Ligue 1 20/21

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Post by sportsczy Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:37 pm

He's just extremely predictable. Also, not fast enough strangely... he can't get past people.

If you can't just dribble past people anymore, then you need to move without the ball and anticipate a lot more. He's not doing that at all.

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Post by Casciavit Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:35 pm

Watched the game yesterday.

Galtier played this narrow 4-4-2 where he completely ceded the wing areas to defend compactly in the middle.

That was a disadvantage to PSG because they didn't have any runners to stretch the field. Their front 3 was Draxler, Icardi, and Messi. Not sure why Mbappe didn't come on sooner when it was obvious what was going on.

PSG played their worst technical midfield and defense. Not a single defender could progress the ball. Herrera and Danilo were flanking Verratti.

So with no runner and no width, PSG's only method of chance creation was Verratti and Messi combining. Verratti, the DM was playing so high up the pitch to make things happen.

Now those two actually have amazing chemistry. The problem is Poch realizes Verratti is leaving a hole in the middle so he brings on Paredes for Herrera so Paredes plays centrally. Then instead of having Messi and Verratti combine on the right flank he plays Verratti on the left leaving Messi isolated.

I kid you not Messi the RW completely ceded his position 15 min in the second half and was playing as a fake LW just to combine with Verratti. rofl

I also thought Messi thought Wijnaldum was a bozo but I wonder what he says about Nuno Mendes behind closed doors. PSG's only way of taking advantage of the narrow defense was Messi switching the ball to Nuno Mendes Alba style.

The only difference is every time Nuno Mendes got the ball he either passed it back or he crossed it instead of giving Messi an open pass on the cutback. Messi visibly told him off. I'm sure someone will make a video of all the times he threw his arm at him last night.

I think Messi's been better individually than he was at the start of the season. The problem is due to PSG's dire midfield he has to drop way deep to get the ball and when he does get it he has narrow parked buses to progress through.

So to create space he has to dribble past them. He can dribble past the first man, but he struggles to get past the second man. Different reasons for that. Ligue 1 midfields are more compact and physical than La Liga midfielders. Another reason is that in La Liga when he'd get past the first man, he'd be tugged on by him, so when the second man got the ball they often called a foul for the previous play. French referees rarely call those as fouls. Combine that with his own decreased explosiveness and you'll realize him creating seperation on his own becomes more difficult.

You want your best players closer to the opposition goal not further. There's a reason all his open play goals have come from him starting the play halfway across the pitch. PSG have no automatisms whatsoever their only way of scoring is by brute forcing 1-2s in the middle between their best players. There's no actual patterns on the pitch. That means the best players have to play hero ball until the donkeys ruin the play. PSG has been the worst performing team as their games are AWFUL to watch. It's just sideways passing until a forward plays hero ball and creates space.

I don't know how Pochettino hasn't been sacked yet. He doesn't try anything new. No one has improved. The team looks garbage. They'll probably get put away by Madrid and he'll get the sack then. They defend with 7 off the ball, they're static on the ball, and they just have no real cohesion.

Messi has 1 Ligue 1 goal in what 11 games? Mbappe only has 10 Ligue 1 goals this season. Normally he'd have 20+ already. Even Neymar's stats have taken a nose dive since Poch joined whenever he has played.

The only way for PSG to look good is if Ramos, Verratti, and MNM all play. The issue is 3/5 are always injured. Ramos is the only defender who can pass the ball. His ability to switch the ball to the opposite flank helps create space. Verratti is their only midfielder who can play under pressure and link up with the attackers. The attackers all serve their own role. Mbappe the runner, and then Messi and Neymar bring offensive creativity.

The problem offensively with them is that two of them are 10s and have to play as wingers and one is a winger who has to play as a striker. Their biggest issue is off the ball. Messi defending as a winger is a lost cause, so he'll drop next to Mbappe with the donkey RCM playing as a RM off the ball. This is how Barca played off the ball for years.

The issue is that on the other side, Neymar won't run back all the time to make it a midfield 4. He doesn't have the legs for it and ego probably plays a role too. So what ends up happening is they defend with 7 players in 2022. rofl

Kroos is going to have a field day switching the ball to Neymar's flank. Madrid are my favourites. Even if PSG get through because that front 3 can win a game whenever due to their individual quality, there's still no way Poch flukes a CL with them.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:04 pm

@Casci... they overplayed Mbappe in the first half of the season because literally everyone was always injured and they needed him.  Honestly, he's the only one that has any speed or off-the-ball runs.  Everyone else stands around.  I honestly think PSG wouldn't be in the top 3 in Ligue 1 if Mbappe was injured.

