2020 US presidential election

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:35 pm

@elitedam wrote:Your English is great. I wanna know what are the progressive policies that we keep harping about that are too extreme.

Some popular talking points that are considered 'extreme' by the American public at large (not necessarily by me):

Free childcare
Free education
"Free" most things tbh
Forgiving all student loans
Green new deal
Decriminalizing all drugs
Reparations
Nationalizing industries
Banning automatic weapons
Wealth tax

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Post by elitedam Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:53 pm

Sure, but it seemed like he was talking about the progressives here in GL. If he wasn't, my bad.
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Post by Myesyats Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:01 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@elitedam wrote:Your English is great. I wanna know what are the progressive policies that we keep harping about that are too extreme.

Some popular talking points that are considered 'extreme' by the American public at large (not necessarily by me):

Free childcare
Free education
"Free" most things tbh
Forgiving all student loans
Green new deal
Decriminalizing all drugs
Reparations
Nationalizing industries
Banning automatic weapons
Wealth tax

None of this is extreme. Should be the norm in a developed country and can be done

For example Jacinda Ardern banned automatic assault rifles within like a month in NZ. Simple as that

I think we need more women in government. The best run countries have women at the forefront right now; New Zealand, Finland, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, Slovakia, Germany, Austria, Iceland.

I also think women are less prone to corruption and not as power hungry. I don't have studies to back it up though lol

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Post by El Gunner Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:17 am

@futbol_bill wrote:?? Is it my English. Biden is speaking live right now and is essentially saying the same thing I just did. If you don’t understand my English, try listening to Biden.

no it's your shoehorning of the terms "socialism" and "communism" without offering any definitive differences based on how you understand them that has elitedam confused
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Post by McLewis Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:01 am

I mean wanting the stuff BC listed makes me not only a Progressive, but according to Sports, a radical extremist as well.

Wanting this stuff makes me either a Maoist, Stalinist communist or a Hugo Chavez-supporting socialist....I dunno, I can never keep up with the ridiculously ignorant labels. I'll wear both badges with pride. I really really REALLY don't care.

Why? Because the working poor deserve better. That's literally all I'm saying. Those politicians along with Corporations, CEOs and the mega rich do not care about them beyond the labor and money they can extract from them from high school to retirement, for as little impact to their bottom line and their portfolios as possible. That is what we never hear about when it comes to capitalism. It's a machine designed to chew people up thoroughly and spit them out as used up, discarded waste when there's nothing left to extract. They've just successfully re-packaged it as "retirement".

The working poor have been fucked over time and time again and in everyway imaginable by the powers that be. So many are so poorly educated, failed by our criminally and purposely neglected educational system, they don't even know who they're actually electing to represent them. They can't see through the slick slogans, brutal attack ads and soaring rhetoric because they lack the critical thinking skills to truly pick people who will advocate for them and see to their needs. And this is exactly what the patrician elite want. They want their electorate dumb and misinformed. They want those voters to only receive the information they need to keep getting re-elected.

The Democrats do this through subtle misdirection and verbal sleight of hand whereas the Republicans don't give 2 blue fucks and will let the world know it. Both sides will kiss babies and eat fried oreos with a grin for that photo op and in private absolutely wash the plebian stink off them because that is what they needed to do to earn votes. Neither party actually cares, they've just mastered the art of convincing the middle, which totters between indecisive and just plain old afraid to get off the goddamn fence, which direction to swing their votes in and. And they pass this off as "compromise". This is not what got us to where we are now. That is not real compromise. 1 side always loses more or gains less than the other and for some mystifying reason, both pretend all things are even. THAT is not compromise.

And who is the side that always comes out having lost the most or gained the least?

The. fucking. working. poor.

And that's where we're stuck. With 2 parties who have done a thorough job of convincing utterly stupid moderates that they care enough about their lesser, fellow man to not need more political parties, which would diminish their formidable power. And these beyond-reproach, venerated-to-the-heavens moderates, who can absolutely do no wrong because they see "both sides" get to decide our future. And what do they always decide? That 1 of the 2 parties that does not care about the working poor needs to remain in power. If these moderates are so thoughtful, why haven't they decided that maybe more political parties are needed?

