Super League - time to reconsider

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Post by The Madrid One Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:31 pm

As it stands a few hours in and this already looks like another fiasco for Florentino Pérez's rosebud lovechild attempt at being Santiago Bernabeu.

I personally can't stomach the idea of our champions league history being nullified, I hope that Perez doesn't take this club down an avenue where we're left out of the UCL competing in some kind of Mickey Mouse cup while everyone else looks at us in pity and disgust.

Even going back to that garbage retarded proposal of 2021, instead of proposing specific super league tournament formats and what not there should have been some kind of expose committed by a super team of united super clubs detailing just how bad they think UEFA and FIFA are doing things. Something that brought discussion and limelight to whatever their gripes are.

This looks bad again. Again with that brain dead PR from both sides about "saving football", only that it's working for UEFA.

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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:41 pm



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Post by sportsczy Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:46 pm

A few notes:
-  The clubs who signed on to media deals cannot leave until the media deals are over without paying crazy penalties (if they can at all).
-  If countries (like the UK and, soon, France and Germany) put into place legislation that creates a crazy fiscal environment to leave the domestic league, the clubs won't move.  It's all about the money.  

It's an empty win.  It's going nowhere.  At best, Spain and Italy eventually create a SL with each other... but I doubt that happens.

Now, UEFA cannot kick teams (like Madrid and Barca) out of competitions unless they leave themselves. BUT, they can definitely bar them from returning. That's a massive risk for a club to take. Imagine joining the SL, it fails, and then not being able to return to the domestic/European/FIFA competitions. I wouldn't do it.

In fact, I know that the French lFederation asks for risk-adjusted guarantees each year by clubs to protect employees. Imagine the guarantees that they will ask from clubs who are joining a startup league... likely exponentially more than current ones.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:58 pm

Bottom line: The ruling allows the SL to come up with a formula that can be sold without facing reprisals from UEFA and FIFA. It has to be vastly different from the current one. Closed competitions are a non-starter.

Three possible scenarios:
- UEFA and FIFA go bankrupt or start losing money which impact clubs. If the money stops flowing, clubs will look for alternatives. Unlikely.
- The political environment becomes positive for SL. Again, highly unlikely.
- Fans clamor for SL. Other than Madrid, Barca, and maybe a couple of Italian teams... highly unlikely.

It has a snowball's chance in hell basically.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:12 pm

Late as usual n with the stupid questions Razz But I gathered this is basically now EPL who has the advantages vs Flo led Real, Barca, Juve? Is that right? If so, why does Flo think he can beat the establishment of Uefa especially if they are also together with the EPL?
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Post by Pedram Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:14 pm

Why are England, Germany, France so loyal to UEFA anyway? what are they getting in return for sucking up so much to them.

UEFA is a corrupt organization, they take most of the revenue for themselves while giving clubs fuck all in return to these clubs, it makes no sense to not even give SL a chance as an alternative.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:24 pm

I see today's statements as essentially void. These clubs will come round to the idea eventually if they are guaranteed their revenue to be tripled

The ESL winner is supposed to get 400m compared to 120m in CL
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Post by El Gunner Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:28 pm

Myesyats wrote:I see today's statements as essentially void. These clubs will come round to the idea eventually if they are guaranteed their revenue to be tripled

The ESL winner is supposed to get 400m compared to 120m in CL

yea i think so too... it's really the future of football

if they can make it with strict salary caps and equal distribution of revenue like how it is in the NBA and NFL, then I'm completely for it... that will be the best possible outcome
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Post by sportsczy Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:33 pm

Pedram wrote:Why are England, Germany, France so loyal to UEFA anyway? what are they getting in return for sucking up so much to them.

UEFA is a corrupt organization, they take most of the revenue for themselves while giving clubs fuck all in return to these clubs, it makes no sense to not even give SL a chance as an alternative.

It's the meritocracy they're behind.  In France, div 2 and div 3 football is just as important as div 1.  There's a lot of movement up and down and it's not the same clubs.  It allows teams to market and pay for the player development programs that France is famous for and so dependent on.  Kids play early and lot against the highest level of competition. SL makes zero sense in France.

Besides, it's a social democracy.  France absolutely despises elitism of any kind.

The EPL is not dominated by any two teams.  5-6 teams have a legit chance of winning EPL every year and the rest of the league is good.  Also, big clubs of the past such as Everton, Nottingham Forrest, Leeds, etc have been relegated.  With SL, they would be buried.  But with the current system, they can come back.  

