Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi 2021 | Who is better?

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Post by smithjames Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:36 am

Both are Very nice Football player. Who is your Favorite?

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Post by El Gunner Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:13 am

we've had this debate on here for the past 10 years of GL... general consensus is Messi is an alien who was put on earth to dazzle us with his footballing genius, one of a kind, and complete heresy to compare anyone else to him... While Ronaldo has his fair share of fanboys on here who admire his hardwork, determination, goalscoring prowess and clutchness.
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Post by Myesyats Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:00 am

There is no doubt that Messi is better overall
Not only is he further ahead in goalscoring, specially if you consider conversion rate (Ronaldo takes way more shots), but taking into account assists, key passes, chances created, passing accuracy, dribbling etc. the gap is much wider than it may seem at first glance.

They'd compliment each other very well if they were to be on the same team. You could say Ronaldo had to work harder for his success but is he more hard-working? It's not like Messi himself is a couch potato
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Post by Firenze Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:34 am

for me, Messi in his prime is someone I expect to never be surpassed, but he's fallen off while Ronaldo is still at the top.
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Post by Casciavit Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:21 pm

Messi is superior as a talent. I know United fans will annoy everyone by trying to force the Ronaldo> narrative because they have their boy back. The same boy who used the club as a stepping stone for Madrid and the same boy who only joined them because no one else wanted to pay his wages and a transfer fee. Laughing

The fact is as a talent Messi is superior. Messi is a 3D attacking player. He genuinely makes a case for being the greatest scorer, greatest dribbler, and greatest creator ever. Ronaldo only makes a case for being the greatest scorer ever.

Ronaldo is more complete in the scoring sense because he has more headed and weak foot goals, but Messi still has a better scoring ratio. Even then Messi is more complete as a player because he has way more range to his game.

Messi was better ten years ago and he's still better now. It's even more glaring these days as Ronaldo has primarily turned into a poacher in the past five years. Whenever he does try more technical things it looks awkward and comical these days.

That being said if I was given ten players and had to pick a forward to complete my team there are instances where I might pick Ronaldo instead. If the rest of the attacking players I have want the ball at their feet I would pick Ronaldo since he's an outlet and Messi isn't. So really it's dependent on who you have in your team when picking one over the other. I think it's even more pronounced nowadays as Messi needs to be catered to a system more due to his lack of workrate while Ronaldo is more of a plug and play kind of player.

Now people might bring up stuff like mentality. Messi gets criticism for putting his head down when the going gets tough while Ronaldo seems to rise up to the occasion more. Again maybe that's true, but the more I think of it the only difference between those perceptions are based on who their supporting cast was. When Ronaldo played with a less talented team in the early 2010s he was accused of being a choker. When he played for a super team with creators all around him he suddenly turned into footballs Michael Jordan. The moment he leaves those conditions he loses against Porto, Ajax, and Lyon in consecutive CL years when he was signed to win the CL. Likewise with Messi when he played for a super team catered to him he was getting GOAT shouts at 23. The moment Barca's spine started aging and they started replacing their stars with players who don't fit with Messi's style he started getting poor mentality accusations too. Football isn't basketball. There's too many players on the field for one player to be this clutch Jordan-esque figure. That's why when I hear people bring up clutchness and mentality in this debate I kind of laugh because they only got those shouts when they played with good players who put them in those positions to have those comeback moments. Even then when you think about it in the biggest moments like CL or international finals they weren't the ones who normally scored the defining goal, but it was their supporting cast who came through instead.

