An analysis of the pull of the La Liga giants, RM and Barca

Sushi Master wrote:Your article is valid on Latin and Spanish speaking players with similar culture and language.

But not every player is like that. Say, Eastern Europeans, people from the Balkans, English, Germans and most Italians. Most of them prefer to stay at home, and bypass all the prestige and BS, although I admit they are already earning tons of money... If they weren't, it might just be different (Chiellini and Rooney, 2 players linked with Madrid as an example).

I think the main factor nowadays is money more than anything.

Venezuela had a good showing in Copa America Did you guys move up in fifa rankings?

the money argument is always a curious one, because while we can pay a lot of money to acquire some players, the wages we pay them are never something ridiculous, unless they are ridiculous players themselves.

if you say that X player joined us for money, specially if it's a big name, then you are wrong because we dont pay them something their curent club cant afford to pay them.

at least players dont hustle us to get more money, and threaten to leave the club just to get the biggest pay check, that's the definition of a mercenary. all clubs nowadays have to pay huge amounts to find and secure players, just because we are the biggest and most active, we stand out; if you think otherwise, you are lying to yourself.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:the money argument is always a curious one, because while we can pay a lot of money to acquire some players, the wages we pay them are never something ridiculous, unless they are ridiculous players themselves.

if you say that X player joined us for money, specially if it's a big name, then you are wrong because we dont pay them something their curent club cant afford to pay them.

at least players dont hustle us to get more money, and threaten to leave the club just to get the biggest pay check, that's the definition of a mercenary. all clubs nowadays have to pay huge amounts to find and secure players, just because we are the biggest and most active, we stand out; if you think otherwise, you are lying to yourself.

Sahin will get somewhat 2.3 million € per year. If he went to Manu or similar he'd get 4 millions/year at least

babun1024 wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Your article is valid on Latin and Spanish speaking players with similar culture and language.

But not every player is like that. Say, Eastern Europeans, people from the Balkans, English, Germans and most Italians. Most of them prefer to stay at home, and bypass all the prestige and BS, although I admit they are already earning tons of money... If they weren't, it might just be different (Chiellini and Rooney, 2 players linked with Madrid as an example).

I think the main factor nowadays is money more than anything.

Venezuela had a good showing in Copa America Did you guys move up in fifa rankings?

Went up like 20 something spaces to 40th! Insane.

Sahin could have gotten something similar with Dortmund if he stayed and extended, pretty much everyone got a better contract, but Sahin was the only one not to extend.

The racism part is very falseto be honest. Spain is not that racist.

Sushi Master wrote:

babun1024 wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Your article is valid on Latin and Spanish speaking players with similar culture and language.

But not every player is like that. Say, Eastern Europeans, people from the Balkans, English, Germans and most Italians. Most of them prefer to stay at home, and bypass all the prestige and BS, although I admit they are already earning tons of money... If they weren't, it might just be different (Chiellini and Rooney, 2 players linked with Madrid as an example).

I think the main factor nowadays is money more than anything.

Venezuela had a good showing in Copa America Did you guys move up in fifa rankings?

Went up like 20 something spaces to 40th! Insane.

Sahin could have gotten something similar with Dortmund if he stayed and extended, pretty much everyone got a better contract, but Sahin was the only one not to extend.

Good for a change Rondon owns

Yo man, i took out a 1/4 billion loan to pay for the honeys..but that goes towards the pimps, i pay the honeys going rates.

See? Aint all about the paper homie, im frugal like that

repeating the same thing in a different fashion doesnt reinforce your point you know?

Yo man, im too busy ringing up celebrity-escort-R-us and having them fly out Beyonce to my pad.
It cost me 80m through the agency but im paying Beyonce what Joe Blow would through other means.

If you take away the 80m, were only paying her what other top sleazeballs would...so were not using our money to get ahead... my friend St_ nicholas10_of_goal said so...

Its not about the size of the transfer fees my friends, its the motion in the salary after tax ocean...or so says select Madrid fans

bla bla bla, archetype of the guy who has nothing productive to say but use his rhetoric to troll, and make himself look creative. i give you it's funny, but that's about as much thought/emotion you manage to convey.

Appreciate the effort, but its nothing I havent heard over 1000 times

Really guys? This guy takes his time to write an article as a neutral about Madrid and BArca nad all you have to say is "meh" or "old stuff, read it already"? You can disagree with his opinions all you want but appreciate his effort and take time to have a proper debate.

Thanks M99 for the thought, but it seems that any thread about Madrid or Barca gets interpeted as an attack on them, and some fans go on defense mode.

If the info here was said before then fine, you now have them all in one post and can add them to the forum's archives.

This was not an attack at La Liga, and I am not english Yuri.

As for the racism issue, I did not accuse Spain of being racist. But football fans sometimes show an ugly side, and the Spanish Federation is not closing down on them qiuckly.

Apparently, the million threads about Messi vs. Ronaldo and Madrid vs. Barca are new, and to be always taken seriously.

