What you guys think of this new Cesc rumour?

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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:02 pm

A question. How is the offers Barca are making any different to Chelsea and Modric?

They offered less then Modric's value in Spurs opinion, they continue to offer less then his value. They are trying to get the figure down to what they consider fair and the right value. Spurs dont need to sell, Modric wants to leave.

We offer less then Cesc value in Arsenal's opinions, we continue to offer less then his value. They are trying to get the figure down to what they consider fair and the right value. Spurs dont need to sell, Cesc wants to leave.

What the difference? Other then you hate Barca because they been beating your ass for 3 seasons?

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Post by paperbackwriter Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:11 pm

The Franchise wrote:A question. How is the offers Barca are making any different to Chelsea and Modric?

They offered less then Modric's value in Spurs opinion, they continue to offer less then his value. They are trying to get the figure down to what they consider fair and the right value. Spurs dont need to sell, Modric wants to leave.

We offer less then Cesc value in Arsenal's opinions, we continue to offer less then his value. They are trying to get the figure down to what they consider fair and the right value. Spurs dont need to sell, Cesc wants to leave.

What the difference? Other then you hate Barca because they been beating your ass for 3 seasons?

Difference is Cesc should be worth double what Modric is worth. They play the same position. Cesc is younger and have outperformed Modric every single season since he was 18. Cesc racked up 11 goals and 12 assists last season in 34 games. Modric had 4 goals and 3 assists last year in 42 games.

Cesc at 24 is top 10 best PL assister of all time with the highest average of any player. He have been world class since he was 20 ffs.
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:14 pm

The Franchise wrote:A question. How is the offers Barca are making any different to Chelsea and Modric?

They offered less then Modric's value in Spurs opinion, they continue to offer less then his value. They are trying to get the figure down to what they consider fair and the right value. Spurs dont need to sell, Modric wants to leave.

We offer less then Cesc value in Arsenal's opinions, we continue to offer less then his value. They are trying to get the figure down to what they consider fair and the right value. Spurs dont need to sell, Cesc wants to leave.

What the difference? Other then you hate Barca because they been beating your ass for 3 seasons?
Because the mayor of West London doesn't say that spurs are holding modric hostage Very Happy
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:14 pm

If Barca does not need Cesc, they should stop trying to buy him.

Cesc is more than a squad player, and if he wants to go to Barca despite that, then he is being an ass.

This whole saga is a pain.

Barca, Arsenal, Cesc, can all go to hell as far as I am concerned Neutral

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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:15 pm

paperbackwriter wrote:
The Franchise wrote:A question. How is the offers Barca are making any different to Chelsea and Modric?

They offered less then Modric's value in Spurs opinion, they continue to offer less then his value. They are trying to get the figure down to what they consider fair and the right value. Spurs dont need to sell, Modric wants to leave.

We offer less then Cesc value in Arsenal's opinions, we continue to offer less then his value. They are trying to get the figure down to what they consider fair and the right value. Spurs dont need to sell, Cesc wants to leave.

What the difference? Other then you hate Barca because they been beating your ass for 3 seasons?

Difference is Cesc should be worth double what Modric is worth. They play the same position. Cesc is younger and have outperformed Modric every single season since he was 18. Cesc racked up 11 goals and 12 assists last season in 34 games. Modric had 4 goals and 3 assists last year in 42 games.

Cesc at 24 is top 10 best PL assister of all time with the highest average of any player. He have been world class since he was 20 ffs.

Not in Spurs opinion.

Spurs value Modric at "alot more" then 30m...thats their words. Same as Cesc is valued at more then your opinion. Thats the importance here, what the club is values the player at.

And for the record, no, Cesc is not worth double Modric.

Why are you using goals and assists to work out the worth of Modric? His value to Spurs is way more then goals and assists.

Cesc played attacking midfield/number 10...Modric plays deep in midfield, obviously Fabregas will have more stats.

Cesc is clearly better, but not worth double at all.

Also, Cesc is one year younger...hardly a big difference.
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Post by windkick Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:17 pm

LOL at how any Cesc thread always turns in a to Real Madrid transfers vs Cesc saga transfer argument
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:17 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:If Barca does not need Cesc, they should stop trying to buy him.

