UCL R16 2019/20 | Lyon Vs Juventus

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Post by Robespierre on Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:41 pm

Me every year except for cricket :
@S wrote:I really need to stop following football for a while tbh. This is more depressing than getting covid ffs

Test cricket and Netflix my only saviors now to get through this quarantine period

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Post by Luca on Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:45 pm

I’m glad for some time off too

This game ruined my whole day
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:40 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:.


This referee is plain fucking shit :facepalm:


Ladies and gentlemen, Felix Zwayer
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Post by rincon on Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:47 pm

@danyjr wrote:Not sure what rincon saw in Sarri tbh. There is one thing to be sick of Allegri, there's another to accept a clown in his place and be optimistic about it.

Im sorry what? I was the one here saying not to sack Allegri and to indulge him in his revolution of the squad. It was well discussed here about our next coach after Allegri, and Sarri wasnt in my top 3 proposed/likely ones.

Brings me back to arguing with Nick about how Allegri is a better coach than Sarri. Out. I'm maybe the biggest Allegri fan in GL.

Now, that Sarri isnt the best coach for us doesnt mean that he is at fault for everything. Our squad needed (needs) renewal, as Allegri argued for, and Marotta argued against. One shouldn't be blind and bandwagon to find 1 cause of our problems. Having Matuidi, Khedira, Costa as "main" players on terms of salary and expected role is contributing nothing. Others like Bernardeschi, Pjanic, and Alex Sandro have to different degrees been big disappointments in these last seasons.

The renewal process needs to continue, and it needs to continue in a coherent way. The coach needs to be more inline with the management squad building. Allegri was a master at changing to get the best out of the squad, this was his biggest strength and in the end what led to his sacking. He kept playing along until that was nothing more he could do. Conte on the opposite end of the spectrum says "my way or nothing".

Sarri is not a flexible coach so this disconnect between the management and the coach that we had in past years will not work. I hope that this is obvious enough to our board as well.

That's what I always said about Sarri. Either back him up pr dont get him at all. No point in going halfway.
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Post by Arquitecto on Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:58 pm

Sarri-ball isn't a myth. It just seemed that he catered that specifically to Empoli to Napoli but when stepped up in stature of clubs in Chelsea to Juve, he decided to be more pragmatic.

Motherfucker that is not what they hired you for nor are those your strengths. So why stray away from what had coaches like Pep and Klopp worshipping you to fans worldwide noticing you?

Sarri's tenure also is a testament to how ridiculously important a good midfield is.


Pjanic is ruined by years of misuse and is not who we knew unless he finds what he is anymore. Rabiot is a star no doubt as Ive maintained for years but it is not the engine room needed to compete at top level. Even then Sarri's Juventus lacks general ideas and has no fluidity thus teams easily stamp them out.


I remember early season sometime in his tenure for Juve I saw signs of his best in many won matches but he retracted back into his provinciale track suit bitch wearing shell and became a listless coach with little connection with his players.

Allegri had an emotional relationship with players. From shouting to one another to huge bouts of emotion between them. Plus tactically he was on another stratosphere.


Sarri isn't exactly young so when his farmer ass goes back mid-table he needs to rediscover what he is and not just do things to maintain a foothold on his job.


No doubt though a sacking is needed.


Cristiano seems to adore Juve beyond what I expected but 3 coaches in 3 years I call it here and see him leaving this time.


What a performance tonight by CR though. Legit best of all time.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:13 am

@Robespierre wrote:Ref easily the worst man on pitch
Who hell is him




Cup final 2018, handball by Boateng ahead of Frankfurts goal not given, penalty on Martinez not given despite Zwayer looking at it on the monitor and even Boateng admitting that he kicks Martinez (see below)

"Den muss er pfeifen" - Kevin-Prince Boateng gibt Foul an Martinez zu

​Der FC Bayern hadert nach dem verlorenen Pokalfinale gegen Eintracht Frankfurt nicht nur mit der eigenen Leistung, sondern auch mit einigen Entscheidungen von Schiedsrichter Felix Zwayer, der den Münchenern in der Nachspielzeit trotz Konsultierung der TV-Bilder einen Elfmeter verwehrte. Übeltäter Kevin-Prince Boateng gab nach der Partie zu, dass er Gegenspieler Javi Martinez durchaus strafwürdig traf.

"Ich treffe ihn ganz klar, danach muss der Schiedsrichter entscheiden", so Pokalsieger Boateng nach den Feierlichkeiten in der Mixed-Zone. "Ich dachte, den muss er pfeifen." Doch statt auf den Elfmeterpunkt zu zeigen, gab Schiri Zwayer selbst nach Ansicht der TV-Bilder nur Eckball für die Bayern, in dessen Folge sich der Rekordmeister gar noch das 1:3 fing.
https://www.90min.de/posts/6065403-den-muss-er-pfeifen-kevin-prince-boateng-gibt-foul-an-martinez-zu

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@zigra wrote:It's just weird. Stonewall penalty, you got the video and all and the ref still doesn't give it.

