How the beautiful game has lost it's beauty

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Post by jibers Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:39 am

maverick wrote:
jibers wrote:
maverick wrote:No it hasnt. Have you seen Barcelona play

You my friend are brain dead.

anybody who doesn't see the beauty of barca's passing is braindead

Passiing is nice but like van gaals ajax i find most of barcas matches boring. They are to tactical. Messi si the only player allowed to completely express himself, they are to restricted by their ability to live without the ball. Go and watch van gaals ajax, a bit of history lesson for you son. Or go and watch the 1974 world cup. They are a great technical side, but most of theri matches are boring. I just watch waiting for messi to do something. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Passing itself isn't beautiful, it's combinatiosn that make it beautiful. When barca has the ball for like 63 minutes and they only attempt a few combinations, that is BORING. Great tactic, but it certainly isn't pleasing on the eye.

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Post by maverick Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:10 am

jibers wrote:
maverick wrote:
jibers wrote:
maverick wrote:No it hasnt. Have you seen Barcelona play

You my friend are brain dead.

anybody who doesn't see the beauty of barca's passing is braindead

Passiing is nice but like van gaals ajax i find most of barcas matches boring. They are to tactical. Messi si the only player allowed to completely express himself, they are to restricted by their ability to live without the ball. Go and watch van gaals ajax, a bit of history lesson for you son. Or go and watch the 1974 world cup. They are a great technical side, but most of theri matches are boring. I just watch waiting for messi to do something. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Passing itself isn't beautiful, it's combinatiosn that make it beautiful. When barca has the ball for like 63 minutes and they only attempt a few combinations, that is BORING. Great tactic, but it certainly isn't pleasing on the eye.

which players in ajax's 90s team were allowed to express themselves on the field

i think iniesta does it too

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Post by jibers Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:28 am

maverick wrote:
jibers wrote:
maverick wrote:
jibers wrote:
maverick wrote:No it hasnt. Have you seen Barcelona play

You my friend are brain dead.

anybody who doesn't see the beauty of barca's passing is braindead

Passiing is nice but like van gaals ajax i find most of barcas matches boring. They are to tactical. Messi si the only player allowed to completely express himself, they are to restricted by their ability to live without the ball. Go and watch van gaals ajax, a bit of history lesson for you son. Or go and watch the 1974 world cup. They are a great technical side, but most of theri matches are boring. I just watch waiting for messi to do something. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Passing itself isn't beautiful, it's combinatiosn that make it beautiful. When barca has the ball for like 63 minutes and they only attempt a few combinations, that is BORING. Great tactic, but it certainly isn't pleasing on the eye.

which players in ajax's 90s team were allowed to express themselves on the field

i think iniesta does it too

Finidi George and Overmars if I remmebr corretly, they were told that if there were more than 3 defenders they should never be to direct so they always passed back. Total football worked by people interchanging positions and covering then quickly changing back to your originalposition.

In modern footbal that wasn't posibble but Van gaal pplayed with organisation. They probed for the overlap. So if two defenders closed in on a player they tried to find the gap so the team passed round to exploit the space left by the opposition player. So sometimes they would pass the ball back and forth. They used to get 70+ possession sometimes. Boring as hell sometimes. That is the way I see Barcelona.
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Post by andiii Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:02 am

imo football shouldn't be called the beautiful game mainly because there's so many things wrong with it that the people in charge simply can't be bothered to fix (video technology etc). how can you call something a beautiful game when it's widely known that the injustices happen all the time and ruin matches for 1 team. and yea over the course of a season it kinda levels it's self out but there's nothing beautiful about that
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Post by M99 Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:04 am

Thanks for the replies guys. I really appreciate you took the time to comment.

Lex wrote:
milanista99 wrote:How often do you see some chip the ball over 4 defenders to the path of a running striker which Baggio, Totti, Socrates and Rivera would do with a bored expression on their face?



0:50

But that's Fabregas for you

I'm not saying they completely disappeared, but they are a rarity now. This is due to the plastic balls which travel too fast and bounce a lot.

Adit wrote:Only parts i agree are,use of plastic balls and over influence of athletism in modern game.I dont agree with the talent part,spain has just produced their most talented crop of players.Just because italian player production is shit atm doesnt mean whole world is not producing enough talents.

Really Adit, I used to enjoy your posts back in the old forum and I like you am a Borja Valero fanboy but you have changed. You are trying to hard to be a troll, go back to your normal self. Now all you do is troll, Italy, Copa America, Barcelona, Frank Lampard etc. Stop pretending to be something you're not. And looking back I used Italy a bit too much but quality of other teams have dropped too. Brazil, Argentina, England etc.

Magricos wrote: You seem to focus a lot on the Italian NT when other countries quality have improved.

Some of the minnows have improved which is majorly due to the increase in popularity of football but as I said, not just Italy Brazil, Argentina, England, France compare to the past teams, there is a drop in quality.

