2019/2020 Premier League Discussion: Chapter IV

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Post by Firenze on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:02 pm

Ole fares quite well against big teams. It's the shit on a stick teams that he looks lost against. A lot of that is down to us not being able to penetrate teams.

Pretty obvious Thimmy is being sarcastic

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Post by Unique on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:03 pm

its great being a liverpool fan knowing we have a top 4 spot wrapped up in february cheers

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Post by Thimmy on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:04 pm

@Nishankly wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:That was a legitimate offside call. Makes you wonder if it would be better if they added a few inches to the rule, though. Only part of his foot was over the line.


Wait what?

You cannot bend the rules, if a scoring part of your body is ahead of the defender, its offside. We've suffered (while we've scored to win unlike others) and other teams and suffered and complained about the rule.

If your foot is over the line the goal or you even touched the ball with your hand intentionally, the goal will be ruled out whether its (Mane against United (only game we drew) or Firmino against Villa), it doesn't matter whether you are 20th or 1st, the rules apply and the goal gets cancelled.


Well, that's why I say that it makes you wonder about adding a few inches to the rule. People are already complaining about the surgical accuracy of some of these VAR offsides, as if the refs choose to be accurate for the sole purpose of favoring a particular team.. or something along those lines. I'm sure there'd be just as many complaints if they had modified the rule. Conspiracy theories make the game more exciting to analyze, I guess.

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Post by El Gunner on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:05 pm

i dont understand all the fuzz
All VAR decisions were correct tonight

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Post by Firenze on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:06 pm

@El Gunner wrote:i dont understand all the fuzz
All VAR decisions were correct tonight


I disagree, the Chelsea goal should have been ruled out but a penalty should be given to them - or let the play run and in which case they score.

Maguire and G-Rude rule out were correct
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Post by Nishankly on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:06 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:That was a legitimate offside call. Makes you wonder if it would be better if they added a few inches to the rule, though. Only part of his foot was over the line.


Wait what?

You cannot bend the rules, if a scoring part of your body is ahead of the defender, its offside. We've suffered (while we've scored to win unlike others) and other teams and suffered and complained about the rule.

If your foot is over the line the goal or you even touched the ball with your hand intentionally, the goal will be ruled out whether its (Mane against United (only game we drew) or Firmino against Villa), it doesn't matter whether you are 20th or 1st, the rules apply and the goal gets cancelled.


Well, that's why I say that it makes you wonder about adding a few inches to the rule. People are already complaining about the surgical accuracy of some of these VAR offsides, as if the refs choose to be accurate for the sole purpose of favoring a particular team.. or something along those lines. I'm sure there'd be just as many complaints if they had modified the rule. Conspiracy theories make the game more exciting to analyze, I guess.


Nope, not true.

The grey area is overturning penalties, checking fouls during goals or overruling goals.

When it comes to offside, VAR is 1000% consistent to the FIFA rules.
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Post by Thimmy on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:14 pm

@danyjr wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:No one gets tactically outsmarted by Ole. City, Pool, Arsenal, Chelsea.. all inferior teams to Man United, who's only saving grace is a pool of talent stacked so high you can't see the top of it Molenation
Not sure if serious hmm


I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't being serious. United have 3 young players with potential in AWB, James and Rashford. If they had been the United of Old, I don't think any of them would've been starters. James definitely wouldn't have been one. The rest of the team are solid at best, in my opinion. There's Pogba, of course, but he's one of the least consistent players I've ever witnessed, and I don't get the impression that he cares much about the club. The Jury's out on Bruno Fernandes. I try not to comment on Ole much, since everything I say about him gets boiled down to bias, but as much as he may be flawed in one way or another, I identify the team's overall lack of talent as the primary reason why they're struggling for consistency, and I don't believe that's going to change unless they find a long-term coach and get him players that suit the way that he wants to play. If that coach is Pochettino or whoever, super awesome. Still gotta ship out the Fellainis and Matic' that was bought two coaches ago.

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Post by Thimmy on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:19 pm

@Nishankly wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:


Wait what?