The only "compromise" I want to see from Democrats and Republicans is a mutual relinquishing of this 2-party clusterfuck of a political system so more parties, that actually represent the working poor, can have an actual seat at the table of government. That's what I want. We are not held hostage by 2 parties. We are held hostage by the middle.


Last edited by McLewis on Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by CBarca Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:17 am

The only "compromise" I want to see from Democrats and Republicans is a mutual relinquishing of this 2-party clusterfuck of a political system so more parties, that actually represent the working poor, can have an actual seat at the table of government. That's what I want. We are not held hostage by 2 parties. We are held hostage by the middle.

Yep. I'm constantly furious with Dems and Republicans but like I've preached here how many times, I don't think it really matters. The parties do what gets them power.

Institutions need to change or nothing changes.
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Post by McLewis Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:44 am

@CBarca wrote:
The only "compromise" I want to see from Democrats and Republicans is a mutual relinquishing of this 2-party clusterfuck of a political system so more parties, that actually represent the working poor, can have an actual seat at the table of government. That's what I want. We are not held hostage by 2 parties. We are held hostage by the middle.

Yep. I'm constantly furious with Dems and Republicans but like I've preached here how many times, I don't think it really matters. The parties do what gets them power.

Institutions need to change or nothing changes.


What I keep struggling with is the only institution that can change these institutions are the very same institutions benefiting from the status quo. And so there is no incentive, on their part, to change. They have manipulated and molded the system to benefit them indefinitely. Breaking such a deadlock...I just don't know how it happens. My best guess it that it has to come from the local level and permeate to the state level, which can ultimately effect the federal level. There's such a nefarious air to how this system is designed. How Byzantine it is. I keep coming back to the fact that it's intentional. They want it to be hard to dislodge them from power. They want it to be hard to reform these institutions. They want it to be hard to educate those who really need it so that they are smarter in who they vote for. It's nefarious and insidious.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:39 pm

Imo it can be done with a few steps:

1. Change ti ranked choice voting nationwide. This eliminates the "wasted vote" argument and allows smaller parties to gain traction.

2. Pass anti gerry meandering laws and mandate that districts are in accordance to some set of objective, easily auditable methods. (personally I like the shortest split line method).

3. Campaign finance reform. End the legislators reliance on lobbying funds.

4. Implement term limits. Ensure there is always new blood in Washington rather than the same old faces making all the decisions.

5. Debates should be organized by an independent organization rather than a bi-party one, like it was before the 90s.

But like you said the ones that would lose the most from this are the ones in power so it won't happen unless the people demand it.
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Post by futbol_bill Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:06 pm

Thank you BC for the list. McLewis, I’m not against you wanting those changes, I just saying it is unrealistic to expect those types of changes in the near term especially when you have only a slim majority of voters. What needs to happen first is to have well more than 50% of voters agree with your agenda.

And I don’t believe Sports is calling you extreme. He is saying to force feed your agenda on America when your agenda is a minority is doomed to fail.
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Post by futbol_bill Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:10 pm

As to the party / voter reforms, America has a whole lot of rebuilding to do (as per the priority list Biden spoke about yesterday) first and with the damage / chaos done by Trump, it will take several years to fix.

And the biggest need at this moment in time is to stop / prevent an outright civil war.
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Post by Babun Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:39 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:As to the party / voter reforms, America has a whole lot of rebuilding to do (as per the priority list Biden spoke about yesterday) first and with the damage / chaos done by Trump, it will take several years to fix.

And the biggest need at this moment in time is to stop / prevent an outright civil war.
Fully agree, also don't discount outside influences. China and Russia are interested in keeping the US weak and divided so expect them to fire up extreme left and right from background. Both extremes should be watched closely.
@McLewis wrote:I mean wanting the stuff BC listed makes me not only a Progressive, but according to Sports, a radical extremist as well.

Wanting this stuff makes me either a Maoist, Stalinist communist or a Hugo Chavez-supporting socialist....I dunno, I can never keep up with the ridiculously ignorant labels. I'll wear both badges with pride. I really really REALLY don't care.