Lord Spencer wrote:The current crop of Spanish talent was produced 10 and more years ago, not today. Just because Spain and Germany are being exceptional in the production of talent, it does not mean that the talent pool is not dry.

I don't want to get into a name game, but under 2006, every year's Ballon'dr was a contest between more than 7 players. Italian player production was used as an example. And Italy being a great football nation makes the example very relevant. Of course there will be always talent, but there is a major difference in the focus of the game, which rewards headless running over intelligent movement.

You took the words out of my mouth. Are you my alt Razz

Lord Hispano wrote:Too much focus on Serie A really.

I talked about the lack of competition in Spain and plastic balls and money affecting football and also drop of player quality of other nations. I used Italy as a mere example of a global football problem.

Ganso wrote:i think its the same as before,problem is that the generation of players like R9,Zidane,Ronaldinho,the italian veterans etc died off and now were moving to a new generation of players.

At the age of the new Peles and Van Bastens, the real Pele and Van Basten were already world beaters.

Lord Hispano wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:Also, funny how this amazingly talented Spain team couldn't win the WC in a more convincing manner.

Well, take a look at who made it that way. Mind you it was the only way to defeat Spain as the Swiss proved, but sadly, the rest that were left in Spains wake wern't as organized as the Swiss, at the back.

Paraguay had a goal wrongly disallowed, Chilie had a player wrongly sent off, Iniesta could've been sent off in the final, Spain were really lucky.

Lord Spencer wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:I'll list the countries who have improved in the last 5 years.

Cote D' Ivoire
Japan
U.S.A
Uruguay
Algeria
Ghana
Egypt
Mexico
Paraguay
Chile

The only teams that you can say to have improved are : Japan and the U.S.A and Ghana

Mexico always had the potential.
Egypt are yet to reach a consistent performance.
Lol Algeria
Uruguay were always a powerhouse, the current class is simply an upward cycle. (Muslera takes more credit for their success than the outfield players by the way)
Paraguay and Chile were also good sides in SA

Cote D' Ivore are like Cameroon and Nigeria, showing us that they are one year wonders.

The irony, most of these teams improved simply because they raised their fitness and play defensive football.

And for each of these teams, I can name teams that were once feared and now are meh.
The point, do not look at single teams, but the overall trend. Look at the World Player awards, no real contenders outside of Messi and CR7 exist. Some take this as a signal of their dominance, while taking it as a signal of the lack of competition is the more logical approach.

Adit wrote:Only italy has gone down in player production.

England-remains the same or even better talents are coming instead of hoof the ball older generation.

spain-are going throw their golden era.Fabregas,Borja Valero,Mata,Llorente,Jesus navas are bench players for spain.This is one of the best spanish sides ever.And their future is looking even better.


Germany-very young but talented footballers,also i beg to note down the quality difference between germany 2002 (shit) and germany 2010 ( cheers ).

France-definitely slowed down a bit but its temporary,you are always gona miss players like zidane and thuram.

Holland-Remains the same imo.They just made WC final ,enough said.


Portugal-arguabily they are in their golden era if we consider their history.

Uruguay-improved alotttttttt


Mexico--same as uruguay


Brazil-Always produces talents,no doubt they are strong as always


Argentina-Has just produced arguablily top 10 player of all time. Enough said.



Italy-shittest state evaaaa,and their future looks even worser.

pirat


I don't think you've been watching football for too long. I only agree with Germany, Spain and Uruguay.

England- Underachieving as before but really Beckham or Ashley Young? Shearer or Carrol? Sol Campbell or Matthew Upson? Scholes or Barry?

France- Quality drop is clear to see. Zidane, Deschamps, Blanc, Thuram, Henry, Trezeguet, Pires

Holland- They made the final by playing rugby, before they had better players in Cruyff, Overmars, Bergkamp, Nisteroy, Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard, Davids, Stam, Kluivert, Neeskens and played mesmerizing total football.

Portugal- Golden era, really? I think their defence is one of the best they ever had and they have world class wingers but golden era is a bit too far . Figo, Rui Costa, Pauleta were there before and I bet you think 1966 only had Eusebio but they more players from the legendary Benfica team of the 60s. That was their real golden era.

Mexico- Improved yes, but not A LOT as you say.

Brazil- Full of raw talents, I'm not going to waste my breath comparing the current crop to the previous crop.

Argentina- One player and nuff said, really? Funny that one player can't even score a goal in a major international tournament. Batistuta or Higuain? Ayala or Burdisso? Riquelme or Banega?

Lord Spencer wrote:
Serge Gnabry wrote:Well, imo football has become even more professional and competitive with more well educated and developed players than ever before and that's why it's not that easy to shine anymore.

I just watched a few Bundesliga games from a few years ago and the league and the ball that is being played nowadays has improved so much.

