2021/22 EFL League "Pep Carabao" Cup & FA Cup Thread

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Post by danyjr Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:28 pm

I forgot it was January, the time Arsenal used to crash every season (when they were still a relevant club, that is).

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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:39 pm

danyjr wrote:I forgot it was January, the time Arsenal used to crash every season (when they were still a relevant club, that is).


Let's see if this continues tonight. Liverpool certainly sending out a surprisingly strong first XI


Teams

Behold today’s cast. Looks like Klopp views today as an opportunity he doesn’t want to let slip: he’s sent out his strongest available side. Arteta probably has too, with Martin Odegaard (Covid) and Sead Kolasinac (hamstring) joining their list of absentees.

Liverpool: Alisson; Alexander-Arnold, Matip, Van Dijk, Robertson; Fabinho, Henderson, Milner; Minamino, Firmino, Jota

Subs: Kelleher, Konaté, Gomez, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Tsimikas, Jones, Gordon, Williams, Morton

Arsenal: Ramsdale; Cedric, White, Gabriel, Tierney; Lokonga, Xhaka; Martinelli, Lacazette, Saka; Nketiah

Subs: Leno, Holding, Mari, Chambers, Tavares, Patino, Salah-Eddine, Hutchinson, Biereth

Referee: M Oliver

https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2022/jan/13/liverpool-v-arsenal-carabao-cup-semi-final-first-leg-live-score-updates
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:12 pm

Xhaka
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:12 pm

eh? why doesn't it say

XHAKA

?!
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Post by danyjr Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:13 pm

What a clown.
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Post by Lex Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:14 pm

I really, really, reeeeeally don't understand what goes through this fucking idiots head sometimes
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Post by Lex Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:14 pm

I'm done defending this clown.
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Post by danyjr Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:19 pm

Robertson sees the ball to be played so quickly and his deliveries are very accurate. A joy to watch, this guy.
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Post by Mamad Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:25 pm

Every time i try to watch Arsenal somebody gets sent off and ruins the game for me ffs.
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Post by danyjr Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:28 pm

2021/22 EFL League "Pep Carabao" Cup & FA Cup Thread - Page 2 Fartet10

Did I hear someone say Fartetaball?
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:30 pm

lmao glad im not watching.. hope we get trounced so that we can focus on the league... did we rest players for spurs ffsss????
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Post by Sina Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:41 pm

531 defensive block with Saka_Lokonga_Martinelli Midfield!!
Not like there is any other choice though
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Post by Helmer Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:18 pm

I hope Salah leaves the club, Mane and Firmino contacts will run out pretty soon. Important for us to save money in wages, player signing. Nice way to get relegated and I really hope we do. Pathetic cringeworthy behavior from the club management.

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Post by Sina Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:42 pm

Great effort by our Lads
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:45 pm

Helmer wrote:I hope Salah leaves the club, Mane and Firmino contacts will run out pretty soon. Important for us to save money in wages, player signing. Nice way to get relegated and I really hope we do. Pathetic cringeworthy behavior from the club management.

??? Why so much negativity

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Post by El Gunner Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:47 pm

Helmer wrote:I hope Salah leaves the club, Mane and Firmino contacts will run out pretty soon. Important for us to save money in wages, player signing. Nice way to get relegated and I really hope we do. Pathetic cringeworthy behavior from the club management.

did ya'll lose? Laughing
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Post by Helmer Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:55 pm

This shit thing is happening year after year. With the dominance and resources we had, we should have had at least 2 more trophies, came very close with 3 finals and missed title by just 1 point. With just 1 or 2 good signings, we could have converted at least 1 out of 4. This season I see the same thing happening again, looking at previous patterns.

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Post by silver Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:56 pm

Full credit to the team (no not your Xhaka) for that amazing defensive display. Got to also give credit for Arteta for changing the formation. Saka was immense.