Why? Because the working poor deserve better. That's literally all I'm saying. Those politicians along with Corporations, CEOs and the mega rich do not care about them beyond the labor and money they can extract from them from high school to retirement, for as little impact to their bottom line and their portfolios as possible. That is what we never hear about when it comes to capitalism. It's a machine designed to chew people up thoroughly and spit them out as used up, discarded waste when there's nothing left to extract. They've just successfully re-packaged it as "retirement".

The working poor have been fucked over time and time again and in everyway imaginable by the powers that be. So many are so poorly educated, failed by our criminally and purposely neglected educational system, they don't even know who they're actually electing to represent them. They can't see through the slick slogans, brutal attack ads and soaring rhetoric because they lack the critical thinking skills to truly pick people who will advocate for them and see to their needs. And this is exactly what the patrician elite want. They want their electorate dumb and misinformed. They want those voters to only receive the information they need to keep getting re-elected.

The Democrats do this through subtle misdirection and verbal sleight of hand whereas the Republicans don't give 2 blue fucks and will let the world know it. Both sides will kiss babies and eat fried oreos with a grin for that photo op and in private absolutely wash the plebian stink off them because that is what they needed to do to earn votes. Neither party actually cares, they've just mastered the art of convincing the middle, which totters between indecisive and just plain old afraid to get off the goddamn fence, which direction to swing their votes in and. And they pass this off as "compromise". This is not what got us to where we are now. That is not real compromise. 1 side always loses more or gains less than the other and for some mystifying reason, both pretend all things are even. THAT is not compromise.

And who is the side that always comes out having lost the most or gained the least?

The. fucking. working. poor.

And that's where we're stuck. With 2 parties who have done a thorough job of convincing utterly stupid moderates that they care enough about their lesser, fellow man to not need more political parties, which would diminish their formidable power. And these beyond-reproach, venerated-to-the-heavens moderates, who can absolutely do no wrong because they see "both sides" get to decide our future. And what do they always decide? That 1 of the 2 parties that does not care about the working poor needs to remain in power. If these moderates are so thoughtful, why haven't they decided that maybe more political parties are needed?

The only "compromise" I want to see from Democrats and Republicans is a mutual relinquishing of this 2-party clusterfuck of a political system so more parties, that actually represent the working poor, can have an actual seat at the table of government. That's what I want. We are not held hostage by 2 parties. We are held hostage by the middle.

Sounds right in an ideal world but is far from reality. Imagine, in a family of 5 three of them decide for the other two how THEY should live without any consulting and discarding any dialogue or discussion. Point is you can't discard almost half of the US, to get far Biden has to convince the rest of the population his reforms would better THEIR lives as well. I mean why would someone cooperate if there's nothing in for them? Do you work for free?
What you ask for is in its core dictatorship of the majourity, not better at all than what the republicans pulled off. And as the posters said change needs time.
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Post by Myesyats Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:15 pm

rofl the ignorance of these people is astounding

2020 US presidential election - Page 14 0010011-1

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Post by Myesyats Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:28 pm

Doubts over rule of law in US if Trump isnt prosecuted. Not a great look and bad for further relations with EU. Many Americans/drumpf voters living in their bubble unable to pinpoint any other country on the map other than US and occasionally China, have no idea how deeply foreign relations have been damaged by the man whose name shall not be spoken anymore.

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Post by sportsczy Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:31 pm

McLewis...  having the government arbitrarily redistribute wealth "for the working poor" is the definition of socialism.  Reminds me of this quote:

"The land can never pass to labour, that is, to the poor working man, because land has to be paid for with money. But the poor never have any money to spare. The land can go only to the rich, moneyed peasants, to capital, to those people against whom the rural poor must fight in alliance with the urban workers."

Once you ask for guaranteed jobs of equal pay regardless of ability without the pressure of losing it, then you're a bonafide communist. You're almost there.

Good luck with that.
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Post by McLewis Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:39 am

@futbol_bill wrote:Thank you BC for the list. McLewis, I’m not against you wanting those changes, I just saying it is unrealistic to expect those types of changes in the near term especially when you have only a slim majority of voters. What needs to happen first is to have well more than 50% of voters agree with your agenda.

And I don’t believe Sports is calling you extreme. He is saying to force feed your agenda on America when your agenda is a minority is doomed to fail.

I challenge this belief that progressive ideas are only supported by a slim majority. Let's see how that looks with Medicare for all.

