline instead and played Özil deeper instead.

Argument invalid Wink
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:18 pm

omarish wrote:
What depending on individualism? Our whole team was shit, our individualism was shit.

Give credits where credits due, Mourinho made great tactical substitutions the 2nd half and changed our whole game when he moved Pepe to DM, Özil to CM and Kaka to AM. We got more control of the game, and in the end scored 2 of it.

I don't understand why you don't like Mourinho. He might not be the greatest in the market, but even you can admit that "he has no tactic" or "relying on individuals" is bullshit. You don't win trebles by relying on individuals. If that was the case, Argentina should be good. Their individuals are world class, and Messi is the worlds best. Brazil aswell.

Maybe it came out the wrong way, but i have complained about our build up play for the most part of the past year and i still dont feel like he has grasped it. By now, i have come to realize that it's not his time to invest in drilling his team into building attacking moves.

The OP made a good point about Mourinho not having trademarks attacking move and it's the only thing i wanted to point out, because it hasnt evolved. There is no commitment to playing passing football, no commitment to drilling off the ball movements.

Whenever we are the team is in a slump, the movements get so sloppy and static it's almost unbearable to watch. Forgive me for liking my teams to get the ball moving in quick and slick fashion, while being ordered.

And yes, Mourinho general scheme of play does rely on individuals making the difference, sure no matter what you do in football, it's always the same but for him it's even more true. That's why Ronaldo never rests, that's why he keeps on playing Kaka over and over, because at the end of the game, even without owning any playmaking skills, Kaka is a number guy, he gets goals and he assists. That's why Di Maria is making those solo runs all the time when he plays. That's why he preferred the no bullshit approach of Higuain early on (among other factors like him being awesome ofc).

We have reached moments of absolute bliss because at the end of the day, we have some of the most brilliant talent out there, and when you give them time, and put them out there together, they just roll.

You are right to say that you dont win titles by relying on individuals, coaching is a tiny bit more complex than that. Mourinho is the best mental guru in football. When it comes to getting his players mentally ready to perform to their best ability and tackle the challenges ahead of them, he is the absolute best. That's the key to his success in my opinion, he has mastered the mental approach of the game, it's the greatest intangible in football, and he is obviously not a bad coach lol.

halamadrid2 wrote:huh???? individualism????

how about our whole team have scored(bar lass and coentrao), nearly our whole team have given asissts... us having the best shots on target ratio as well as being the most attacking team in europe

how about that???

you're desperate nick, look at the players failing him instead of jumping on his back ffs


Sometimes i feel like the amount of goals we are scoring, and the pwnding we put on other teams is deceiving, not that i am not happy with. I am very happy about our attacking potential, but to me, it's more a reflection of the attacking talents that we have, not a reflection of Mourinho being a masterful attacking coach. He is obviously doing something right, i didnt say that he sucked, only that he let his attacking players figure it out on their own more often than not, and chemistry makes it better ofc.

I gave him some credits for what he tried a couple of weeks ago, but that didnt last long.

I have no idea why you get so mad, he is not a perfect coach, and i am not calling him a scrub.
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Post by the xcx Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:27 pm

Mou is perfect for Madrid. Mou>>>all
haters gonna hate.
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Post by guest7 Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:31 pm

But Nick, I didn't see you complaining when we owned shit up in our 15 unbeaten run! In fact, you said we played the best football in Europe at that time. I can admit that we're not the best at using our possession, but our attacking movement is great - in counters!

See our movement in counters, they are truly beautiful. That is where Mou excells. If you expected anything else then Mou just isn't the right coach. I think he is working on us being better with possession, but these things take time especially since we just started playing possession football this season.

I think you're expecting too much. He has only had 1 and a half season with this team, and so far has done great. I think he has shown that he can be flexible by even playing possession football/trying to play beautiful football something I've not seen Mou do before.
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Post by Mamad Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:55 pm

I'm happy with Mou.
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Post by Kev Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:57 pm

FYI, having predictable, trademark attacking moves is not necessarily good. It means the opposing team will eventually see your plans, analyse it and find ways to overcome it. Unpredictability is attack's best friend IMO. Tactically, the only thing Mou should do is determine which attacking formation is best for which game, as well as which personnel is best for which game.

When it comes to defence, structure is paramount. This is where Mourinho excels at, tactically. He does not rely on "individual brilliance" in defending to keep clean sheets.

But, overall, it's Mou's man- management skills that make him one of the top 3 coaches in the world IMO.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:10 pm

I agree, for a while last year i think we played the most entertaining attacking football in Europe, it was a real pleasure to watch. Sadly, when it got tough, instead of persisting in that style when it got tough, we reverted to...im not sure what.

My comments have to be measured because we are dipping in form obviously, but it doesnt look like we have a go to way of playing when it comes to building up attacking moves. Not even the basic overlap and crossing in the box we do. I think it's quite poor.

but then again, like i said we are dipping in form, and i sound a bit dramatic today. It does remain true to me that he isnt a cultured attacking coach. Whether he is attacking more than he ever did means little to me, he never had so much attacking talents to begin with. He never needed that to win anyway, so in a way it shouldnt be a concern in the general scheme of things. But in the context of this debate, it has to be said.

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Post by Jeps33178 Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:15 am

I dont even know where to start with Mou

Its arguable that he's a "tactical genius" but then again, but you don't create so much success based on luck, not a 9 year home undefeated streak.

regardless, Mourinho is easily the best man manager in the history of the game. You have players like Carvalho, Deco, Drogba, Terry, Materazzi, Milito and several other players to testify for this. Players who went as far as crying when they learned about the departure of Mou

Like it or not, Mou will be remembered as one of the greatest of all time, and imo if he does manage to win the CL with Madrid, theres absolutely no way someone can deny him the title of best ever
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Post by Lex Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:18 am

Jeps33178 wrote:Mourinho is easily the best man manager in the history of the game
Be sensible, the game has a 150+ year history
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Post by Jeps33178 Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:35 am

Lex wrote:
Jeps33178 wrote:Mourinho is easily the best man manager in the history of the game
Be sensible, the game has a 150+ year history

okay

Mourinho is easily the best man manager in the past few decades, or at least the most successful anyway
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