Cesc is more than a squad player, and if he wants to go to Barca despite that, then he is being an ass.

This whole saga is a pain.

Barca, Arsenal, Cesc, can all go to hell as far as I am concerned Neutral


Unfortunatly, Pep does'nt see it how the fans do if he did they would'nt even be chasing him as majority of the fans dont want Fabregas and i dont mean just on here.

In El Mundo Deportivo they did a poll were 86% of people prefered Thiago to Cesc.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:18 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:If Barca does not need Cesc, they should stop trying to buy him.

Cesc is more than a squad player, and if he wants to go to Barca despite that, then he is being an ass.

This whole saga is a pain.

Barca, Arsenal, Cesc, can all go to hell as far as I am concerned Neutral


Because teams only buy what they need? No, that doesnt happen. Where was you when Madrid bought a second high class leftback despite having Marcelo..was they buying "only what they need"?

If this sage hurts you so badly, maybe you should stay out of threads like this?
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:18 pm

windkick wrote:LOL at how any Cesc thread always turns in a to Real Madrid transfers vs Cesc saga transfer argument
Why is madrid even mentioned? Neutral
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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:21 pm

Because apparently Cesc should be worth just as much as Kaka was. I brought them into it.
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Post by windkick Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:22 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
windkick wrote:LOL at how any Cesc thread always turns in a to Real Madrid transfers vs Cesc saga transfer argument
Why is madrid even mentioned? Neutral

This guy started it...

(Why? Who knows...)

hrealmadrid wrote:People can complain all they want about how Madrid spend countless dollars acquiring other clubs top players however at least we meet the buyout prices and don't low ball them. If you want him pay for him. Enough said.
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:24 pm

no one said that Cesc should be worth than Kaka Franchise, the general opinion was 40-45 mill, Kaka was 64 mill, how is that the same.
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Post by Guest Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:26 pm

Barca sunshine pumpers make me lol. The problem here is that Barca has a bad relationship with Arsenal. So nobody is going to do the other a favor. In the end, Cesc should be the one to stand up and end this. It would stabilize him (he would be loved by Arsenal forever) and Arsenal for a while.

I think it's getting close to this point.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:26 pm

OK, I exaggerated there.

But my point was, I dont justify us overpaying for Cesc (in my opinion) in the same way Madrid over-payed for Kaka.

Then it was said, thats wrong, because Kaka was older then Cesc is.

Then it went from there.
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Post by Raptorgunner Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:33 pm

I dont really blame Barcelona for what they are trying to do with Cesc. What Inter did to them was not right,

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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:35 pm

Alright, here's how it is:

Arsenal don't give a rats ass what Barcelona are going to use Cesc as. If you want him as a squad player, reserve player or even youth coach...it makes no difference to us. He is our captain and one of our best players. He has produced world class performances throughout the past 5 years. Statistically, he has been better than Xavi for the past 5 years as well. He is not a one season wonder, and there is no risk of him "Not performing" as he has performed well for the NT and Arsenal when he was called upon.
Arsenal do not need your money, and would much rather keep Cesc. He won't be "unhappy" here as many would like him to be, and he has always given Arsenal 110% whenever he played. Lets not forget that he played through a broken leg against Barcelona just so that Arsenal wouldn't go a man down (As we had used all our 3 substitutions). Thats a guy whose committed to the team, and there is very little that shows otherwise.
Now, like I said, what you want to do with Fabregas is absolutely unimportant and irrelevant to Arsenal Football Club. He is easily worth 40-50 million. Whether you think that is true or not is none of our business. He is the team captain, he is arguably the best midfielder in the EPL and a top 3 midfielder all around the world.
It is irrelevant whether you think he is "worth" it or not, because we won't sell him for less and that has been the case for 3 years now. Barcelona's offer of 27 mil last season was completely rejected and they were told that we are not open for negotiations. This year, we are open to negotiations and we have rejected every one of your offers. We are waiting for a proper offer to come. That means we are listening and waiting for you to actually pay up, instead of just talk to the media. This does NOT mean that we are happy with your measly offer of 27 million, it means that we are waiting for you to act instead of just talk. So far, you don't seem to be doing so.