As of April 2020, it had the support of 69% of register voters that were polled. Let's break it down:

- It had equal support among males and females at 69%, more support from young voters (75% for 18-34 and 83% for 35-49) and less support from older voters (65% for 50-65 and 49% for 65+).
- 97% of black voters polled support, while 62% of whites support it and 78% of Hispanics support it.
- 72% of college-educated voters support it to 68% of non-college-educated voters.
- It is supported by 73% of voters making less than $75K a year to 63% by those making more than $75K a year.
- Democrats support it 88% to Republican's 46%, but for me the real clincher is 68% of Independents supporting it.

There are most stats at the source, found here - Medicare For All Poll - The Hill

So my takeaway from the above is that a progressive policy (which truly isn't progressive to begin with) actualy enjoys the support of far more than a simple "slim majority" of this country. The people who need it most support it while the people who need it least (or think they do) don't support it. It tells you everything you need to know.

Why is this so hard to pass when a clear and decisive majority of the country wants it? The pandemic has made this support even more pronounced since this poll was released. What possible sense does it make for Biden back away from it when nearly 90% of his own party and 97% of its base (black voters) want it? This does not add up. This whole "enacting progressive policies will alienate the middle" schtick has worn thin. The numbers do not bear this logic out. And so it's an excuse not to progress us forward, but to keep us firmly where we are now: mired in the status quo. I'm not going to pretend this is the case for other progressive policies like the Green New Deal or defunding police, but M4A is a the one that really feels like the most doable and yet Moderates and Centrists are finding excuses not to do it, even as those excuses are continually debunked. How do you compromise with a side that doesn't want something for the sake of just not wanting it?

@Babun wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:As to the party / voter reforms, America has a whole lot of rebuilding to do (as per the priority list Biden spoke about yesterday) first and with the damage / chaos done by Trump, it will take several years to fix.

And the biggest need at this moment in time is to stop / prevent an outright civil war.
Fully agree, also don't discount outside influences. China and Russia are interested in keeping the US weak and divided so expect them to fire up extreme left and right from background. Both extremes should be watched closely.
@McLewis wrote:I mean wanting the stuff BC listed makes me not only a Progressive, but according to Sports, a radical extremist as well.

Wanting this stuff makes me either a Maoist, Stalinist communist or a Hugo Chavez-supporting socialist....I dunno, I can never keep up with the ridiculously ignorant labels. I'll wear both badges with pride. I really really REALLY don't care.

Why? Because the working poor deserve better. That's literally all I'm saying. Those politicians along with Corporations, CEOs and the mega rich do not care about them beyond the labor and money they can extract from them from high school to retirement, for as little impact to their bottom line and their portfolios as possible. That is what we never hear about when it comes to capitalism. It's a machine designed to chew people up thoroughly and spit them out as used up, discarded waste when there's nothing left to extract. They've just successfully re-packaged it as "retirement".

The working poor have been fucked over time and time again and in everyway imaginable by the powers that be. So many are so poorly educated, failed by our criminally and purposely neglected educational system, they don't even know who they're actually electing to represent them. They can't see through the slick slogans, brutal attack ads and soaring rhetoric because they lack the critical thinking skills to truly pick people who will advocate for them and see to their needs. And this is exactly what the patrician elite want. They want their electorate dumb and misinformed. They want those voters to only receive the information they need to keep getting re-elected.

The Democrats do this through subtle misdirection and verbal sleight of hand whereas the Republicans don't give 2 blue fucks and will let the world know it. Both sides will kiss babies and eat fried oreos with a grin for that photo op and in private absolutely wash the plebian stink off them because that is what they needed to do to earn votes. Neither party actually cares, they've just mastered the art of convincing the middle, which totters between indecisive and just plain old afraid to get off the goddamn fence, which direction to swing their votes in and. And they pass this off as "compromise". This is not what got us to where we are now. That is not real compromise. 1 side always loses more or gains less than the other and for some mystifying reason, both pretend all things are even. THAT is not compromise.

And who is the side that always comes out having lost the most or gained the least?

The. fucking. working. poor.