Oh Podolski

Yeah, I'm a "pro Madrid fan" when discussing anything about La Liga.

Trollolololol.

Never said you were english. But mentioning that madrid hadnt been dominant in the past twenty years just isnt right. 3 UCLS in 5 years is not something done by every team.

You did not mention playing style which is among the most important factors, technical players like to play with other technical players. They all want a passing game, a game with alot of goals and excitement and having 70,000+ watching them every week. There is certian stardom for players who play for madrid and now barca in spain, which is not really available to others. Playing for both teams makes it alot easier to win ballon d'ors and other prizes as they play entertaining attacking football for a whole league season. That is something the english media never mentions as they dont particularly like tippy tappy football.

Another thing you forgot about is the coach factor which is available in both madrid and barca right now, any player who is close to sanity would love to play for mourinho or guardiola knowing that these guys know what they are doing and wield loads of influence at the two clubs. That is the main reason that sahin came, mourinho called him and laid out his plans and convinced him. If we were with juande ramos that would not have happened, only experienced players would succeed.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Never said you were english. But mentioning that madrid hadnt been dominant in the past twenty years just isnt right. 3 UCLS in 5 years is not something done by every team.

You did not mention playing style which is among the most important factors, technical players like to play with other technical players. They all want a passing game, a game with alot of goals and excitement and having 70,000+ watching them every week. There is certian stardom for players who play for madrid and now barca in spain, which is not really available to others. Playing for both teams makes it alot easier to win ballon d'ors and other prizes as they play entertaining attacking football for a whole league season. That is something the english media never mentions as they dont particularly like tippy tappy football.

Another thing you forgot about is the coach factor which is available in both madrid and barca right now, any player who is close to sanity would love to play for mourinho or guardiola knowing that these guys know what they are doing and wield loads of influence at the two clubs. That is the main reason that sahin came, mourinho called him and laid out his plans and convinced him. If we were with juande ramos that would not have happened, only experienced players would succeed.

Instead of slamming my whole post and bringig up english bias,you could have mentioned those points and aded them to the debate.

And by saying Madrid were not dominant, I did not mean they sucked. I just mean they were not as dominant as Barca is now, or as MU is in the EPL. Milan were dominant at the begenning of the 90's,but in 2003-2007 they were strong but not dominant.

Madrid had a strong patch in the last 20 years, agreed, but not exactly what I would call prologed dominance.

I donno but three ucls is worth alot more than pls. For a player winning the UCL is a way to eternal glory we all remember who won those finals but we dont remember who won the pls or la ligas. You can have mediocre teams and win those.

UCL= Dominance, it means you are the best of the best. Dont forget that when madrid didnt win the UCL those years it was because of bayern and italian anti-football. The team was by far the best between 1998-2003.

There is alot of purely footballing reasons as well as personal connections to countries (madrid with argentina and those other guys with brazil/Netherlands)

Im sorry if I came off a bit brash, its because I keep hearing this over and over again. Sunny weather, money, fame and madrid wasnt dominant for a 10000 years.

Lord Spencer wrote:
Going to Barca or Madrid is shortcut to greatness for some players, they don't need to wait as much to become famous or wealthy. They don't need extra grit to earn trophies. And they don't need to do all of that in an unpleasant environment.

However, this creates a very boring situation where players will just gravitate away from their teams for those two.

The problem is not coming from the other leagues, but the Spanish league itself.
Yes Madrid and Barca are reaping the rewards, but the Spanish league is becoming increasingly uncompetitive, which makes the league easier to win for the two. Also, the tax laws are a huge loss of income for Spain, whose questionable economical practices are towing the country down.

What I see is a new breed of players like Sahin, who instead of developing into WC players methodically would jump ship to a new club out of fear they won't get another chance (if you are great, you will always get another chance).

Please don't take this as a dig at RM and Barca, I only intended to make an analysis of an increasing trend in football.

Discuss;

I do not really get the famous part. If the players are so good that they sign for Madrid or Barcelona, then they are going to be famous among the football lovers.

Barcelona or Madrid do not pay exorbitant salaries to all the players. At the end of the day, players at the top clubs are millionaires.

How do you define extra grit? When Barcelona or Madrid wins a trophy, are the players not working as hard as the other players in other clubs? IMO, they put the same or superior effort on the pitch and in training. Do you think Barcelona's possession football and high pressure does not require extra grit that players in AC Milan put?

How do you know Sahin moved to Madrid because he is scared? That is very presumptuous to be honest. Couldn't it be because Sahin wants play at a higher level that requires more "grit"?

The trend that you speak of is quite normal and is not associated with an assortment of presumptions and issues facing La Liga that you have highlighted.

Barcelona have a team that is playing at a high level. Any player that feels he is good will want to test himself in such a team. Madrid are chasing Barcelona and trying to win their tenth CL which has been elusive for a few years now. Both are hard challenges and it is obvious that any player joining these clubs have to step it up to a new higher level. That sounds extra gritty to me!

