Super League - time to reconsider

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Post by sportsczy Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:14 pm

With FIFA running amock (more clubs/games for FIFA club competition and more NTs/games for World Cup) and UEFA taking a similar trajectory to FIFA... maybe a Super League isn't a bad thing. Bureaucrats shouldn't lead football. They're just looking to create situations where they can steal more. At least businessmen have a vested interest in the health and performance of their players.

It's becoming the lesser of two evils and I never thought I'd say that.

Such a shame.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:44 pm

maybe, perhaps... i was never entirely against the idea
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:05 pm

sportsczy wrote:With FIFA running amock (more clubs/games for FIFA club competition and more NTs/games for World Cup) and UEFA taking a similar trajectory to FIFA...  maybe a Super League isn't a bad thing.  Bureaucrats shouldn't lead football.  They're just looking to create situations where they can steal more.  At least businessmen have a vested interest in the health and performance of their players.

It's becoming the lesser of two evils and I never thought I'd say that.


Such a shame.

Wow, neither did I!

The original introduction / presentation of this was very poor, with the almost complete shutdown as a result. If you listen to the rationale etc from Perez, it is quite different from that “only exclusively elite” impression the presentation gave.

The future depends very much on the upcoming court finding, which both sides thinking it will be in their favor. If court sides with UEFA view, the super liga will be completely dead. However if it is the opposite view, then the renewed effort will commence.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:14 pm

It's a franchise model.  It needs to be adjusted though...  you need to have a critical mass of franchises in every major city of major countries, regardless of football history.  It also cannot create favorites among any of the franchises... they all need to be equal.

In the US, the NFL did this and, although initially, the bigger franchises lost some revenue... they exponentially gained more as the value of the overall league skyrocketed due to parity very quickly.  It also created an even playing field among franchises.

Not sure if Madrid, Barca, etc. want that.  But that's the only way such a model will work.
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Post by halamadrid2 Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:45 pm

The verdict comes this Thursday. Will be interesting to see what the verdict will be. Will be crucial in whether the ESL will die a slow death or could become a serious thing. LaLiga having us play on the same day Laughing
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Post by Myesyats Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:14 pm

Is it true that Barca and Madrid will receive a lot of money if the verdict is in their favor? Asking for a friend
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:15 am

What's there to reconsider? What's exactly wrong with the CL?

If big clubs want to phase each other more often, then sure, next year the group stage will allow for that.

But creating a closed circuit where it doesn't matter whether you win or lose should be off the table.

There's ideas I'm willing to consider. Let's get rid of the EL and expand the CL participation. Let's figure out ways to improve the product. But let's not give a handful of clubs capture football.

This is not the US. A franchise model is incompatible with merit, effort and competition. It only benefits club owners. It has not place in European football.
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Post by halamadrid2 Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:01 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:What's there to reconsider? What's exactly wrong with the CL?

Money

CLs new format is basically a carboncopy of the ESL but with more teams
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Post by sportsczy Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:31 pm

Yes, the franchise model removes the risk of relegation. However, it does force parody. If implemented correctly (NFL and NBA as examples), all the teams have the same salary cap to work with. It's a percentage of overall league revenue. Also, all teams have to spend a set percentage of their revenue on players, no exceptions. There's also a player draft system for new players where the worse teams pick first. Everyone competes. Yes, you can get super teams through free agency. But free agency only happens after 7 years for a player. So assuming a player goes pro at 18, free agency is at 25.

The competition is a lot more interesting. This "meritocracy" system in Europe is rigged for the elite frankly with FFP.

BUT, I'm assuming the Super League is similar to the NFL and NBA... no favorites. no teams with higher revenue shares... which is not what Madrid proposing at all. As currently structured, I'm 100 percent against the Super League. I'm just opening the door to a new proposal.
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Post by Nishankly Wed Dec 20, 2023 3:23 pm

No, we wouldn't be able to play small teams like United. How would they win the game 0-0 against teams like Liverpool? Football is made for the underdogs, let's not take that away
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Dec 20, 2023 3:37 pm

The US franchise model will not work in Europe. First off it’s not a singular country with laws and regulations. Secondly, the entire European system is built upon four or 5 levels of domestic leagues, all supported by revenues of the very best in Europe. You can’t have the so called super teams abandoning the domestic leagues without severely damaging the entire system.