And that's where we're stuck. With 2 parties who have done a thorough job of convincing utterly stupid moderates that they care enough about their lesser, fellow man to not need more political parties, which would diminish their formidable power. And these beyond-reproach, venerated-to-the-heavens moderates, who can absolutely do no wrong because they see "both sides" get to decide our future. And what do they always decide? That 1 of the 2 parties that does not care about the working poor needs to remain in power. If these moderates are so thoughtful, why haven't they decided that maybe more political parties are needed?

The only "compromise" I want to see from Democrats and Republicans is a mutual relinquishing of this 2-party clusterfuck of a political system so more parties, that actually represent the working poor, can have an actual seat at the table of government. That's what I want. We are not held hostage by 2 parties. We are held hostage by the middle.

Sounds right in an ideal world but is far from reality. Imagine, in a family of 5 three of them decide for the other two how THEY should live without any consulting and discarding any dialogue or discussion. Point is you can't discard almost half of the US, to get far Biden has to convince the rest of the population his reforms would better THEIR lives as well. I mean why would someone cooperate if there's nothing in for them? Do you work for free?
What you ask for is in its core dictatorship of the majourity, not better at all than what the republicans pulled off. And as the posters said change needs time.

Progressive ideas are not pie-in-the-sky ideas. If they can work elsewhere (and they do), they can work here. There is just no political will to see it done. The "it's too hard" brigade have done a thorough job of convincing us it's impossible....in the land where we constantly hear everything and anything is possible. Just another excuse to throw on the pile of other excuses.

For me, it's incredible how the half that apparently can't get discarded did just that to the rest of us 4 years ago and not a peep was said about it. Why should they get a say in how we govern ourselves when they've proven they cannot lead us? Why should we listen to them when they have so clearly gotten it all wrong? What have they said or done to demonstrate their input is valuable to how we govern ourselves? I find this line of thought truly mystifying.

I am not asking for a dictatorship of the majority. What I'm asking for is a rejection of the dictatorship of the minority. Republican policies have dominated this country's direction despite Republicans being the political and cultural minority. How is this possible? Why has it been tolerated and allowed? The coasts may decide this country's cultural identity, but the middle of the country decides literally everything else, despite having far less people living there. How is that fair?

I do not ask for rapid change. I know Biden's term is transitional. I've said as much already in this thread. Frankly, it will take the older generations (Silent and Boomers mostly) dying out (naturally, of course) to see the types of shifts I'm looking for. And that's if the people (like me) haven't become our parents (or grandparents) by the time we are in the position they were in when they held the power and influence in politics.


Last edited by McLewis on Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by McLewis Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:43 am

@sportsczy wrote:McLewis...  having the government arbitrarily redistribute wealth "for the working poor" is the definition of socialism.  Reminds me of this quote:

"The land can never pass to labour, that is, to the poor working man, because land has to be paid for with money. But the poor never have any money to spare. The land can go only to the rich, moneyed peasants, to capital, to those people against whom the rural poor must fight in alliance with the urban workers."

Once you ask for guaranteed jobs of equal pay regardless of ability without the pressure of losing it, then you're a bonafide communist.  You're almost there.

Good luck with that.

You're damn right it's socialism. Did you think I would deny it? I fully embrace it.

Let's not pretend it's not already here. It is. You know it and I know it. I want the resources behind those existing, time-honored, American socialist services that we all know and love altered so the playing field is actually even, providing the working poor a tangible way out of their plight that does not involve putting themselves into a deep, dark hole of student loan debt just to get ahead. That's a pretty fucked up path to prosperity and it's being hammered into the brains of impressionable kids relentlessly throughout high school that this is the only path forward.

A good education is invaluable and too many of the working poor are denied it simply because of where they live and/or who their local politicians are. Far too many have had to forgo a good education because they had to make a choice between that and putting food on the table for their family. I do not deny that this is not impossible. Plenty of people find a way to do both. But is that really the path to prosperity that was envisioned? I don't think so. Why don't the wealthy want their workers more educated? Because they're easier to control when they're not. Keeping them wired to "just getting by" and "paycheck-to-paycheck" is far more efficient and lucrative than having to deal with a worker who is educated enough to be able to play 4D chess and achieve the ever elusive prosperity of their bosses and supposed betters.