You cannot bend the rules, if a scoring part of your body is ahead of the defender, its offside. We've suffered (while we've scored to win unlike others) and other teams and suffered and complained about the rule.

If your foot is over the line the goal or you even touched the ball with your hand intentionally, the goal will be ruled out whether its (Mane against United (only game we drew) or Firmino against Villa), it doesn't matter whether you are 20th or 1st, the rules apply and the goal gets cancelled.


Well, that's why I say that it makes you wonder about adding a few inches to the rule. People are already complaining about the surgical accuracy of some of these VAR offsides, as if the refs choose to be accurate for the sole purpose of favoring a particular team.. or something along those lines. I'm sure there'd be just as many complaints if they had modified the rule. Conspiracy theories make the game more exciting to analyze, I guess.


Nope, not true.

The grey area is overturning penalties, checking fouls during goals or overruling goals.

When it comes to offside, VAR is 1000% consistent to the FIFA rules.


What is not true? I was confused as to what your point was in the last post, and I'm still confused. Are you saying that people haven't been complaining about VAR offsides?

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Post by Nishankly on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:26 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:


Well, that's why I say that it makes you wonder about adding a few inches to the rule. People are already complaining about the surgical accuracy of some of these VAR offsides, as if the refs choose to be accurate for the sole purpose of favoring a particular team.. or something along those lines. I'm sure there'd be just as many complaints if they had modified the rule. Conspiracy theories make the game more exciting to analyze, I guess.


Nope, not true.

The grey area is overturning penalties, checking fouls during goals or overruling goals.

When it comes to offside, VAR is 1000% consistent to the FIFA rules.


What is not true? I was confused as to what your point was in the last post, and I'm still confused. Are you saying that people haven't been complaining about VAR offsides?


People complaining about offside are distracted by their internal thoughts. On paper, if a scoring body by the definition of football is offside, it will be given offside and it has, find me one example where the offside has been given when a legitimate body part is onside, the fact you feel an armpit can't score, doesn't count. So for offside, there is no problem for VAR. Either you change the offside a law where the attackers get 15% leverage on the distance.

That's my point, other than that as I said: The grey area is overturning penalties, checking fouls during goals or overruling goals.

This is the problem with VAR because tech goes out of the picture and its again a human deciding it.
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Post by Thimmy on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:35 pm

I agree with all of that, which is why I was confused when you said "wait, what?" and "that's not true". The 15% leverage on the distance was basically the only argument I made, and I only mentioned it as a suggestion for the people who keep complaining that they are robbed when VAR rules their goals out for offside through "unreasonable precision" - this is not something I feel strongly about, but I do think it's a bit too much when they stop the play to zoom in on a situation that's possibly a quarter of an inch offside by an elbow.

Like I've mentioned before, VAR is far from perfect in it's current state, but I also never think fans will accept it to be perfect. Even precise calls can seem harsh and unreasonable when emotions are involved.


Last edited by Thimmy on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Nishankly on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:36 pm

@Thimmy wrote:I agree with all of that, which is why I was confused when you said "wait, what?" and "that's not true". The 15% leverage on the distance was basically the only argument I made, and I only mentioned it as a suggestion for the people who keep complaining that they are robbed when VAR rules their goals out for offside through "unreasonable precision" - this is not something I feel strongly about, but I do think it's a bit too much when they stop the play to zoom in on a situation that's possibly a quarter of an inch offside by an elbow.


Wasn't clear at first, probably because I can't read coherently.
On the same boat then, apologies.
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Post by Nishankly on Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:41 pm

2019/2020 Premier League Discussion: Chapter IV - Page 7 1110

United climbing, yet difficult fixtures await. Top 5 is so much more exciting unless City wins the CAS case at the end of May and United finish 5th only to be propelled into the EL Razz
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Post by Kick on Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:29 pm

Apparently moving your leg upwards to kick someone in the balls is totally legal....

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Post by Thimmy on Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:23 am

Well, it is called football hmm

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Post by Firenze on Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:49 am

Chelsea's run, uff.

