Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi 2021 | Who is better?

El Gunner wrote:yea it's a pretty similar comparison, although only difference here is that Nadal wins in the H2H comparison

Agree to disagree. I don't think Nadal wins at all in the H2H.

To me, you take the super-specialty surfaces out, i.e. Wimbledon and Roland Garros, and then you compare the rest, which are neutral surfaces.

uhmm statistically he does

Considered one of the greatest-ever tennis rivalries, Federer and Nadal have played each other 40 times, with Nadal leading the overall head-to-head 24–16 and in finals 14–10. ... Federer leads on grass (3–1) and indoor hard court (5–1). Nadal leads on clay (14–2) and outdoor hard court (8–6).

El Gunner wrote:uhmm statistically he does

Considered one of the greatest-ever tennis rivalries, Federer and Nadal have played each other 40 times, with Nadal leading the overall head-to-head 24–16 and in finals 14–10. ... Federer leads on grass (3–1) and indoor hard court (5–1). Nadal leads on clay (14–2) and outdoor hard court (8–6).

Take clay and grass out. Because, frankly, those are specialties and each has a very large advantage on those.  Nobody can deny that Federer is the best grass player ever and Nadal the best clay player ever.  Not to mention that they've played each other 16 times on clay and only 4 times on grass, which would bias things towards Nadal in a significant way.

On the rest, Federer leads 11-9.

hypotheticals hypotheticals, no need to rewrite history, i agree Federer is the better player, but let Nadal have his flowers when come to the H2H... Federer is a really dominant indoor player too compared to all the other players to have played the game.

Nothing hypothetical about it.  Surface makes a HUGE difference in tennis...  especially when you're talking red clay and grass.  Always has been.

On hard courts or green clay (not red), you can win by attacking or defending.  So you're competing against a whole lot more players and H2H matchups are more honest assessments.

Djokovic is the forgotten man. He shouldn't be... what a player.

Yea, basically the goals stats by CR being better than Messi or similar arguement are mostly just brought or thought of by CR fans/Messi haters. We keep repeating it for so long now. Messi is the best, while CR has does well to come close at times, other times hes was off second

BarcaLearning wrote:Yea, basically the goals stats by CR being better than Messi or similar arguement are mostly just brought or thought of by CR fans/Messi haters. We keep repeating it for so long now. Messi is the best, while CR has does well to come close at times, other times hes was off second

Who’s we? People have different opinions and that’s completely okay. You need to grow up and stop taking pot shots at everyone you disagree with. It’s immature and rude.

Sports said it best. One thing overlooked was CR’s tendency to take tons of shots and force his style even when it wasn’t working. Once he worked with his limitations and played team ball is when he matched messi. This is when we won the CL 4 times
in 5 years. Before that, his decision making and selfishness were unbearable and cost us in big games. If he realized this sooner in his career I believe he would’ve been a much better player

sportsczy wrote:Nothing hypothetical about it.  Surface makes a HUGE difference in tennis...  especially when you're talking red clay and grass.  Always has been.

On hard courts or green clay (not red), you can win by attacking or defending.  So you're competing against a whole lot more players and H2H matchups are more honest assessments.

Djokovic is the forgotten man. He shouldn't be... what a player.

you just completely ignored "Federer being the most dominant indoor player" part just as i thought.

but let's stop derailing the thread, i agree the amount of times they've played on clay significantly skews the H2H towards Nadal. Yet, that's how the universe wanted it and the history books will record it.