Disgusting corruption AGAIN. Ref should be sent to PRISON.


If you do some research about this particular ref, this is actually not such an exagerration.
That he is still allowed to work as a referee is nothing short of a scandal, and that he is awarded with the cup final,  after his match fixing and also of course his recent catastrophic performance in the quarters Bayern vs Leipzig, is one of the more blatant examples of what is decribed here:

https://www.zeit.de/sport/2017-10/schiedsrichter-streit-dfb-ethik-kommission

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t40754p550-the-bundesliga-thread-17-18?tt=1#1855004

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Felix Zwayer should be in jail.

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t41585p650-the-bundesliga-thread-18-19#1940720

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Felix Zwayer back at it eh

who would have thought, he DOES see handballs, when they are not justified

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t41585p650-the-bundesliga-thread-18-19#1944353

Other German top referees, among them Felix Brych who refereed the other game today and who's actually very good, have gone PUBLIC with their frustration that Zwayer keeps getting promoted by the DFB despite questionable performances.
And keep in mind that Zwayer was Robert Hoyzer's linesman and directly involved in the match fixing scandal in the German leagues. How he's even allowed to act as a ref after that is unbelievable, and it gets more unbelievable that the DFB apparently has built him up as their go-to yes man since then.

Zwayer's career in recent years is a slow burning grade A scandal that's been going on behind the scenes of German refereeing.
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:15 am

And credit to  Roma legend Rudi Garcia too.
He has wrapped tactically Sarri, I feel Italian experience improved him as coach, at the end noone says but Lyon deserved qualification on double leg.
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Post by rincon on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:15 am

The ref was truly shockingly bad
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:23 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:Ref easily the worst man on pitch
Who hell is him




Cup final 2018, handball by Boateng ahead of Frankfurts goal not given, penalty on Martinez not given despite Zwayer looking at it on the monitor and even Boateng admitting that he kicks Martinez (see below)

"Den muss er pfeifen" - Kevin-Prince Boateng gibt Foul an Martinez zu

​Der FC Bayern hadert nach dem verlorenen Pokalfinale gegen Eintracht Frankfurt nicht nur mit der eigenen Leistung, sondern auch mit einigen Entscheidungen von Schiedsrichter Felix Zwayer, der den Münchenern in der Nachspielzeit trotz Konsultierung der TV-Bilder einen Elfmeter verwehrte. Übeltäter Kevin-Prince Boateng gab nach der Partie zu, dass er Gegenspieler Javi Martinez durchaus strafwürdig traf.

"Ich treffe ihn ganz klar, danach muss der Schiedsrichter entscheiden", so Pokalsieger Boateng nach den Feierlichkeiten in der Mixed-Zone. "Ich dachte, den muss er pfeifen." Doch statt auf den Elfmeterpunkt zu zeigen, gab Schiri Zwayer selbst nach Ansicht der TV-Bilder nur Eckball für die Bayern, in dessen Folge sich der Rekordmeister gar noch das 1:3 fing.
https://www.90min.de/posts/6065403-den-muss-er-pfeifen-kevin-prince-boateng-gibt-foul-an-martinez-zu

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@zigra wrote:It's just weird. Stonewall penalty, you got the video and all and the ref still doesn't give it.

Disgusting corruption AGAIN. Ref should be sent to PRISON.


If you do some research about this particular ref, this is actually not such an exagerration.
That he is still allowed to work as a referee is nothing short of a scandal, and that he is awarded with the cup final,  after his match fixing and also of course his recent catastrophic performance in the quarters Bayern vs Leipzig, is one of the more blatant examples of what is decribed here:

https://www.zeit.de/sport/2017-10/schiedsrichter-streit-dfb-ethik-kommission

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t40754p550-the-bundesliga-thread-17-18?tt=1#1855004

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Felix Zwayer should be in jail.

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t41585p650-the-bundesliga-thread-18-19#1940720

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Felix Zwayer back at it eh

who would have thought, he DOES see handballs, when they are not justified

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t41585p650-the-bundesliga-thread-18-19#1944353

Other German top referees, among them Felix Brych who refereed the other game today and who's actually very good, have gone PUBLIC with their frustration that Zwayer keeps getting promoted by the DFB despite questionable performances.
And keep in mind that Zwayer was Robert Hoyzer's linesman and directly involved in the match fixing scandal in the German leagues. How he's even allowed to act as a ref after that is unbelievable, and it gets more unbelievable that the DFB apparently has built him up as their go-to yes man since then.