And yet the irony that gets me is that it's those same wealthy elite who deign to show their magnanimity to the poor plebs below them by sharing the tiniest bit of their wealth with them in the form of paying off their loan debt, medical bills or buying them a house or a new car, as if this solves the core problem when it's merely treating the symptom. What the fuck kind of system is built around the working poor having to wait and hope some rich asshole decides they want to help out them out? It's beyond offensive that we call this "charity". It's the manifestation of either the vanity guilt of the wealthy.

The working poor do not want hand outs. They want a fair chance at the same prosperity without a million obstacles in their way that those who have already achieved it, didn't have. That does not require a redistribution of wealth and if anyone believes that, they truly do not want to see the income gap close. They're just looking for excuses to keep it wide open.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:49 am

I applaud McLewis for at least trying to get Americans to see "socialism" as just a descriptor, not a slur.
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:18 am

theres no hope for some, ive been trying to do that for the past year
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Post by Babun Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:35 am

@McLewis wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:McLewis...  having the government arbitrarily redistribute wealth "for the working poor" is the definition of socialism.  Reminds me of this quote:

"The land can never pass to labour, that is, to the poor working man, because land has to be paid for with money. But the poor never have any money to spare. The land can go only to the rich, moneyed peasants, to capital, to those people against whom the rural poor must fight in alliance with the urban workers."

Once you ask for guaranteed jobs of equal pay regardless of ability without the pressure of losing it, then you're a bonafide communist.  You're almost there.

Good luck with that.

You're damn right it's socialism. Did you think I would deny it? I fully embrace it.

Let's not pretend it's not already here. It is. You know it and I know it. I want the resources behind those existing, time-honored, American socialist services that we all know and love altered so the playing field is actually even, providing the working poor a tangible way out of their plight that does not involve putting themselves into a deep, dark hole of student loan debt just to get ahead. That's a pretty fucked up path to prosperity and it's being hammered into the brains of impressionable kids relentlessly throughout high school that this is the only path forward.

A good education is invaluable and too many of the working poor are denied it simply because of where they live and/or who their local politicians are. Far too many have had to forgo a good education because they had to make a choice between that and putting food on the table for their family. I do not deny that this is not impossible. Plenty of people find a way to do both. But is that really the path to prosperity that was envisioned? I don't think so. Why don't the wealthy want their workers more educated? Because they're easier to control when they're not. Keeping them wired to "just getting by" and "paycheck-to-paycheck" is far more efficient and lucrative than having to deal with a worker who is educated enough to be able to play 4D chess and achieve the ever elusive prosperity of their bosses and supposed betters.

And yet the irony that gets me is that it's those same wealthy elite who deign to show their magnanimity to the poor plebs below them by sharing the tiniest bit of their wealth with them in the form of paying off their loan debt, medical bills or buying them a house or a new car, as if this solves the core problem when it's merely treating the symptom. What the fuck kind of system is built around the working poor having to wait and hope some rich asshole decides they want to help out them out? It's beyond offensive that we call this "charity". It's the manifestation of either the vanity guilt of the wealthy.

The working poor do not want hand outs. They want a fair chance at the same prosperity without a million obstacles in their way that those who have already achieved it, didn't have. That does not require a redistribution of wealth and if anyone believes that, they truly do not want to see the income gap close. They're just looking for excuses to keep it wide open.

There's nothing socialist about general education and a basic healthcare system. Wealth redistribution is another story though. The rich will just flee the country.
Higher tax + reduction of military costs (US'etat for defence in time of peace is overblown) can make it happen. My opinion is take it step for step, free general education and a basic healthcare should be the top priority. Once those are achieved, move on to the more progressive ideas. Wanting to change everything at once is... delusional.
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Post by Myesyats Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:40 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I suggest we stop focusing on things that keep us apart and look for places where we can come together, for the good of the US.  I know emotions are raw and there's a lust for blood.  But let's try to resist that destructive urge.

I think this is total BS with all due respect. How are honest and righteous Americans supposed to overlook the fact that the GOP and everyone involved are absolute scum, insurrectionists  and terrorists? Many republican leaders should face charges for this and nobody should seek to understand and continue dialogue with criminals. Romney is like the only decent republican leader left. Theres no dialogue with one person as much as I respect a man with principles and dignity.