Ronaldo knows that and that's why he left Juve. Messi got a lot of attention from the Copa America and moving to PSG because that signalled him moving to a super team where his chances of winning a CL and more Ballon d'ors became higher. The narrative for the final years of their career will be important. That's why Ronaldo wanted to join City because he knew he would've been the missing piece for them, but the move didn't go through. He settled going back to United to get some of that PL hype even though the chances of him winning anything with United are lower. However if he does win something important with them his credibility increases unlike him winning stuff with Juve. Neville and Ferdinand and the rest of the United pundit team will be doing mad PR for him if that's the case.
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Post by Casciavit Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:30 pm

What really impresses me about them is their longevity though. For players in the GOAT shouts I think Pele and Di Stefano usually had that argument for them as they had a decade long run on the top. Messi and Ronaldo have been top 3 players since 2007, and top two since 2008. That's a 15 year run on top which is insane. How many players in history were considered the best in the world at the ages of 34 and 36 respectively? If Messi wins the Ballon d'or this year he would be the oldest to win it. The fact they've been doing it at this level for so long really is astonishing to me.
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Post by Warrior Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:38 pm

I vote for Messiiiiiuu
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Post by El Gunner Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:38 pm

i agree to a certain extent to what you are saying Cas, but i do believe Ronaldo has a genuine knack for popping out of nowhere at crucial times in a match to get a goal. He's done it for Portugal too at times even if the games aren't as important, and Portugal never had a squad as good as mid 2010s Madrid. I think there is something to appreciate about that quality.

and yea Ronaldo has dropped his head too countless times. Also in their head-to-heads it's really no competition between the two either, Messi has upstaged him 90% of the time.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:42 pm

Cristiano has achieved alot but by far his most impressive achievement is still, and I suspect will forever be, the fact he has convinced such a large number of people he comparable to Messi's level. In fact there is even a minority who think he is better.

There is really no debate to be had in my book. I thought at 19 Messi was already better than Cristiano at whatever age he was then. This was back when Messi was having injury problems and Cristiano was at Utd. I had already seen more than enough to make the distinction obvious.
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Post by farfan Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:42 pm

Tbf, longevity seems to have become the norm rather than the outlier Laughing Just look at Ibra, Thiago Silva, Chiellini, Giroud, and even aging players like Benzema who seem to be hitting his peak. Laughing

Better training methods, advances in medicine and nutrition, and ...ahem...high-end PEDs have made it possible for players to retain a high level well into their late 30s (and possibly beyond?). Player performance no longer falls off a cliff at a certain age as it did just a decade ago.

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Post by Casciavit Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:49 pm

I don't know EG I feel not many of them were scruff of the neck kind of moments against bigger teams like they are made out to be.

A lot of the time he had the better team going for him and a lot of them were penalties. Obviously, there are outliers like the match against Spain. His 2017 CL campaign is probably the most decisive ever, but again Madrid were the best in the world at the time.

There's a reason he never made it past of R16 in the WC during his prime years. There's a reason the one time they win the Euros it was the flukiest run up ever and his clutch moments came up against Wales or something. There's a reason he couldn't lead Juve past Ajax, Lyon, and Porto.

Now I do think he's the most clutch of this era relatively, but I don't think the clutchness factor is big enough to seperate him and Messi as players. It's because like I said a lot of the times they got hype for being clutch was when they played for super teams. When you took that away from them they started getting accused of being chokers was the point I was trying to make there.


Last edited by Casciavit on Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Casciavit Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:54 pm

@farfan wrote:Tbf, longevity seems to have become the norm rather than the outlier Laughing Just look at Ibra, Thiago Silva, Chiellini, Giroud, and even aging players like Benzema who seem to be hitting his peak. Laughing

Better training methods, advances in medicine and nutrition, and ...ahem...high-end PEDs have made it possible for players to retain a high level well into their late 30s (and possibly beyond?).  Player performance no longer falls off a cliff at a certain age as it did just a decade ago.



Yeah players have extended peaks now. FIFA culture had you thinking once someone turned 30 they were finished. Laughing

Keane said this about Foden once. He said before games he'd buy random donairs while Foden has a kitchen staff at his house at the age of 20. If Foden maintains his professionalism and he's lucky with injuries he'll probably play until his late 30s at a high level.