Zwayer's career in recent years is a slow burning grade A scandal that's been going on behind the scenes of German refereeing.


people expect 5 months for a decisive match . at the end  it's enough a ref  to uspet things in 45 minutes of game.
for me both penalties should not have been given.

Anyway that's really ridicoulous if we think VAR exsists in UCL. What were they doing there on VAR room? lol

in Inter-Getafe 5 minutes passed for controlling a decision, at the end ref decides to watch it with his eyes and he gives penalty for Getafe

it was champions league here but the referees attention was  at historic lows


Last edited by Robespierre on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Warrior on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:25 am

Did not watch the match as temporary boycott, says enough of how much care that we gtfo. We won the match it's sufficient, lately my hopes are to not lose. Winning this edition of CL* would have been fraudulent and bittersweet for Juve in particular. Rather watch this prestigious exhibition tournament as neutral.

Good thing for Aulas i always liked him
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Post by Arquitecto on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:26 am

Zwayer officiates like a criminal too. Little things he does to somehow vindicate his bad decisions and keeps players far away from him via his body language to keep the steam off of him. A terrorist of anything.

Felix Brych is one frustrating and controversial referee but Ive grown to admire him over the years the way he does not just try to appease both sides but does stand firm in his sometimes questionable decisions. Great authority over players too.

Zwayer should not officiate in top level again. Worse off his team for VAR made it even more shocking, tonight.
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Post by danyjr on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:29 am

@rincon wrote:
@danyjr wrote:Not sure what rincon saw in Sarri tbh. There is one thing to be sick of Allegri, there's another to accept a clown in his place and be optimistic about it.

Im sorry what? I was the one here saying not to sack Allegri and to indulge him in his revolution of the squad. It was well discussed here about our next coach after Allegri, and Sarri wasnt in my top 3 proposed/likely ones.

Brings me back to arguing with Nick about how Allegri is a better coach than Sarri. Out. I'm maybe the biggest Allegri fan in GL.

Now, that Sarri isnt the best coach for us doesnt mean that he is at fault for everything. Our squad needed (needs) renewal, as Allegri argued for, and Marotta argued against. One shouldn't be blind and bandwagon to find 1 cause of our problems. Having Matuidi, Khedira, Costa as "main" players on terms of salary and expected role is contributing nothing. Others like Bernardeschi, Pjanic, and Alex Sandro have to different degrees been big disappointments in these last seasons.

The renewal process needs to continue, and it needs to continue in a coherent way. The coach needs to be more inline with the management squad building. Allegri was a master at changing to get the best out of the squad, this was his biggest strength and in the end what led to his sacking. He kept playing along until that was nothing more he could do. Conte on the opposite end of the spectrum says "my way or nothing".

Sarri is not a flexible coach so this disconnect between the management and the coach that we had in past years will not work. I hope that this is obvious enough to our board as well.

That's what I always said about Sarri. Either back him up pr dont get him at all. No point in going halfway.

@rincon wrote:Thank you Chelsea Proud

Best available coach we could have had. Gonna be an exciting season, changing so drastically after 5 years.

Also I remember clearly getting into an argument with me wanting him out of Juve and you defending Sarri. You might not remember, but GL remembers. It was at the start of the season.


Last edited by danyjr on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Warrior on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:31 am

Available is the key word here, i think

If i remember well he was nobody's first choice
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:32 am

Farfan knows I've always liked Olympique Lyon . Bond intensifies today ffs

Anyway great match by him



Last edited by Robespierre on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:32 am

Concentrating all your wages and hopes on a mid 30 year old Ronaldo is NOT a "renewal process" IMO
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Post by rincon on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:32 am

@Dany

Yes I remember the argument indeed. You were calling out Sarri for not being able to have the respect of Ronaldo or star players. Now we see that Ronaldo and Dybala greatly outperformed their last season.

And my comment stands. Inzaghi, Conte, and Gasperini had pledged to their clubs. After these who else was better available for us?

I believed Inzaghi would be our coach, and as I post often, I still believe he will be.


Last edited by rincon on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by danyjr on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:33 am

@Warrior wrote:Available is the key word here, i think

If i remember well he was nobody's first choice
Pochettino, Conte and Inzaghi were available. And Juventus chose a guy who literally a week before said something like "I don't want to go back to Italy ever again, England is the cream of football etc."
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Post by Warrior on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:37 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Concentrating all your wages and hopes on a mid 30 year old Ronaldo is NOT a "renewal process" IMO


Absolutely not, it's a marketing move, we achieve fuck all since then
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Post by danyjr on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:39 am

@rincon wrote:@Dany

Yes I remember the argument indeed. You were calling out Sarri for not being able to have the respect of Ronaldo or starts players. Now we see that Ronaldo and Dybala greatly outperformed their last season.

