Mbappe may be headed to EPL

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Post by The Madrid One Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:33 pm

Careful with underestimating or throwing shade at Real Madrid's La Fabrica.

The Centre International d'Etude du Sport, a pretty serious and respectable Swiss research and education organization cofounded by FIFA in the mid 90s has, for at least the last twelve years (that's when I first started looking at their yearly youth academy rankings), consistently placed Real Madrid's youth academy as top 1 or 2 in the world when it comes to producing talent that plays across the top 5 European leagues (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France).  

As per their parameters, "Training clubs are those where players have been for at least three years between the ages of 15 and 21 (including the seasons of the 15th and 21st birthdays)."

For the 2023 rankings published in October 2023:

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost436

- Real Madrid's academy is the best in the world at producing players that play in the top 5 European leagues (best leagues in the world). In comparison, the oh so lauded Ajax academy comes in at 15th place and PSG comes in at 5th place, with a deficit of almost  20 players when compared to Madrid's output.

- Real Madrid's academy is in the top 10 in the world (9th place) when it comes to producing players that play in the top 31 European leagues.

- Real Madrid's academy is 14th in the world when it comes to producing players that play in the top 48 leagues in the world.

For those last two placements Real Madrid is mostly overtaken by relatively much smaller clubs from Portugal, Eastern Europe, and South America that have youth academies that are structured differently with different purposes in mind. These clubs economically rely on their factories producing lower-range talent in bulk.

Considering the context of Real Madrid's place in the world and its needs, having the most prolific academy in the world at producing talent for the best leagues in the world is very nice. Could things still be done better? Of course, and surely they will be.

The PSG academy comes out at #23 for producing top 48 league players and #14 when it comes to top 31 European league players.



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Post by sportsczy Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:45 pm

Top-end talent TMO.  As mentioned, castilla produces mid-table talent as a business and does that well.  But zero top-end talent because it's not designed to feed Real Madrid.  Castilla is part of La Fabrica.  La Fabrica type orgs are illegal in France as I'll explain below.

On the other hand, academies in France, Germany and Holland (the good ones mind you) are designed to feed the top team and start at age 12 and 13.

To explain:  PSG has 140 youth players total (70 men and 70 women).  La Fabrica has 270 male male players alone.  Why the difference?  French professional teams can only recruit players that are minimum of 13 years old by law.  That's why there are after-school football academies that are local (you have to go to regular school until the age of 13) that then feed the professional academies.  La Fabrica starts at any age and has Prebenjamín which is under 8 years old.

So i don't agree with the formula used above.  It's overly general.  It doesn't discuss the number of players that an academy has (ratio is important) and the structural differences.

Just as an example, Mbappe stayed with AS Bondy until he was 14.  Went to Monaco after that (Zidane was trying hard to recruit him for Madrid Castilla).
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Post by The Madrid One Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:09 pm

Part of the purpose of Castilla will of course be to feed the first team. There are periods where clubs have booms, list off some of the great top tier elite talent that PSG has produced in the last 25 years, I'm not convinced the list will be particularly overflowing. You mentioned Anelka, apparently he only played in PSG's academy + first team for 2 years. You also mentioned Evra, he never played in the PSG academy or first team. 10 years ago when Madrid won La Decima we had Iker Casillas, Diego López, Arbeloa, Carvajal, Nacho, Jese (pre career ending injury he looked very good), and Morata in the squad and since then players have come from the academy which have been good enough to potentially be part of Champions League and League winning squads.

We could go deeper into the formulas, but regardless, these numbers speak for themselves and speak positively of Madrid.


Last edited by The Madrid One on Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:49 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:14 pm

Guy stop, cherrypicking talent from the Castilla for the sake of it is fruitless. It just doesn't produce top end talent as the only world class player from there was Casillas the rest not even close.

Madrid is known for a lot with their ridiculous recent success but their youth system is nowhere near the reason for it. Not even close.
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Post by The Madrid One Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:30 pm

Laughing

What are you on about, guy?

Nowhere did I say our recent success was because of our youth system. The numbers and reality show that Real Madrid's academy is outputting a very good amount of talent into the top leagues in the world and has consistently provided some talent that has been good enough to be part of Champions League and league winning teams/squads.