Germany's football culture is very much about the entire ecosystem as opposed to any one team.  How the league is run, how clubs are owned and managed + how the game is played are very important in Germany.  That's why Leipzig is so hated... it's owned by a corporation as opposed to the traditional way.  SL is an absolute non-starter culturally.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:50 pm

Then why the pushers of the Super League pushing so hard if they know they would get so much opposition from so many big opponents (hence very little chance of success)? Razz Are Flo n co that desperates? (I guess Barca are too then lol)
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Post by Pedram Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:09 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:Then why the pushers of the Super League pushing so hard if they know they would get so much opposition from so many big opponents (hence very little chance of success)? Razz Are Flo n co that desperates? (I guess Barca are too then lol)

You want the non-PR bullshit truth? Barca and Madrid simply cannot compete with Arabs and their infinite oil money because they are fan-owned clubs, the current model is unsustainable in the long run and might lead to their financial demise.

It's a desperate move but Flo and Laporta don't have any other options.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:11 pm

Why not wait to hear what the proposal will be? The first one was obviously flawed and the presentation that’s coming will be quite different for sure.

One thing that has definitely been misunderstood. Teams in this super-league are not abandoning the domestic ligas. This competition is proposed as the alternative to current Champions League,

And the revised proposal will not be a closed competition.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:15 pm

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1737789991642673224

Saw this on Barcaforum n makes the format seem very simple n pretty good? As presented anyway...

Never thought I would consider it, but as more I find out n realize that the ever expanding CL n WC n EC n etc. its just gonna drop in quality n dont want Barca to continue downhill financially as well Razz Wouldnt mind something that saves us in that regard...
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:21 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Pedram wrote:Why are England, Germany, France so loyal to UEFA anyway? what are they getting in return for sucking up so much to them.

UEFA is a corrupt organization, they take most of the revenue for themselves while giving clubs fuck all in return to these clubs, it makes no sense to not even give SL a chance as an alternative.

It's the meritocracy they're behind.  In France, div 2 and div 3 football is just as important as div 1.  There's a lot of movement up and down and it's not the same clubs.  It allows teams to market and pay for the player development programs that France is famous for and so dependent on.  Kids play early and lot against the highest level of competition.  SL makes zero sense in France.

Besides, it's a social democracy.  France absolutely despises elitism of any kind.

The EPL is not dominated by any two teams.  5-6 teams have a legit chance of winning EPL every year and the rest of the league is good.  Also, big clubs of the past such as Everton, Nottingham Forrest, Leeds, etc have been relegated.  With SL, they would be buried.  But with the current system, they can come back.  

Germany's football culture is very much about the entire ecosystem as opposed to any one team.  How the league is run, how clubs are owned and managed + how the game is played are very important in Germany.  That's why Leipzig is so hated... it's owned by a corporation as opposed to the traditional way.  SL is an absolute non-starter culturally.


Couple of statements in this post, I find interesting.

France absolutely despises elitism of any kind. - it’s the other way around. It’s been my experienced that most French considered themselves elite and are generally considered arrogant!

SL makes zero sense in France. France doesn’t have a top strong team other than propped up arab money behind PSG, so them being in a super league makes zero sense!
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Post by sportsczy Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:30 pm

futbol_bill wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Pedram wrote:Why are England, Germany, France so loyal to UEFA anyway? what are they getting in return for sucking up so much to them.

UEFA is a corrupt organization, they take most of the revenue for themselves while giving clubs fuck all in return to these clubs, it makes no sense to not even give SL a chance as an alternative.

It's the meritocracy they're behind.  In France, div 2 and div 3 football is just as important as div 1.  There's a lot of movement up and down and it's not the same clubs.  It allows teams to market and pay for the player development programs that France is famous for and so dependent on.  Kids play early and lot against the highest level of competition.  SL makes zero sense in France.

Besides, it's a social democracy.  France absolutely despises elitism of any kind.

The EPL is not dominated by any two teams.  5-6 teams have a legit chance of winning EPL every year and the rest of the league is good.  Also, big clubs of the past such as Everton, Nottingham Forrest, Leeds, etc have been relegated.  With SL, they would be buried.  But with the current system, they can come back.  

Germany's football culture is very much about the entire ecosystem as opposed to any one team.  How the league is run, how clubs are owned and managed + how the game is played are very important in Germany.  That's why Leipzig is so hated... it's owned by a corporation as opposed to the traditional way.  SL is an absolute non-starter culturally.


Couple of statements in this post, I find interesting.

France absolutely despises elitism of any kind. - it’s the other way around. It’s been my experienced that most French considered themselves elite and are generally considered arrogant!

SL makes zero sense in France. France doesn’t have a top strong team other than propped up arab money behind PSG, so them being in a super league makes zero sense!