So the ball is in your court. Do as you please, but we are no push offers and you do not hold all the cards here. We aren't a cash-stripped club like the ones you are used to dealing with, and that is thanks to Wenger's policies over the past 5 years. So, again, either pay up or shut up.

Cesc is one of the best right now, and we are willing to sell him for 24 million less than what Kaka was sold 2 seasons ago. 24 million is more than a 1/3rd of Kaka's price back then. If you take inflation into account, which you most certainly should because otherwise that would be completely ignorant, then you'd see that 40 million is a very fair price for him. Especially when you take into account that he's younger too, and still has 3 years to go until he peaks.

Fact is, you SHOULD be overpaying for Cesc because he doesn't necessarily want to leave Arsenal. Arsenal don't need the money either, meaning you have to pay a little extra to snatch our top player away from us. 40 million is his value and you wouldn't be overpaying if you do offer that amount.
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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:39 pm

Also, its noteworthy to observe Barca's financial dealings. How much did they pay for Ibra? How much did they pay for Villa, who was playing for a Valencia side that needed the money? How much have they paid for Sanchez, who was just bought last week?

You then expect us to watch you pay all of these huge amounts, but still settle for the measly 27 million that you offered because you "Don't want to overpay". We aren't push overs, and 27 million gets you nowhere. Neither does 30 million for that matter.
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Post by kiranr Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:43 pm

Why are you getting so worked up Fady? Unless Cesc takes a pay cut which can be added to the transfer fee, this move will not happen.

No Barca fan cares whether he comes or not. I want him to stay at Arsenal itself actually because after he moved to Arsenal we started achieving consistent success! tongue

But you guys have to be prepared for the low balling with Xavi talking and all and, sadly, that is not under our control!

I think Cesc wants to move to Barcelona this summer. I think he has made that clear to Wenger which is why Arsenal are willing to negotiate unlike last year when they completely shut shop.
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Post by hrealmadrid Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:46 pm

The Franchise, I completely see your point and understand your reasoning, although I don't agree with you.

And I do apologize for starting all this with my comment, because I have been talking about this issue with friends for the past couple weeks and thought I would finally voice my opinion on the first Fabregas/Barca related thread I saw.

In terms of all that has been going on in this thread, I will give you my opinion.

As a Madrid fan, I can honestly and confidently say that my opinion has nothing to do with the fact that Barcelona is the buying club as I would feel the same way with any other buying club in this situation.

I feel as though there is a player who is wanted and has been wanted publicly for three years now who Barcelona refuse to step up and pay for. It's no different from other public pursuits from other major clubs for major world class footballers.

Chelsea wants Torres: they meet the asking price. Madrid wants Ronaldo: they meet the asking price. City wants Aguero: they meet the asking price.

But Barca want Cesc: they low-ball. They taunt. They cry. They wine. They moan. They low-ball again.

Say what you (by you I mean anyone) want about Madrid, Chelsea, City, etc. overpaying, but is it really overpaying? When you consider Ronaldo makes up his shirt sales by April of the same season? It's a valid investment to the buyer.

Fabregas wants to leave + Barcelona want to buy + Arsenal willing to sell FOR A REASONABLE PRICE BASED ON A. THE MARKET B. INFLATION C. HOW BADLY BARCELONA WANT HIM = 45 million: I think that is fair.

On top of everything, it's not like they are a minnow club who can't afford 45.
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Post by Raptorgunner Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:47 pm

This is how hard Barcelona is trying to buy back their DNA.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:47 pm

You just said a load of stuff, that isnt really important in terms of his price. Then said, he is easily worth 40-50. You didnt justify it at all. You just said he is a very good player and Arsenal dont have to sell, which everyone already knows, then said he is worth 40-50m.




You say, either pay up or shut up. I dont get why.

We are offering amounts, you dont think its the right value. Good, fair enough. But how is it inuslting to you? How is it such a terrible mistreatment? No, it isnt. If it was, you would go back to, not listening to offers, your wasting our time.

I love how your talking about inflation, like its some inevitable factor we all just have accept.

No, it isnt.