Though the main point about longevity isn't that they're playing at a high level but that they're still the very best in the world.
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Post by Casciavit Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:00 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Cristiano has achieved alot but by far his most impressive achievement is still, and I suspect will forever be, the fact he has convinced such a large number of people he comparable to Messi's level. In fact there is even a minority who think he is better.

There is really no debate to be had in my book. I thought at 19 Messi was already better than Cristiano at whatever age he was then. This was back when Messi was having injury problems and Cristiano was at Utd. I had already seen more than enough to make the distinction obvious.


When did it occur to you that Messi was the best in the world?

For me it was somewhere around 07/08. Even though Ronaldo was scoring 40 goals a season and played for the best team in the world while Messi was always injured I just thought he played way more rational than he did.

It was no surprise the moment the injuries stopped he ended up getting that acknowledgement as well.
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:54 pm

These arguments are getting old and boring. 10 years ago, we were saying they weren’t as good as past all time legends; de Stefano, Pele, etc. Now no-one can deny that both of them are not only amongst the all time greats, they likely are at the top of the list. To me, Messi has more talent, but Ronaldo more than makes up for it with his physical fitness and his grit or determination. Suffice it to say who is better is debatable!

On the comment about Ronaldo leaving Man U for money, lol. Tell me any other 18 or 19 year old not leaving leaving for money! Fact is there wasn’t just an on field competition between the two, there was another competition for highest salary each demanding annually for the highest salary. It went on to such a ridiculous extent that they salary load took up the bulk of their club’s operating income. One club recognized that one player taking up bulk of operating income was not sustainable and let him go off to greener pastures while the other one literally went bankrupt!
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Post by Casciavit Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:33 pm

United was always a stepping stone for him. He always dreamt of playing for Madrid. United made him a superstar, but he still insisted on not playing his prime there. I guess there wasn't enough prestige and not enough money.

Ronaldo literally called himself a slave when SAF didn't want to let him go in 2008. Laughing
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Post by Chad31 Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Messi and it's by a wide margin too, way more talented than cr, and is a much better overall player, better in every aspect that mattered for an attacker, cr had to force the best player convo into being a numbers game, who has the most goal is the best and not the best overall player or performer is the best.

that why cr always played like shit in most games cause all he need to do is score a brace or hattrick by the end, he gets a free pass for the terrible individual matches and the team not winning with all the talent plus money spent, cr always placed his own personal glory above the club and teammates at madrid, that why blatter was right to call messi a leader and cr a commander, cause he shit as a leader and he doesn't mind losing titles as long as he gets his numbers and golden boots, cr goal numbers for madrid were always empty to me cause you literally have to enslave the entire team to do nothing but pass you the ball, as I said let the attack been more equal with the shots more fairly divided cr is barely scoring 40 goals a season, this was happening under rafa and cr complained he wasn't being used correctly, when what he meant was the others in the attack weren't sacrificing for him enough.

I have seen messi come under alot of critcsim for walking and missing pens, etc, but he still does 10x of cr does when he has the ball, messi focus on winning the game and it doesn't have to be him scoring all the goals either, sometimes he cool with just passing and creating unless the team is real danger of losing he goes for it, I have always admire that approach cause that how football should be played, not praising a guy for kicking the ball in frustration and losing on purpose cause he wants to win games for his own personal glory, that shit determination imo and nothing praise worthy, this is why fanboys are annoying cause all they did was twist cr selfish glory hunting ways, into something inspiring, while players like benzema who play for the team best interests gets treated like a moron for years, now look at doesn't need to use the cr method of doing things to carry madrid, he does it like messi just goes with the flow of the game and do what's needed at the right time.

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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:50 pm

@Casciavit wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:Cristiano has achieved alot but by far his most impressive achievement is still, and I suspect will forever be, the fact he has convinced such a large number of people he comparable to Messi's level. In fact there is even a minority who think he is better.