Weasels like Pence and Mcconell are distancing themselves now from Trump because they know the fight is lost but one spark and they're leaders of an oppressive regime again. It's that close, just one day can make a difference and they'd both happily rule if the government were to be overthrown.

You absolutely can't give them room to rise in such a way again and many institutions need to be reformed starting with electoral college although I don't think if Dems even need that anymore since Texas with a whooping 38 electoral votes seals the deal if it turns blue and it's close, its been gradually leaning more and more blue in the last 20 years and this election it was razor thin. If Republicans lose TX, they're pretty much done for. And while we're on the subject of Texas, that snake Ted Cruz studied law at Harvard. He fully knows the election was fair and square, and at this point the GOP is 100% a cult and not even a party anymore.

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Post by McLewis Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:27 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:I applaud McLewis for at least trying to get Americans to see "socialism" as just a descriptor, not a slur.


I keep getting told by the middle that having to explain socialism (or any progressive policy) means it's not worth having. That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard and it's an indictment of our super poor educational system. Republicans exploit this ruthlessly by keeping their messaging extremely dumbed down and simple. It's an insult to masses and they've been convinced it's to save them time and worry. Laughable stuff.

We Americans have the attention span of gnats. We make every decision based on slogans and clever catch phrases. We like short and succinct because we don't have to think as much and don't think critically at all. This bears out to devastating effect in our politics.
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:11 pm

The dumbest shit going on in America is the idiots who believe in all the Trump BS. And that these folks are mainly from rural area! Maybe your point of educational system is right on point?
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Post by Myesyats Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:24 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:The dumbest shit going on in America is the idiots who believe in all the Trump BS. And that these folks are mainly from rural area! Maybe your point of educational system is right on point?

He promised to drain the swamp but drowned in it himself. Instead of investing in youth, Americans believed a 74 year old senior citizen is going to expose corruption while being heavily corrupted himself. Sadly he has undeservedly become part of history now, the only hope is that he ends up impeached and in prison.

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Post by Freeza Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:51 pm

@Myesyats wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:The dumbest shit going on in America is the idiots who believe in all the Trump BS. And that these folks are mainly from rural area! Maybe your point of educational system is right on point?

He promised to drain the swamp but drowned in it himself. Instead of investing in youth, Americans believed a 74 year old senior citizen is going to expose corruption while being heavily corrupted himself. Sadly he has undeservedly become part of history now, the only hope is that he ends up impeached and in prison.


he is the swamp
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Post by McLewis Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:22 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:The dumbest shit going on in America is the idiots who believe in all the Trump BS. And that these folks are mainly from rural area! Maybe your point of educational system is right on point?


Had we a better educational system, Trump would've been laughed out of his own building after he came down that elevator.

Republicans rail against our efforts to defund police departments so they can be rebuilt from scratch, with an eye towards actually protecting us instead of themselves, but they have had absolutely no issues defunding our public education systems for decades. Our education systems are just as important as our policing system, yet one gets billions of dollars in funding every year and the other barely scrapes by, using decades old textbooks, eliminating helpful after school programs and subsisting on sports rather than academics. One union is so powerful, it single-handedly has the ability to override court decisions while the other union routinely has to strike to make its voice heard and to secure the funding it needs for the system it supports to survive.

We are not a nation of critical thinkers specifically because Republicans have made sure we're not. Look at how they derided the intelligentsia, scholars and academics in this country. They feel insulted by and deride intelligence because it lays bear their own lack of it. They value brawn over brains, working harder over working smarter.

And it all comes back to a severe lack of quality in our public educational systems.
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Post by Myesyats Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:31 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:The dumbest shit going on in America is the idiots who believe in all the Trump BS. And that these folks are mainly from rural area! Maybe your point of educational system is right on point?

He promised to drain the swamp but drowned in it himself. Instead of investing in youth, Americans believed a 74 year old senior citizen is going to expose corruption while being heavily corrupted himself. Sadly he has undeservedly become part of history now, the only hope is that he ends up impeached and in prison.


he is the swamp

Yes. He drowned in his own vomit Laughing

I wonder how his mental state will deteriorate now that he's been banned off social media. I'm loving every minute of it.

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