Your opinion is 40m isnt overpaying. Mine is, it is overpaying, slightly, but still overpaying. I dont justify that.

Kaka was overpayed and I see Cesc for 40m as almost as overpaid. Thats not looking back on Kaka and seeing how he is injury prone, thats at the time.

You keep talking about how Arsenal dont need your money, like your in a positon of strength. Well, your not.

You have a player on your hands who wants to go, thats why you havent closed your doors, thats why you are listening to offers at all.

As I said, I dont justify overpaying when we need players. I was just about happy with Villa despite him being the only way I wanted to sign, that was because we needed a starting forward. I dont justify overpaying for Cesc, because we dont need him.

I think I am allowed an opinion, that is, Cesc isnt worth 40m to me. Dispute it if you like, but I doubt you will convince me otherwise and saying "we should overpay" is just laughable.

We should overpay, or we are insulting and being disrespectful?

Riiight.

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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:49 pm

I'm getting worked up because it seems that the only way to get my point across fully is if I sorta shove it in lol. I keep on reading the same comments, and some of them seem very ignorant and that usually ticks me off lol.

I agree that Fabregas probably wants to move to Barcelona. My point was that he isn't unhappy at Arsenal. For example, right now Tevez is unhappy at City and so that lowers his price a bit. Cesc, on the other hand, is fine with staying at Arsenal. He even previously stated that he doesn't want to leave until he wins a trophy with us. That doesn't sound like a man who hates the city and the club, and all of his actions on the pitch don't harm my case at all.

I can take the Xavi talk, because it doesn't affect me. I just hate it when someone tries to defend his position, or attempts to convince me of something that isn't true, like Fabregas' value being 30 million.
I'd rather he stays here of course, but whatever it is that he wants to do, he better do it fast so we can have time to adjust the squad adequately.

I mean, really Kiranr...have you seen me say anything against Barcelona at all lately? I'm not a hater or anything lol
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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:50 pm

Iceman wrote:Also, its noteworthy to observe Barca's financial dealings. How much did they pay for Ibra? How much did they pay for Villa, who was playing for a Valencia side that needed the money? How much have they paid for Sanchez, who was just bought last week?

You then expect us to watch you pay all of these huge amounts, but still settle for the measly 27 million that you offered because you "Don't want to overpay". We aren't push overs, and 27 million gets you nowhere. Neither does 30 million for that matter.

I guess you didnt read over the thread? All this has been covered.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:51 pm

Iceman wrote:I'm getting worked up because it seems that the only way to get my point across fully is if I sorta shove it in lol. I keep on reading the same comments, and some of them seem very ignorant and that usually ticks me off lol.

I agree that Fabregas probably wants to move to Barcelona. My point was that he isn't unhappy at Arsenal. For example, right now Tevez is unhappy at City and so that lowers his price a bit. Cesc, on the other hand, is fine with staying at Arsenal. He even previously stated that he doesn't want to leave until he wins a trophy with us. That doesn't sound like a man who hates the city and the club, and all of his actions on the pitch don't harm my case at all.

I can take the Xavi talk, because it doesn't affect me. I just hate it when someone tries to defend his position, or attempts to convince me of something that isn't true, like Fabregas' value being 30 million.
I'd rather he stays here of course, but whatever it is that he wants to do, he better do it fast so we can have time to adjust the squad adequately.

I mean, really Kiranr...have you seen me say anything against Barcelona at all lately? I'm not a hater or anything lol

Who is trying to convince you Cesc is worth 30m? I said, thats my opinion. I couldnt care less if you agree or not.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:57 pm

hrealmadrid wrote:The Franchise, I completely see your point and understand your reasoning, although I don't agree with you.

And I do apologize for starting all this with my comment, because I have been talking about this issue with friends for the past couple weeks and thought I would finally voice my opinion on the first Fabregas/Barca related thread I saw.

In terms of all that has been going on in this thread, I will give you my opinion.

As a Madrid fan, I can honestly and confidently say that my opinion has nothing to do with the fact that Barcelona is the buying club as I would feel the same way with any other buying club in this situation.

I feel as though there is a player who is wanted and has been wanted publicly for three years now who Barcelona refuse to step up and pay for. It's no different from other public pursuits from other major clubs for major world class footballers.