Both Spaniards and French are considered arrogant Bill.   But the French hate elitism... although they are arrogant people.  One has nothing to do with another.

Your second point is exactly why the SL will get political roadblocks that it cannot overcome.  It's elitist and it a perfect target for populists, social democrats and socialists... which is most of Europe. Just a dud from the start.
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Post by Firenze Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:31 pm

Pedram wrote:Why are England, Germany, France so loyal to UEFA anyway? what are they getting in return for sucking up so much to them.

UEFA is a corrupt organization, they take most of the revenue for themselves while giving clubs fuck all in return to these clubs, it makes no sense to not even give SL a chance as an alternative.

Didn't all the major EPL clubs agree to join originally? but there was huge backlash from the fans, so they backtracked

I'm not sure where I stand on it tbh...I grew up with CL nights...the anthem means a lot to me lmao
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Post by El Gunner Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:35 pm

yup^^ they were all in on it till the huge fan and media backlash... this is why i feel they are just laying back waiting for the right time to strike again
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Post by sportsczy Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:37 pm

Firenze wrote:
Pedram wrote:Why are England, Germany, France so loyal to UEFA anyway? what are they getting in return for sucking up so much to them.

UEFA is a corrupt organization, they take most of the revenue for themselves while giving clubs fuck all in return to these clubs, it makes no sense to not even give SL a chance as an alternative.

Didn't all the major EPL clubs agree to join originally? but there was huge backlash from the fans, so they backtracked

I'm not sure where I stand on it tbh...I grew up with CL nights...the anthem means a lot to me lmao

Man U publicly bashed SL and showed support for UEFA today as a FYI. Public statement.

Everyone joined to see where it went. Didn't want to get left behind. However, the fans and, more importantly, the UK government squashed it. So they backtracked quickly.

The rumor is that the UK government is going to implement legislation that will automatically revoke the land lease of the stadiums for clubs that join SL. Remember that all land is leased in the UK... it is not privately owned. No club can play without a stadium lol.
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Post by Pedram Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:56 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Firenze wrote:
Pedram wrote:Why are England, Germany, France so loyal to UEFA anyway? what are they getting in return for sucking up so much to them.

UEFA is a corrupt organization, they take most of the revenue for themselves while giving clubs fuck all in return to these clubs, it makes no sense to not even give SL a chance as an alternative.

Didn't all the major EPL clubs agree to join originally? but there was huge backlash from the fans, so they backtracked

I'm not sure where I stand on it tbh...I grew up with CL nights...the anthem means a lot to me lmao


The rumor is that the UK government is going to implement legislation that will automatically revoke the land lease of the stadiums for clubs that join SL.  Remember that all land is leased in the UK... it is not privately owned.  No club can play without a stadium lol.

Wouldn't that be government interference in football affairs? i thought that was strictly forbidden by FIFA?

Or they won't say anything this time because government are on their side lol, just shows how hypocrite everyone is tbh.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:34 pm

Kind of ironic that the guy who restarted the discussion and this thread saying he thought some form of super league would be a good idea is post after post today saying so desperately why this Super League will go no where despite the fact that none of us know exactly what the proposed super league will be.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Dec 22, 2023 1:24 am

"as structured".   If it's a closed competition, it's dead.  I'm hoping it morphs into something that takes into consideration the culture, and sporting cultures, it is looking to attract teams from.

You cannot have teams that will automatically participate in the competition no matter how they perform.  It has to be an even playing field... but it doesn't have to include every single second-rate league.  It could only include teams from the top 6 teams based on a ranking system of leagues (like UEFA).  You can have the top 3 compete later while the bottom 3 need to go through an elimination round first. Just an example.

I'm eager to hear what it actually is.  UEFA and FIFA are a mess.

My point is that it better not be a closed system that makes the elite richer and more untouchable.  That will never work.
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Dec 22, 2023 1:02 pm

Champions League is the greatest competition of all time in any sport.

While I see the merits of this and I'd expect Sports to give his naturally informed views in terms of financial sides of it I prefer the status quo remaining the same, even if it is corrupt.

Cause ESL will just be another colour of it.
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Dec 22, 2023 1:04 pm

Find it even more odd any Real Madrid fan would support this given the UCL is their domain and given their astonishing record for it.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:08 pm

@arqui - the economics for UEFA are great to add more games. But is it for clubs? Need bigger squads. Curious to see if the club xtra cost to clubs is backed by more revenue for them. At first glance, no. UEFA is keeping most of it.

Also, clubs aren’t expanding squads enough to keep up with extra games.


Greed v greed is the way I see it.
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Post by halamadrid2 Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:36 pm

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Post by Pedram Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:41 pm

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