Forget the 10 goals... he's had to create. Mbappe has 9 assists in half a season. 19 goals and 16 assists overall. No point in staying central and trying to score all the time when you have a midfield and fullbacks like that. He needed to set the table and score.

Anyhow, he now has muscle fatigue in his left hamstring.  So they don't want to risk it before the Madrid ties.
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Post by Casciavit Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:46 pm

He's definetly stepped up by showing more range to his game this season. His creativity is underrated. He's not so much of a final passer in terms of through balls, but his creating is different.

His link up play in small spaces and his crossing are both very good. He also pulls off those outside the boot passes and crosses. He still hasn't phased out stepovers from his game either. When Mbappe came on to the scene he was much more safer with what he did on the ball. Given he's a Ronaldo fanboy I thought he'd focus in on scoring at the expense of maybe some other aspects to his game. I thought he would represent the new generation of forwards who are stats obsessed because they grew up watching Messi and Ronaldo.

Seems like playing with technicians like Neymar, Benz, and Messi has rubbed off on him. He's definetly valuing creating chances more. I once read an interview where he spoke about wanting to increase his assist numbers last year. It seems like he's more focused on becoming a complete attacking threat rather than just a scoring outlet.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:11 am

And you're right... PSG are a shitty team. Really are. Fullbacks are donkeys. Other than Verratti, midfielders are donkeys. Kimpembe is a donkey. Icardi is a donkey.

Heck I even think Poche is a donkey.

Just a team full of donkeys. They literally won half their games because of last minute individual brilliance. I remember 2 games total in Ligue 1 that i felt PSG looked dominant. The others were either even or, frankly, they were outlplayed.

Madrid should win this one assuming health.
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Post by Harmonica Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:40 am

https://www.reddit.com/r/psg/comments/shwh05/herrera_off_the_ball_movement/

Just seen this. rofl
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Post by Myesyats Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:44 am

No way rofl rofl

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Post by BarcaLearning Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:44 pm

Tried to read all of your post Cas its so damn long Razz But also just to add once Hakimi n Gana is back PSG should be much better in addition to MNM of cos... not sure if Ramos would partner Marquinhos in the long run, but they seem to be better on the ball than Kimpembe? Also think Mendes is a decent LB otherwise Bernat would be the first choice it seems but hes always out.

Anyway, PSG should be much better, but there is little time left to lift the teams level in order to play Real. If they do it should be great. Would be a shame if PSG dont get themselves ready as a team in time n get beat due to that...
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:46 pm

sportsczy wrote:He's just extremely predictable. Also, not fast enough strangely... he can't get past people.

If you can't just dribble past people anymore, then you need to move without the ball and anticipate a lot more. He's not doing that at all.


He just doesnt do much period.

You'd think cause he's slower now it'll be more creativity but even that its more tricky combinations but doesn't result in much unless he combines with Neymar or Verratti. Hugely disappointing.
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:55 pm

Sounds like all the pre season bold hyped statements of ‘Dream Team’ affraid have fizzled out, except for Harmonica of course.
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Post by Casciavit Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:09 pm

Arquitecto wrote:
sportsczy wrote:He's just extremely predictable.  Also, not fast enough strangely... he can't get past people.

If you can't just dribble past people anymore, then you need to move without the ball and anticipate a lot more.  He's not doing that at all.


He just doesnt do much period.

You'd think cause he's slower now it'll be more creativity but even that its more tricky combinations but doesn't result in much unless he combines with Neymar or Verratti. Hugely disappointing.


This is the problem when someone who doesn’t watch the game comments.

How do you define doesn’t do much? Against Nice it wasn’t a question of effort. Every time he received the ball was near the centre circle. Their back 7 was Donarruma, Mendes, Kimpembe, Kehrer, Dagba, Herrera, Verratti, and Danilo. Ahead of him was Draxler and Icardi.

Who was going to get the ball to him aside from Verrati? Issue is he has to start the play from the centre circle in these cases and finishing those same plays becomes impossible when you have to deal with your own physical decline, shit tactics, donkey teammates, zero attacking patterns, parked buses, physical defending and french refereeing.