Chelsea wants Torres: they meet the asking price. Madrid wants Ronaldo: they meet the asking price. City wants Aguero: they meet the asking price.

But Barca want Cesc: they low-ball. They taunt. They cry. They wine. They moan. They low-ball again.

Say what you (by you I mean anyone) want about Madrid, Chelsea, City, etc. overpaying, but is it really overpaying? When you consider Ronaldo makes up his shirt sales by April of the same season? It's a valid investment to the buyer.

Fabregas wants to leave + Barcelona want to buy + Arsenal willing to sell FOR A REASONABLE PRICE BASED ON A. THE MARKET B. INFLATION C. HOW BADLY BARCELONA WANT HIM = 45 million: I think that is fair.

On top of everything, it's not like they are a minnow club who can't afford 45.

How about Modric and Chelsea, the offer situation is pretty similar. Both clubs offered less then the selling club want.

Why is it Barca are somehow acting so horribly in offering so much less then Cesc' Arsenal value? Why are we singled out for such apparent bad ethics?

This cry, taunt, whine...where is it?

Cesc friends saying they want him at the club? So what?

Whilshire, stranger to Mata says his playing style will fit in at Arsenal. Thats okay though?
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Post by Iceman Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:57 pm

The Franchise wrote:You just said a load of stuff, that isnt really important in terms of his price. Then said, he is easily worth 40-50. You didnt justify it at all. You just said he is a very good player and Arsenal dont have to sell, which everyone already knows, then said he is worth 40-50m.




You say, either pay up or shut up. I dont get why.

We are offering amounts, you dont think its the right value. Good, fair enough. But how is it inuslting to you? How is it such a terrible mistreatment? No, it isnt. If it was, you would go back to, not listening to offers, your wasting our time.

I love how your talking about inflation, like its some inevitable factor we all just have accept.

No, it isnt.

Your opinion is 40m isnt overpaying. Mine is, it is overpaying, slightly, but still overpaying. I dont justify that.

Kaka was overpayed and I see Cesc for 40m as almost as overpaid. Thats not looking back on Kaka and seeing how he is injury prone, thats at the time.

You keep talking about how Arsenal dont need your money, like your in a positon of strength. Well, your not.

You have a player on your hands who wants to go, thats why you havent closed your doors, thats why you are listening to offers at all.

As I said, I dont justify overpaying when we need players. I was just about happy with Villa despite him being the only way I wanted to sign, that was because we needed a starting forward. I dont justify overpaying for Cesc, because we dont need him.

I think I am allowed an opinion, that is, Cesc isnt worth 40m to me. Dispute it if you like, but I doubt you will convince me otherwise and saying "we should overpay" is just laughable.

We should overpay, or we are insulting and being disrespectful?

Riiight.


Firstly, I personally never complained about anything. I never labelled it as an insult, nor did I say its a terrible mistreatment so putting words in my mouth seems pretty silly, no? Please pay attention to what I say. I don't mind you offering so little, because it just means that Cesc is staying.

Now, all of what I said is relevant to his price, you just fail to see it for some reason. Fabregas being a great player is relevant. The fact that he has statistically outdone Xavi for 5 years straight is relevant. The fact that he's one of the best out there is relevant. The fact that he is still young is relevant. The fact that we don't need the money, and that we don't need to sell is relevant. The fact that he isn't unhappy at Arsenal is relevant. This is all relevant to how much you are going to pay.

Inflation IS something you have to accept. If you don't believe so, then fine but as you can see...you're almost on your own in that respect. As I said, it is irrelevant to use whether you need him or not. All we care about is the amount you pay. You have overpaid consistently throughout the past few years, ranging from an outrageous 25 million for someone like Chygrinski (SP) to the infamous Ibra purchase. We see you spending all that money on players you eventually sell for much less just one year later, and you expect us to sit back and accept 30 million? Doesn't make sense to me.

For example, if City approached us, then we'd automatically ask for 70 million or something along those lines. Why? Because they have spent outrageous sums of money as well.

I don't get why its so hard for you to grasp the idea of inflation though..
Iceman
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