There is really no debate to be had in my book. I thought at 19 Messi was already better than Cristiano at whatever age he was then. This was back when Messi was having injury problems and Cristiano was at Utd. I had already seen more than enough to make the distinction obvious.


When did it occur to you that Messi was the best in the world?

For me it was somewhere around 07/08. Even though Ronaldo was scoring 40 goals a season and played for the best team in the world while Messi was always injured I just thought he played way more rational than he did.

It was no surprise the moment the injuries stopped he ended up getting that acknowledgement as well.

I keep getting mixed up on this one, I cant exactly remember the year and some other circumstances. My time line could be off and could need correcting.

I think my first thought was that time he got injured vs Chelsea, he was just a boy, maybe 18? That Chelsea team were defensively dominant, it took all kinds of magical bs to create anything against them. He showed a level of play you just dont see.

DBZ fan? This was what Goku saw from Gohan in the time chamber Laughing

But I think that year he never returned because of the injury, it was Ronaldinho's team and we went on to win the CL vs Arsenal.

I think the next season, we was basically finished because Ronaldinho was no longer the same and it was immediately clear. We brought Thuram and Zambrotta but the team was really finished. Messi still had injuries but it was clear he was something different. Maybe actually, I thought he was the best in the game we lost to Man Utd with the Scholes winner. I believe he had missed 4-6 weeks in the lead up to the game, played maybe 20-30 minutes the La Liga game before and he came and dominated in a losing effort while his apparent rival Cristiano did absolutely nothing.

In short, I thought he was the best when there was no way to prove it. Before he was the leader of the team who won anything.

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Post by Myesyats Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:36 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Suffice it to say who is better is debatable!

@The Franchise wrote:Cristiano has achieved alot but by far his most impressive achievement is still, and I suspect will forever be, the fact he has convinced such a large number of people he comparable to Messi's level.


hmm
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Post by BarcaLearning Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:04 pm

Loool, well said by Cas and Dani I think... Obviously its Messi, anyone who thinks otherwise either doesnt know or watch football enough, or just focus on other aspects (most often goals only for example). As much as I dislike CR, I respect him for the fact that he has pushed Messi so often all the way and came close to him in various times during their long careers. Talent wise CR is no where near the best in comparison to many great players, but his goal scoring wise its for all the see, and physical abilities are the best.
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Post by Mamad Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:41 pm

Messi is way better. Ronaldo is a finisher. Messi is everything except for you know defending and such. although in his younger days he was a hard worker off the ball too.
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Post by titosantill Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:00 am

messi...obviously as a madrid fan i like cristiano; best player in madrid's history alongside di stefano. but ive got eyes, messi's better. they both gave fans a great i dont know 15 plus years or so. feel like football owes us for some of those clasico moments, i miss the mourinho and pep beefs lol
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:21 am

Hmm. I’m gonna have to disagree with a lot of these posts. It’s way more close then people would like to admit. I’ll say this, you cannot talk about messi’s on the ball work and magic and just ignore Ronaldo’s off the ball work, as well as his aerial ability and clutch factor in big games. Both are equally important.
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Post by Clutch Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:11 am

Messi is clearly better but Ronaldo is not some peasant like some people are suggesting in this thread Laughing

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Post by Doc Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:11 am

Considering the title has 2021 in it, I'll take Ronaldo over Messi.

If one is asking who is the better footballer, well, aesthetically, it's Messi. Just a naturally gifted footballer, real generational talent. I, however, disagree with Dani's take on what he wrote in that Ronaldo reached Messi's level. Not in terms of sheer talent, that one is something that Messi was born with but you don't accomplish as much as another guy being at a lower level.

N.B not saying Ronaldo is basically a better version of Lucas and Inzaghi as he is a very talented footballer. Just, Messi always had that skill that you knew was always going to be grand.
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:06 am

I wonder how you lot would say of a comparison of Maradona and Pele? I say Pele by a mile, but you Messi fans will likely go for the drugie
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