United > Spurs > Bayern > Liverpool > Everton

they've been fourth for ages but I think they've been poor all season and probably won't finish there
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Post by urbaNRoots on Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:20 am

Does anyone believe Arsenal can catch up and fight for that 5th place? 6 point difference between Arsenal and 5th placed Tottenham, 12 games left.

We have quite a favorable fixture list up until April 11th when we play Wolves away.

If we go far in the EL, then our chances go down significantly but I can see it with the way we are playing under Arteta.
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Post by El Gunner on Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:31 am

^^ i think so, especially with all of Chelsea, United and Spurs being shite
The players just need to put in the effort to compete in both competitions.
We can take it easy on the FA Cup this season

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Post by Myesyats on Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:43 am

@Kick wrote:Apparently moving your leg upwards to kick someone in the balls is totally legal....

lmao Son was sent off for a nearly identical foul by THE SAME REF no less Laughing

shame firenzo shame



Ahh Man utd are lucky to be in top half of the table thanks to the shield wall assembled by refs.
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Post by danyjr on Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:02 am

Clear difference between the two incidents.

It is that last move by Son which cost him the red. He clearly stretches his legs further than what is natural. In Maguire's case, he is simply falling over with his legs up. No extension, no intention to do harm.

Also bear in mind watching something in slow motion can lead to the viewer misjudging things. A human's brain doesn't work in slow motion to make decisions. This is why I've been a critic of using VAR in slow motion in deciding handball because in slow motion many hand balls can appear to be intentional whereas the defender has no chance of reacting that quickly in real time.

A slow motion replay shall be used solely to judge whether the ball touched the hand, but to judge human intention to play the handball the replay should be played at full speed.

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Post by Nishankly on Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:42 am



Oh no
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Post by Firenze on Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:52 am

@urbaNRoots wrote:Does anyone believe Arsenal can catch up and fight for that 5th place? 6 point difference between Arsenal and 5th placed Tottenham, 12 games left.

We have quite a favorable fixture list up until April 11th when we play Wolves away.

If we go far in the EL, then our chances go down significantly but I can see it with the way we are playing under Arteta.

Absolutely not barring a miracle. 'Arteta ball' isn't exactly delivering results now is it.
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Post by Firenze on Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:53 am

@Nishankly wrote:

Oh no

Kante and Son on for our 4th place rivals. You love to see it.

We've been without Pogba and Rashford for ages. About time the playing field got evened.
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Post by Firenze on Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:54 am

I was backing Spurs to take 4th but without Son, absolutely not.
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Post by Nishankly on Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:54 am

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Post by El Gunner on Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:02 pm

@Firenze wrote:
@urbaNRoots wrote:Does anyone believe Arsenal can catch up and fight for that 5th place? 6 point difference between Arsenal and 5th placed Tottenham, 12 games left.

We have quite a favorable fixture list up until April 11th when we play Wolves away.

If we go far in the EL, then our chances go down significantly but I can see it with the way we are playing under Arteta.

Absolutely not barring a miracle. 'Arteta ball' isn't exactly delivering results now is it.


last time i checked we comfortably beat your scrawny asses

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Post by urbaNRoots on Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:06 pm

@Firenze wrote:
@urbaNRoots wrote:Does anyone believe Arsenal can catch up and fight for that 5th place? 6 point difference between Arsenal and 5th placed Tottenham, 12 games left.

We have quite a favorable fixture list up until April 11th when we play Wolves away.

If we go far in the EL, then our chances go down significantly but I can see it with the way we are playing under Arteta.

Absolutely not barring a miracle. 'Arteta ball' isn't exactly delivering results now is it.
Defensively we’ve improved a lot since Arteta arrived and now our attack is showing as well. Aubameyang is back from his suspension, Lacazette is scoring again,we almost have a fully fit squad (Ceballos, Torreira returning). Game against Newcastle showed what this team can do when fully fit. It wouldn’t be a miracle if results turned up, especially with an easier than usual fixture list until April 11th.

We’ll see.


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