I have never seen Messi play in the left half space as much as he did then just to get involved and get more touches. What’s the expectation? Is 34 year old Messi supposed to make runs behind the defensive line in hoof and run situations like Mbappe when he doesn’t have the legs for it? He isn’t going to chill in the penalty box because he can’t compete for loose balls in those situations anymore.

He’s a traditional #10 who starts the attacking play and tries to end it with an edge of the box action. The closer you have him to the edge of the box the better, but that’s impossible with current PSG due to injuries, shit depth and shit tactics. So he has to start plays from the centre circle and getting to his finishing areas has become a problem due to the reasons I listed above.

Don’t believe any of the he doesn’t care for PSG nonsense. It’s just lazy analysis based on results instead of actually seeing what happens on the pitch. Even if he scored 4-5 goals because his finishing has been somewhat meh I’d still say the same thing.


Last edited by Casciavit on Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Casciavit Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:18 pm



This comp accurately reflects what I wrote about.
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Post by Casciavit Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:26 pm

sportsczy wrote:And you're right...  PSG are a shitty team.  Really are.  Fullbacks are donkeys.  Other than Verratti, midfielders are donkeys.  Kimpembe is a donkey.  Icardi is a donkey.

Heck I even think Poche is a donkey.

Just a team full of donkeys.  They literally won half their games because of last minute individual brilliance.  I remember 2 games total in Ligue 1 that i felt PSG looked dominant.  The others were either even or, frankly, they were outlplayed.

Madrid should win this one assuming health.


I just don’t understand why he is so fixated on using the 4-3-3. The fullbacks PSG got made their name as wing backs. The CB’s will have better passing angles playing in a back 3. Maybe off the ball it’ll be better if he decides to make Mbappe play as a RW and let Messi play false 9. Neymar might track back more if Mbappe tracks back seriously since Messi tracking back is a lost cause. Also if they defend in a 5-4-1 off the ball they’ll defend more in the half spaces and less on the wings making countering easier.

But nope nothing. Just the same 433. Messi hugs the touchline until the ball reaches the halfway point where he drops deep to collect it and tries to link up with Mbappe and Neymar until the donkey players ruin it. Then when they inevitably lose the ball because there’s no attacking patterns and it’s just forced 1-2s they defend in a 4-3-0-0-3 and get torched on the counter.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:19 pm

Just watching half of that above video its clear the problem with that game, no outlet, n Nice just crowded out the space around him. PSG basically just had Verratti who could work with him to create so it was easy for Nice to defend, not surprised it ended 0-0. We all know how teams limit Messi either through limiting the space or just fouling him if he dribbles.

Once players are back like Mbappe, Hakimi, Di Maria, Bernat etc. he will have more runners stretching oppositions. Also Gana should help with that midfield instead of scrubs like Paredes or Danilo was are just destroyers that cannot link with with Messi going forward at all. I think a MF three of Verratti/Gana/Herrara or Di Maria is PSGs best. Barca at least had Busquets/Rakitic/De Jong/Alba, etc. who could link with Messi. Not saying they will be world beaters but would be much better.
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:40 pm

Casciavit wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:
sportsczy wrote:He's just extremely predictable.  Also, not fast enough strangely... he can't get past people.

If you can't just dribble past people anymore, then you need to move without the ball and anticipate a lot more.  He's not doing that at all.


He just doesnt do much period.

You'd think cause he's slower now it'll be more creativity but even that its more tricky combinations but doesn't result in much unless he combines with Neymar or Verratti. Hugely disappointing.


This is the problem when someone who doesn’t watch the game comments.

How do you define doesn’t do much? Against Nice it wasn’t a question of effort. Every time he received the ball was near the centre circle. Their back 7 was Donarruma, Mendes, Kimpembe, Kehrer, Dagba, Herrera, Verratti, and Danilo. Ahead of him was Draxler and Icardi.

Who was going to get the ball to him aside from Verrati? Issue is he has to start the play from the centre circle in these cases and finishing those same plays becomes impossible when you have to deal with your own physical decline, shit tactics, donkey teammates, zero attacking patterns, parked buses, physical defending and french refereeing.