Only thing is we are screwed for NLD.
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Post by danyjr Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:15 pm

Klopp got his tactics wrong IMHO, one man advantage for the best part of 70 minutes and yet Liverpool failed to threaten Arsenal's defence until the dying minutes.

The issue was trying to get everything through the middle against Arsenal's triple CB formation and not really having the player profiles to penetrate them that way. And they kept trying to do so with no success.

Playing right footed players on LW and left footed players on RW was adding to this problem because they were trying to cut in and face a very crowded central area.

Jota and Minamino should have switched sides, have the wingbacks bombing and crossing. The crosses on their own may not have worked so well but what crosses would have done is create chaos in an otherwise organised backline for second-ball opportunity. Against a team defending with 10 men it would have been the right thing to do but Liverpool insisted on passing the ball through the middle with a bunch of donkeys like Henderson and Minamino who lack the skill to do so. It's only until Neco Williams was brought in and put a few dangerous crosses in that we saw instant improvements in Liverpool's attacks. Alas, too little, too late.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:08 am

no need for in-depth analysis, i called it a few months back... Liverpool will be/are shit without Salah.
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Post by Thimmy Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:28 am

Highest spending clubs in the Premier League since last season. Man management brilliance, my ass Laughing The only thing that's ever constant in football, is that the clubs with the highest purchasing power and willingness to spend are at the top of the table. Team building is more important than anything else, and that's typically the product of a club's designated staff members working in conjunction with a manager's input. I would love to hear a good explanation behind why so many people believe transfers and player development are the sole work of a manager, rather than extreme exceptions to the rule.

2021/22 EFL League "Pep Carabao" Cup & FA Cup Thread - Page 2 Skjerm36

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Post by Lord Spencer Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:44 am

Thimmy wrote:Highest spending clubs in the Premier League since last season. Man management brilliance, my ass Laughing The only thing that's ever constant in football, is that the clubs with the highest purchasing power and willingness to spend are at the top of the table. Team building is more important than anything else, and that's typically the product of a club's designated staff members working in conjunction with a manager's input. I would love to hear a good explanation behind why so many people believe transfers and player development are the sole work of a manager, rather than extreme exceptions to the rule.

2021/22 EFL League "Pep Carabao" Cup & FA Cup Thread - Page 2 Skjerm36



What about a longer timespan? Other leagues?
Comparison between managers?

Take Man City for example. They have consistently been high spenders, but only became as dominant as they currently are with Pep.

Liverpool are not among the top 4 top spenders in the PL, but have consistently outperformed their expenditure with Klopp.

Everton and Man United are both huge spenders, but low performers. The same can be said about AC Milan in the last 10 years.

Of course, I think this is a combination of sport direction and management. But I am not sure where your confidence on the lack of managerial input is in relation to success.

Take Milan for example. Same players playing well with Gattuso, but failing to reach the next level due to some key tactical issues he couldn't find solutions for. Then completely disastrous with Giampolo next season, before stabilizing and improving massively with Pioli.

While I agree that the composition is key to be able to compete, an elite manager can be the difference between winning the league and missing the CL in a tight year. That being said, no manager would be able to win a league with a poorly constructed squad, but they could win cups with them if the players and the manager are good enough.
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Post by Thimmy Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm

Again, team building. I'm not going to do an in-depth research on this, covering all of the leagues and all of the managers when it likely isn't going to change anyone's opinion regarding the all encompassing, god given talent and influence of managers on how their teams perform. Feel free to do it if you want to, since you suggested it.

As for City, I believe it was very apparent that they had a lot of talented players when they went on their first spending spree, but the team building was obviously sub-par, with a lot of seemingly impulsive transfers, and they were hogging many of the top strikers at the time for no tangible reason other than to keep them away from rival teams. I imagine the arrival of Txiki Begiristain has had a great influence on how the team building of the club has evolved since then.