Nor did the Perez’s proposal say to abandon the domestic leagues. As I have said several times, to apparently deaf ears, the original presentation / proposal was flawed in many respects and if you listen to Perez’ attempted clarifications, it is not a closed elite competition.

But in any case, further discussion on this is a waste of time until we hear what tomorrow’s ruling will be. It will either be a dead super league proposal or a new proposal beginning. In that latter event, I expect we can look thru the revision to see if there still are the objections!
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Post by Pedram Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:42 am

UEFA lost GET INNN
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Post by Vibe Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:21 pm

For real?
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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:28 pm



BOOM!

Tebas will be crying all day after this verdict.
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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:31 pm


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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:34 pm


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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:40 pm



Unreal the amount of corruption that goes on behind closed doors
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:06 pm

Obviously England wishes to protect the PL from competition. That might be against FIFA's rules on government intervention, but it seems unlikely that they would step in...
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Post by Myesyats Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:37 pm

Perez just saved Barca from bankruptcy single-handedly. Bigger club legend than Fraudiola in my book hmm
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Post by sportsczy Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:57 pm

Looks like this is going nowhere regardless of ruling.

UK is creating legislation which would make it quasi impossible for SL to be viable for any club there.  France is doing the same.  Germany too.  

Here's the UK one:  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/european-super-league-sunak-ban-b2467883.html

SL would be just Spain and Italy. Without EPL clubs and Bayern, PSG, etc.... SL cannot exist viably.
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Post by Firenze Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:01 pm

it's completely dead if the PL clubs can't/won't join
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Post by El Gunner Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:06 pm

sportsczy wrote:Looks like this is going nowhere regardless of ruling.

UK is creating legislation which would make it quasi impossible for SL to be viable for any club there.  France is doing the same.  Germany too.  

Here's the UK one:  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/european-super-league-sunak-ban-b2467883.html

SL would be just Spain and Italy. Without EPL clubs and Bayern, PSG, etc.... SL cannot exist viably.

booooo

so i guess we'll have to settle for a future of Man City and Newcastle dominating
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Post by sportsczy Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:35 pm

Besides all of UK...  PSG, Bayern, Dortmund have made a public statement that they have no interest in SL.  Manchester United separately stated it had no interest.

Btw, I don't think that Serie A and La Liga clubs joining one league is a bad idea mainly because the federations there are incredibly corrupt and useless.  So even in that context, SL may be good.  However, UEFA can bar them from playing UEFA competitions.  They can't sanction them monetarily or kick them out... but they can bar them from returning if they decide to leave their domestic leagues per the ruling.  

It's going to be very difficult.
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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:05 pm

Firenze wrote:it's completely dead if the PL clubs can't/won't join
Didn't the same happen back in the day when the CL was to be created. It was always the English teams that refused to join. But joined in the end and now they are refusing to join this new SL. They'll join eventually like they always do. Far too many Yanks who own teams.

But I get why the British want to protect their huge TV deals. Free to view games will scupper their financial upperhand. But this is far better than the CL and EL where Uefa pocket most of the mpney for doing f all. This gives more power to the clubs and away from vultures like Fifa and Uefa.

There is a huge amount of smear campaigns that's going on right now. I really want this new league to succeed just so that we can step away from those bastards forever.
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Post by The Madrid One Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:31 pm

As it stands a few hours in and this already looks like another fiasco for Florentino Pérez's rosebud lovechild attempt at being Santiago Bernabeu.

I personally can't stomach the idea of our champions league history being nullified, I hope that Perez doesn't take this club down an avenue where we're left out of the UCL competing in some kind of Mickey Mouse cup while everyone else looks at us in pity and disgust.

Even going back to that garbage retarded proposal of 2021, instead of proposing specific super league tournament formats and what not there should have been some kind of expose committed by a super team of united super clubs detailing just how bad they think UEFA and FIFA are doing things. Something that brought discussion and limelight to whatever their gripes are.

This looks bad again. Again with that brain dead PR from both sides about "saving football", only that it's working for UEFA.
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