I have never seen Messi play in the left half space as much as he did then just to get involved and get more touches. What’s the expectation? Is 34 year old Messi supposed to make runs behind the defensive line in hoof and run situations like Mbappe when he doesn’t have the legs for it? He isn’t going to chill in the penalty box because he can’t compete for loose balls in those situations anymore.

He’s a traditional #10 who starts the attacking play and tries to end it with an edge of the box action. The closer you have him to the edge of the box the better, but that’s impossible with current PSG due to injuries, shit depth and shit tactics. So he has to start plays from the centre circle and getting to his finishing areas has become a problem due to the reasons I listed above.

Don’t believe any of the he doesn’t care for PSG nonsense. It’s just lazy analysis based on results instead of actually seeing what happens on the pitch. Even if he scored 4-5 goals because his finishing has been somewhat meh I’d still say the same thing.



I can you can assume I dont watch the games and only base it on his pathetic goal return, but that isnt what I base it on nor have I explained what I am basing his relatively unassuming performances on.

Fine he isnt scoring as a rather poor system relying on individual chemistry and collective combinations wont bring it out of him but he isnt even creative as much. He frequently sacrifices his positions to the expense of others just to combine with someone whom he does possess it with but it comes in bursts and as said usually doesnt end up in much.

Messi I did expect would evolve his game and not reliant on what made him Messi but he has had a stark decline that hasn't been akin to someone Ryan Giggs who adapted his game and as Sports said, he is predictable currently.

You can make the excuses above for him as the truest one is Poch, who quite frankly has come out to be tactically dull and unimaginative along with a boring midfield bar Verratti but individually so he isnt performing to expectations. Of course not to expectations but even standalone its just plain underwhelming.

The team isnt obligated to build themselves around him is it wise to do either.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:55 pm

Yeah i mean you can't blame the manager for 1 goal in Ligue 1 all season and marginal (at best) impact overall.

When you only play in 1 system since you were a little kid... just one...  you develop no ability to adapt.  There is no mental or muscle memory there.  He doesn't know what to do because he has no experience doing anything else.

I still think we will see moments of brilliance here and there because it's Messi.  But unless he fundamentally changes his approach to things, he's never going to make it in Ligue 1.  Regardless of the other players, he does have Mbappe, Verratti, Di Maria etc.  These aren't exactly chumps.  Di Maria was able to adapt.  Neymar was great his first year (before he lost his mind).

Not saying Ligue 1 is a great league.  But it is a difficult one for forwards.  You rarely see 30 goals in a season.  I think Mbappe, Cavani and Ibra were the only ones since Papin in 1990; and before Papin, you had to go to Bianchi in 1978.  You know what all these guys have in common?  Physical phenoms, whether it's speed, stamina and/or strength.  Finesse players don't survive very long.

I just don't think this is the right league for Messi.
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Post by Found Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:20 am

Amazing, Messi singlehandedly making Ligue 1 respected, meanwhile Zlatan Ibrahimovic proving once and for all that Serie A is dusted. UEFA needs to change its champions league slots immediately
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:25 am

sportsczy wrote:Yeah i mean you can't blame the manager for 1 goal in Ligue 1 all season and marginal (at best) impact overall.

When you only play in 1 system since you were a little kid... just one...  you develop no ability to adapt.  There is no mental or muscle memory there.  He doesn't know what to do because he has no experience doing anything else.

I still think we will see moments of brilliance here and there because it's Messi.  But unless he fundamentally changes his approach to things, he's never going to make it in Ligue 1.  Regardless of the other players, he does have Mbappe, Verratti, Di Maria etc.  These aren't exactly chumps.  Di Maria was able to adapt.  Neymar was great his first year (before he lost his mind).

Not saying Ligue 1 is a great league.  But it is a difficult one for forwards.  You rarely see 30 goals in a season.  I think Mbappe, Cavani and Ibra were the only ones since Papin in 1990; and before Papin, you had to go to Bianchi in 1978.  You know what all these guys have in common?  Physical phenoms, whether it's speed, stamina and/or strength.  Finesse players don't survive very long.

I just don't think this is the right league for Messi.


Ligue 1 is notoriously hard to score in as even in the Champions League you dont see French teams get blown out like some do.