I'm not the one getting hung up with "top end/world class" tags.
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:36 pm

My entire premise is not the youth being the reason for their success its that the youth system simply isn't very good especially in ratio for a size their of their club. Other top clubs easily beat out RM on that spectrum.

The sample size of successful youth to the ones who are average has just been too small to say the numbers speak positively for Madrid, when they simply dont.

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Post by The Madrid One Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:03 pm

Go ahead and list off the clubs who are packed with 100% elite, world class, FUT team of the week champions league talent born out of their youth systems and how they've looked over the last 15-25  years, id be interested in seeing that.

I've already said that Madrid's Academy could still be doing better actually, they could be doing more to consistently produce more of the "elite" players, but that's not easy and I'm not seeing many other clubs do that excessively and regularly over spans of years..

What I am seeing for the last 12 years at least is Madrid outputting several players who are or could be part of Champions League/league winning squads and Madrid coming out on top of rankings for outputting players into the top 5 leagues, something which most other "big clubs" in Europe are looking a joke in comparatively.

PSG was compared here, what have they produced in terms of top top elite talent over the last 20 or 25 years? Looking at the Wikipedia page it doesn't look that flattering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Saint-Germain_Academy#Notable_graduates
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Post by FennecFox7 Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:07 pm

sportsczy wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:Wonder if Ethan Mbappe and the rest of the family will move to Madrid as well.

He's actually really good so I doubt it. PSG's academy is far far better than Madrid's too.


He is roommates with my cousin. I think he should stay at PSG. He’s doing pretty well there, although I haven’t caught the recent games. Is Mbappe to Madrid basically a done deal at this point? From what I’ve been told it pretty much is.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:34 pm

FennecFox7 wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:Wonder if Ethan Mbappe and the rest of the family will move to Madrid as well.

He's actually really good so I doubt it.  PSG's academy is far far better than Madrid's too.


He is roommates with my cousin. I think he should stay at PSG. He’s doing pretty well there, although I haven’t caught the recent games. Is Mbappe to Madrid basically a done deal at this point? From what I’ve been told it pretty much is.

It is.  Enrique took him out at halftime again today against Monaco and Mbappe went to the stands to sit with his mother...  smiling.  PSG isn't respecting him so he's mentally let go.  In my mind, they should stop playing him period at this point.  He's not even attacking with speed anymore when he's 1v1.  Going through the motions.  The relationship is broken.

Yanis, who is a big PSG friend of mine (has a youtube channel on PSG) said it perfectly today:
"It's a shame that the biggest legend of the club is leaving this way.  The club is petty and Mbappe announced too soon.  Now, Luis Enrique needs to do what he has to do.  But PSG fans have to understand...  the French media is going to continue to annihilate the club and Enrique because Mbappe is France.  It's like Zidane or Platini.  He is bigger than PSG.  Did Enrique have a big problem with Messi too?I think he did.  He doesn't like big personalities on his teams. He left Ramos off of Spain as well for some terrible Barca center back."

Did he?  I don't remember if Messi and Enrique got along.
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:49 pm

he's right about Ramos. Eric Garcia instead of Ramos!

That said Enrique is known for his oversized ego!
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Post by sportsczy Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:58 pm

futbol_bill wrote:he's right about Ramos. Eric Garcia instead of Ramos!

That said Enrique is known for his oversized ego!
I think he'll still do a good job at PSG, especially next season. But man is Enrique annoying. I'm a fan of his but he's getting on my nerves with the way he talks. His tone is "who are you to question the decisions of a football genius like me".
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Post by BarcaLearning Tue Mar 05, 2024 1:23 pm

I dunno the language so wouldnt know Razz All I know is his selections are so weird n chop n change all the time n fielding players in others positions... its just too much. N sad to see Mbappe will not be used fully for the rest of the season then? Will he go hard to try to win the CL b4 he leaves? I hope so otherwise a real waste n shame...
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Post by sportsczy Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:04 pm

Watch him bench Mbappe tonight. I can almost guarantee it lol.
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Post by BarcaLearning Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:47 am

Good to see actually he was just rested for the CL Very Happy Nobody watched the game I assume here? R16 are also a joke already since the level difference of the matchups... but Mbappe scored another brace... the first one was a great goal again Very Happy

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Post by Vibe Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:51 am

Can't replace Mbappe at halftime in CL, huh.