Yuri Yukuv wrote:I donno but three ucls is worth alot more than pls. For a player winning the UCL is a way to eternal glory we all remember who won those finals but we dont remember who won the pls or la ligas. You can have mediocre teams and win those.

UCL= Dominance, it means you are the best of the best. Dont forget that when madrid didnt win the UCL those years it was because of bayern and italian anti-football. The team was by far the best between 1998-2003.

There is alot of purely footballing reasons as well as personal connections to countries (madrid with argentina and those other guys with brazil/Netherlands)

Im sorry if I came off a bit brash, its because I keep hearing this over and over again. Sunny weather, money, fame and madrid wasnt dominant for a 10000 years.

Italian anti-football :!: what bull is that, aside from the fact that Juve in 1998 was as offensive as RM, Madrid lost to Bayren, and a fantastic Dynamo Kiev team. I have no idea where the Italian anti-football claim came to be.

Also, I suspect you would call Milan 2003-2007 dominant based on the UCL.

Also, I never said that "Sunny weather, money, fame and madrid wasnt dominant for a 10000 years." were the only reasons Madrid had thei pull power, I clearly said that glory and prestige are important factors as well.

You see it as bull i dont, dynamos case was different but generally italian teams just aimed to stop spanish teams from playing thats why cruyeff said that italian teams dont defeat you but you can lose to them. A big part of why barca is dominant in the UCL now is because there are no italian teams that are strong.

The reason why I viewed ur post as being written from an enlighs angle is because it makes no mention of the core footballing reason (as english cannot admit anyone is superior in anything, especially not poor spain) the technical attacking football, the amazingly skilled teammates, the crowds cheering for trickery instead of long balls, not having to play against stoke, the ability to express yourself and so on.

Yes there are some facets which cannot be replicated easily (Weather, language, taxes and so on) but the footballing reasons are just as important.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:You see it as bull i dont, dynamos case was different but generally italian teams just aimed to stop spanish teams from playing thats why cruyeff said that italian teams dont defeat you but you can lose to them. A big part of why barca is dominant in the UCL now is because there are no italian teams that are strong.

The reason why I viewed ur post as being written from an enlighs angle is because it makes no mention of the core footballing reason (as english cannot admit anyone is superior in anything, especially not poor spain) the technical attacking football, the amazingly skilled teammates, the crowds cheering for trickery instead of long balls, not having to play against stoke, the ability to express yourself and so on.

Yes there are some facets which cannot be replicated easily (Weather, language, taxes and so on) but the footballing reasons are just as important.

Regardless of what you think about Italian teams, Real Madrd did not suffer from any Italan upset in the CL in 1998-2002, which you argued that the reason RM did not win the other two champion leagues being Bayren and Italian anti-football.

Also, I made it clear I was talking about external factors (everything except preferance wise), not internal factors which you talk about here.

Also, some fans chear for Spanish foorball, others for Italian football, and other for English football. The fact that you have different tactics makesyou appreciate football more. If it was only the Spanish allure that is pulling players in, then Valencia and Seville should have benefitted more.

Lets get this clear right now, Barca are not a representation of Spain, they are a great team who happen to be spanish.
Their 2nd biggest team have gone past the 2nd round once in 7 odd years, their 4th place teams regularly go out in the group stages if they get past the qualification stage at all.
Barca are carrying Spain right now, Spain isnt ahead of the EPL, Barca are.
Spain arent getting to CL finals, Barca are.
Crap overviews about a footballing culture due to 1 team is a joke, if Paul Mc Cartney joined the PussyCat dolls, it wouldnt make them better than the rolling stones

ffs, soain are like the do nothing family of a megastar..leeching off the family name

Your argument has nothing to do on the massive pull RM and Barca enjoy, you can start a thread discussing Spain you know.

When was Lord Spencer elected sheriff of thread content?

The day Cyber elected himselfe internet legend/grand troll
/JK

What I meant was that your argument was off topic, and suggested (I apologize if I was not friendly enough) you make a thread hilighting the issues in your posts.

I think the biggest thing missing here is the style of play and how they officiate the game.

You can express yourself more in Spain and you have more time on the ball. Also, the lower division teams in Spain don't just go out there and kick you to death. They play football, and that is why you see the big score differences.

I think this is a HUGE point, I would hate to be a world class player and go into a game against Stoke, Blackburn etc and know that I was about to get kicked all over the field in a game we are probably going to win anyways.

I played basketball in college and there were certain teams that we knew were just going to foul us to death for 40 minutes and it was not very fun. I can't imagine having the same thing happen but those fouls being on the knees and ankles.

To sum it up, if English is not your first language then it is a pretty easy choice to choose Barca or Madrid. Living in an English speaking country (USA), we are not very welcoming to people who don't speak our language and I'm sure you get that in UK too. Non-English speaking countries I have found to be more accepting of people who don't speak there language.

Add on to that the weather, women, money, etc it's a pretty easy choice.