Of course he has his flashes of brilliance but it isnt hard to agree that he simply has been underwhelming. We can blame Poch but by that logic Mbappe is even being played incorrectly. Messi simply has not aged his game the way you'd expect a superstar like him was supposed to. Minor tactical changes should elevate his game but where he is failing is mostly down to him and wont improve till he adapts, Id say.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:13 am

Lewa and Argui got just scared, insane game from Messi against the reigning champions.
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Post by M99 Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:23 am

Shame, was hoping to use this pic.

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Post by BarcaLearning Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:59 pm

Strange game, PSG were just soso, but simply having Mbappe n Hakimi back means Messi has to runners to play to, instead of none Razz Mendes on the left continues to look decent. Danilo scored 2 but hes pretty much just a meat shield DM type who can pass side ways lol. Verratti is amazing, wins balls, plays it well, etc. Messi scores n hits the bar AGAIN amazingly. But Lille were just very bad. So much for the one season wonder league winners? Gifted PSG like 3 goals n just means it was a practice match...

More importantly PSG more prepared for the CL tie which everyone will need to play much better to beat Real... Di Maria went off but didnt look serious luckily.
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:03 pm

What a borefest vs Rennes, Mbappe injury time winner from Messi assist right at the end though... Rennes really knwo how to contain PSG, they are the only team to beat them this season. But they got greedy in the end trying to snatch a win, instead let M&M beat them to it Very Happy

Not looking in great form as a team still though for the upcoming Real match. Although Mbappe n Verratti is. Messi has really lost a lot of pace now, hopefully its just him being lazy n he will turn it on vs Real Razz

Di Maria, Hakimi n Bernat is back, so just apart from Gueye who should be back also for Real? Personnel wise PSG should be full apart from Neymar.
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Post by sportsczy Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:26 am

352 with Messi/Mbappe up front, Marquinhos or Ramos as the "libero" and Hakimi Mendes bombing is the truth. Put Verratti and Di Maria behind Messi/Mbappe... and a DM (have plenty of those).

If Ramos isn't healthy, Kehrer/Marquinhos/Kimpembe as back 3. With Ramos, Marquinhos/Ramos/Kimpembe.

It really isn't that hard. Let the wingbacks play as wingbacks.
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:27 pm

sportsczy wrote:352 with Messi/Mbappe up front, Marquinhos or Ramos as the "libero" and Hakimi Mendes bombing is the truth. Put Verratti and Di Maria behind Messi/Mbappe... and a DM (have plenty of those).

If Ramos isn't healthy, Kehrer/Marquinhos/Kimpembe as back 3. With Ramos, Marquinhos/Ramos/Kimpembe.

It really isn't that hard. Let the wingbacks play as wingbacks.


Ramos did a pseudo-version of that under Carletto and he was terrible at it.

He gives the impression that he is a ball playing CB given he has close control and an obvious eye for the goal but in fact has terrible anticipation, passing and the vision for it.

Plus he doesn't have the legs for it by now.
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Ligue 1 20/21 - Page 20 Empty Re: Ligue 1 20/21

Post by BarcaLearning Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:28 am

Entertaining game vs Nantes despite the obvious loss. MNM with a nice goal, although Neymar missed a bad pen lol... that NAntes GK was good, also impressed by their winger Simon. They constantly troubles PSG's relatively old back line. Also 2 VAR interventions that showed how good it can be, otherwise would have been a red n help PSG come back prolly.

Players wise Wijnaldum still looks poor fit for PSG, just out of sync with everybody? Hakimi is so important to PSG otherwise its like that whole side is gone. Verratti turning into top form n linking with MNM is a pleasure to watch, prime Iniesta + the combative side of his game also is pretty amazing. Messi has lost all his speed but still got amazing technique n passing, but looks like his goal scoring will be like this in the future, much less, better focus on being a 10...


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Ligue 1 20/21 - Page 20 Empty Re: Ligue 1 20/21

Post by sportsczy Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:31 am

Honestly BC, if it wasn't Messi, he'd be benched.  Doesn't defend at all, no running without the ball, no defense, etc...  Mbappe of course and also Neymar are clearly better.  

They can't defend with 7 players.  So they need Neymar/Mbappe and another forward that will do the work in an 8 man defense.

Messi/Neymar/Mbappe will never work.

That's why IMO, Cavani and Di Maria were so critical to playing next to Neymar and Mbappe. Those two, besides being brilliant on the attack, did the job defensively.

Wijnaldum/Gueye was a big problem too frankly.
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