More pressing, more tactics, less long balls, less playing back to the keeper, less high uncoordinated clearings straight into the air.

Same with the EPL. Not a lot kick & rush there.

So yes, I disagree with what you are saying. The fact that event he small clubs are so professional and extremely well coached these days and constantly press and press and press neutralized many things and makes it harder to dominate (except Barca Wink).

Germany are by the far the exception to the trend, why?? Oh here comes the good part...........
.

.
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.
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BECAUSE THEY DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT, 10 years ago, they had a rude awakening and had to change the whole structure of the Bundesliga and the teams, and training, etc. You are reaping the efforts of that collective change.

Which exactly why more nations need to identify the trend, and counter it s Germany did. Spain might be doing well talent-wise, but a quick look at their debt problems, and their league, and you would understand the invisible foundations it stand upon.

I am not preaching a message of doom and gloom here, but the mistakes of the present needs to be identified to fix the for the future.

The EPL might not be as much hoof ball as it was before, but the state of things there is not getting any better. Gentlemen, the German model is by far the best solution to avoid what might become a real crisis.

I completely agree with this. With their excellent youth policy, Germany is on this rise, THIS is the model to follow.

ali8775 wrote:Hollands youth is uninspiring ?

georginio wijnaldum
Ozyakup
Afellay
Elia
Wiel
Krul
Luuk De Jong
Fer

They are all raw talents. Who is to say whether they will be a Linoel Messi or Javier Saviola? Only time will tell.

maverick wrote:
jibers wrote:
maverick wrote:No it hasnt. Have you seen Barcelona play

You my friend are brain dead.

anybody who doesn't see the beauty of barca's passing is braindead

I'm sorry but side passing around the defence does not excite everyone. Sometimes Barca are a delight to watch (5-0 against Real,, Champions League Final against Man td) and I have seen much better. eg: Sacchi's Milan, Cruyff's Ajax, Rocco's Milan, 70 Brazil, 82 Brazil etc.

jibers wrote:I agree with this completely. I have been watching football regularly since 1984, and this is the worst period that I can remember. Before in the past football was less to do with tactics and more to do with individuality. This I am afraid is the natural progression of football.

When people realised that football was potentially lucrative, more and morte moneyare being invested in football clubs,meaning that managers are more reactive than expressive tactically as they do not want to take any risks, so football has become a morew collective game at the expense of this individuality.

The 2010 World Cup sums up my point quite nicely. It was boring, lacked passion and was tactical as teams tried to stifel each other from playing rather than try and go for a win. That is the way football is today. Prevent defeat comes first before winning. Spain summed up the world cup for me, with their keep possession mentality, they monopolise the ball. Cruyffs visiopn was to promote attacking football, but on the biggest stage, the idea of 'tiki taka' was bastardised to avoid defeat rather than attack. This might be sligtly harsh as they were always playing against packed defenses, but that is my point.

The jabulani ball also symbolises todays football, commercial and synthetic. Diego Forlan was the only player I saw score a free kick in open play. The technical ability of today's footballers has dropped dramatically. You then watch maradona in training mastering the Jabulani like it was nothing, then you hear footballers coming out to complain. This is slightly harsh as I am using arguably the greatest footballer to judge the players of today, but you get my point.

You cannot blame managers, so many people are getting fired in todays games for not producing 'amazing' results. It certainly isn't helped by the amount of overseas investors pouring their moneys into foreign clubs, demanding results immediately, meaning there is so much pressure to win that tactical innovation is stifled. In today's current atmosphere, Cruyff, Rinus Michels and even Sir Alex Ferguson would probably not have had a job for more than 2 season. Hell Louis Van gaal is the last great coach of the old era and he has been fired from Bayern, even after achieving a double the season before. Ancelotti, one of the best coaches in Europe has also be fired from Chelsea after winning a double the season before.

With all this pressureI always wonder how stupid people mus be to come out and say teams should invest in youth. The way football is going I don't see that happenening. Noone should use Barcelona as an example. They have only found this success in their youth system after almost 15 years. Who has that time?

How many outstanding footballers are there in the world today? Messi? That's it pretty much. The standard of individual footballers has dropped. The fall of Series A has also contributed to this as well. Jose Mourinho is the coach that mostly sums up this era's football. People that complain that he is a defensive coach should get a grip, he is the product of the idea I talked about before, avoding defeat comes first above trying to win. He is the product of today's philosophy.

My Uncle, who has been watching football since 1964 said this is the worst era of football he has ever seen. As footall has moved from indiviuality to tactics, players like Nani are being put on the bench for players like Park. Is there a balance between tactics and individuality? We will have to wait and see, because currently, no team has found the right balance, and I see football going into a rut for the next 20 years.

Completely agree with this post. I'm not saying football is completely dead, I'm saying compared to the past it has lost a lot of it's beauty.







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