In Ligue 1 there is only Brest miles behind, the balls on Enrique disappear in CL.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:03 pm

Vibe wrote:Can't replace Mbappe at halftime in CL, huh.

In Ligue 1 there is only Brest miles behind, the balls on Enrique disappear in CL.

IF Enrique simply said that he is limiting Mbappe's minutes in Ligue 1 so that he's fresh for CL games, assuming PSG maintain their lead... fine.  I can buy that.

If you say that, given the lead in Ligue 1, I want to take the opportunity to try different combinations so that i can assess my squad prior to the summer mercato... i can buy that too.

But to say that "we need to learn how to play without him sooner or later.  I have to prepare next season."...  is insane.  It doesn't even make sense.
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Post by Doc Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:02 am

So when is he coming to Real Madrid again? Asking for a friend who watched a terrible football today.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:30 am

Doc wrote:So when is he coming to Real Madrid again? Asking for a friend who watched a terrible football today.

It's done already. Just waiting for PSG to get out of CL in case PSG and Madrid play each other. Then it will be announced.
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:47 pm

Most overrated player of all time and it’s not even close (or maybe Haaland could come close)
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Post by Vibe Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:47 pm

Kneejerk much?

Clearly out of sync with the rest of the team.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:24 pm

I did not expect Dembulance to be a much more formidable threat than Mbappe, but it seems that the turtle is elsewhere with his thoughts and is committed to another team already, at least in spirit if not yet in body.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:42 pm

I don't know if he's already mentally checked out but his performance against Barça was absolutely disgraceful. There were even times I genuinely found myself questioning whether he was even playing.

There is no excuse for such a horrible performance. No disrespect to Xavi or his team, but this is not exactly prime Guardiola's Barça you are playing here.

I was expecting him to give a much better performance than the disappointing one he had.
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Post by Pedram Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:54 pm

I think he clearly didn't like the reaction from Enrique after he told him he's leaving, he's got too big of a ego to be substituted in the middle of the match.

I don't know what he was expecting though, you told them to fuck off and still want to be treated like a king? Laughing can't have your cake and eat it too bro.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:25 pm

He didn't tell them to f off.  He just told them that he'd be playing his contract out and then he'd leave in the summer.  Do you know how many times that's happened in RM without a problem?   Ronaldo's last year.  Modric this year.  Just some recent examples.  Besides, it's ok for the club not to renew players but players can't play out their contracts?  Mbappe's issue is that Enrique doesn't even tell him which matches he plays or doesn't... he finds out literally when the team sheet is official.  He feels that he deserves a little more respect.

Also, he's the type of player that plays at very high speeds...  and so he needs to play a lot to keep sharpness.  Right now, he plays 1 match out of 2 or 3 and not even a full match.  Also, they play him CF and LW.  30-60 mins a week isn't enough, which is what he's playing.

The team keeps changing too.  Asensio hasn't even played and he's suddenly up front.  Vitinha has been playing holding mid or on Mbappe's side... and he played on the right for the first time.  Ugarte and Ruiz had NEVER played together.  First time for Marquinhos at RB.  Also, first time that Lucas and Beraldo were the CB pairing (always Danilo or Marquinhos as RCB and Lucas or Beraldo on the left).

None of the players knew what they were doing.  Enrique tries too hard to be seen as a genius and an authority figure.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:31 pm

Other than the final of the Coupe de France, the second leg might be his last match with PSG if PSG get eliminated. Enrique does not want to use players that are leaving.

Another example is Kolo Muani who is used everywhere other than CF... which is his role. He never plays anymore because he's going to be sold in the summer. Same with Mukiele... he's a part-time sub and rarely plays since he's headed to Bayern in the summer.

Just how it is.
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Post by Pedram Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:01 pm

Wait Kolo Muani is leaving? didn't he literally join PSG last summer, what happened?
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