I'll refrain from talking about Liverpool. I don't want Kpop fans on my ass for not focusing only on the positive things. Man United's team building has, in my opinion, been absolutely tragic for about a decade now. It's not only about acquiring talent, you can't fit 11 players into the same squad if they're all used to playing in different positions, or are limited to certain styles of football. Drilling a team into a style of football that they're not already accustomed to or comfortable with, takes more time than any top club has the patience for.

For Everton, I can only assume that part of their issue is their lack of pulling power or attractiveness to players that possess the quality that would elevate the team. James had an instant impact when he went there, but that transfer was likely tied to him having played under Ancelotti at Real Madrid. I believe Richarlison was brought in by a former manager as well, and the currently injured, Dominic Calvert Lewin and Michael Keane were simply really good scouting/transfers by the club.

One could blame Rafa Benitez for their current slump these days, but I think it's more likely that injuries and lack of fitness in key players is the source of their issue. A lot of their players are rejects from other clubs, and although I don't watch Everton very often, I've noticed that many of them seem to be injury plagued.  

Lord Spencer wrote:While I agree that the composition is key to be able to compete, an elite manager can be the difference between winning the league and missing the CL in a tight year. That being said, no manager would be able to win a league with a poorly constructed squad, but they could win cups with them if the players and the manager are good enough.

I don't disagree with this. I disagree with the romanticism of managers that seems to be so incredibly common among pundits and fans, nowadays. It completely overshadows all of the things that are out of the manager's control at a club, and you mentioned time span in your post, yet I imagine whoever will be managing a matured Newcastle in the future (assuming they provide near unlimited funds for transfers, as in the case of modern day, Man City) will be considered some managerial legend without necessarily having more than one successful, smaller club on their CV.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:32 am

Gotta feel for frustated LFC fans, I do get the complain about missing out trophies just by little bit perhaps which could have been made up from 1-2 more top signings. I been saying wtf they doing with the likes of Minamino n old Milner etc., for so long? That just doesnt seem right for a club being one of the top in Europe? Razz

ANC they knew it was gonna hit them with no Salah n Mane, plus injuries, so this was all expected. OBviously no one can compete with MAn C financially, but cant help but feel LFC could be doing more in transfers?
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Post by Nishankly Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:30 pm

It's the red card, We have 0 goals in like 200 minutes with teams with 10 men this season. 0 goals after the red against Chelsea, United, Atletico twice, Leeds, Arsenal. If you get a red card against us, its an advantage for you lol
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Post by Nishankly Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:34 pm

danyjr wrote:Klopp got his tactics wrong IMHO, one man advantage for the best part of 70 minutes and yet Liverpool failed to threaten Arsenal's defence until the dying minutes.

The issue was trying to get everything through the middle against Arsenal's triple CB formation and not really having the player profiles to penetrate them that way. And they kept trying to do so with no success.

Playing right footed players on LW and left footed players on RW was adding to this problem because they were trying to cut in and face a very crowded central area.

Jota and Minamino should have switched sides, have the wingbacks bombing and crossing. The crosses on their own may not have worked so well but what crosses would have done is create chaos in an otherwise organised backline for second-ball opportunity. Against a team defending with 10 men it would have been the right thing to do but Liverpool insisted on passing the ball through the middle with a bunch of donkeys like Henderson and Minamino who lack the skill to do so. It's only until Neco Williams was brought in and put a few dangerous crosses in that we saw instant improvements in Liverpool's attacks. Alas, too little, too late.


The issue is that Klopp has not bought in any wingers and the only other guy who offers us width Origi is injured since a month. Jota, Firmino, Minamino play in the same area of the field regardless of playing them wide on paper, they will drift instinctively to the center and be way too close to each other, it made it extremely easy for Arsenal to defend, we offered no threat throughout the game.

We used Jones and Ox to force some width today and it worked against Brentford. Only Jota and Firmino were getting in the way of each other rather than having 3-4 players in the same area like against Arsenal unless we had the best midfielder at the club aka Thiago who would enable that type of close passing game to help those 5 center forwards but that fam is just unlucky with injuries.
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