And my comment stands. Inzaghi, Conte, and Gasperini had pledged to their clubs. After these who else was better available for us?

I believed Inzaghi would be our coach, and as I post often, I still believe he will be.
I reckon you would have gotten Conte had you moved for him. I mean the guy is a Juventus legend both as a player and coach so I can't accept that he would have chosen Inter over Juventus given the choice. Sorry for being captain hindsight but Pochettino was also available, and while I don't think his style would have suited Juventus, it certainly would have been better than what Sarri has brought to this team.
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:42 am

Inzaghi wasn't available. It's difficult to deal with Lotito.
Agnelli has broken off with Conte ( I think ? Juve fans should know it)
Pochettino ... Juve never signs foreign managers. .  Sarri had made good in Napoli and recently won Europa League with Chelsea.

Anyway Arq is right 100 % on a fact. Sarri-ball is frankly a myth.
Sarrism is dead in 2018.
Who saw Chelsea and Juve can notice a substantial pragmatism, team based on offensive individualities, sterile possession ball and not not solid defence .
Juve  missed  Chiellini who was a superb CB but   Bonucci-De Ligt is a great partnership though. But yet....
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Post by Warrior on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:48 am

@danyjr wrote:
@Warrior wrote:Available is the key word here, i think

If i remember well he was nobody's first choice
Pochettino, Conte and Inzaghi were available. And Juventus chose a guy who literally a week before said something like "I don't want to go back to Italy ever again, England is the cream of football etc."


I have no idea why we did not hire Pochettino, he's an interesting profile for Juve, unlike Sarri as he proved it by now

The club hired Sarri because of the threat he was in 2017-2018. It was a debate back then between Juve fans vs others, and i still maintain my point, they had a legit chance at the scudetto. So it was still fresh in everybody's mind including the board. But in 2019-2020 he comes here and we play unacceptable performance and shit midfield. Time to bring Max back i am serious.
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Post by Warrior on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:50 am

Sarrism Laughing
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:52 am

Everything begins from elimination against Ajax.

Juve got knocked out under the  level of gamestyle and it gets developed idea that it's necessary a change of philosophy so as to excel in Europe. So Sarri got mentioned for his gamestyle so attractive in Napoli

but Juve's built to play on a certain way, first of all. Then there are some limits related to Sarri
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Post by rincon on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:54 am

@danyjr wrote:
@rincon wrote:@Dany

Yes I remember the argument indeed. You were calling out Sarri for not being able to have the respect of Ronaldo or starts players. Now we see that Ronaldo and Dybala greatly outperformed their last season.

And my comment stands. Inzaghi, Conte, and Gasperini had pledged to their clubs. After these who else was better available for us?

I believed Inzaghi would be our coach, and as I post often, I still believe he will be.
I reckon you would have gotten Conte had you moved for him. I mean the guy is a Juventus legend both as a player and coach so I can't accept that he would have chosen Inter over Juventus given the choice. Sorry for being captain hindsight but Pochettino was also available, and while I don't think his style would have suited Juventus, it certainly would have been better than what Sarri has brought to this team.

Conte to Juve, as much as it was a dream for me, wasnt happening. Him leaving days into preseason pissed Agnelli off. The relationship hasnt mended.

Inzaghi wasn't available for the same reason we dont have Milinkovic-Savic in our squad. Lotito puts a foot down with Juve. Inzaghi had to break the relationship and he is a Lazio legend.

Gasperini was my choice to be most excited about (and It think Warrior's too). He had a bad rep after Inter that took years to get rid of, and now made an incredible situation out of Atalanta. I think that after this successful CL campaign he will be again our target.

Conte is the best league manager in the world imo. I thought we would lose this league to Inter and posted as much. In fact I think there is an even bigger chance we lose next year.

Poch out.

I did not expect Sarri to win the scudetto, but I was really excited by Sarri. Getting him was the change to a drastically different football style. Instead we see the opposite. We won the league without ever playing as he intends.
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Post by rincon on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:57 am

@Robespierre wrote:Everything begins from elimination against Ajax.

Juve got knocked out under the  level of gamestyle and it gets developed idea that it's necessary a change of philosophy so as to excel in Europe. So Sarri got mentioned for his gamestyle so attractive in Napoli

but Juve's built to play on a certain way, first of all. Then there are some limits related to Sarri

Exactly this.
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Post by Kaladin on Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:42 am

Gasperini will most likely be Juve's next coach
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