Round of 16 - Atletico Madrid vs Juventus

Everyone talking about player choices without context. Cancelo got injured, came back and played disastrous matches. He was a horrible defensive liability against Parma of all teams.

He will start in the return leg after hopefully getting up to speed again.

Douglas is injured. He couldn't recover in time to even make the bench. Also should be available for the return leg.

#Bonucci gobbo Masterclass#AtletiJuve pic.twitter.com/pUJ1XfU1Pi

— AHIA (@Comboasesto) February 20, 2019

Should've kept Benatia over this fool

Did Cancelo suck against Atalanta? He was good in the other games, even against Parma. I don't have that much of a problem with not tracking back at their first goal, it was his first start, probably not in top physical condition, 65th minute and he had just sprinted 60 meters ten seconds earlier. I blame Khedira more, even if Allegri didn't, but that was expected, we all know that Sami is his illegitimate child.

Speaking of Khedira: Allegri decided that he needed his experience against Atleti, played him over the last month to get him in tip top shape, but then was forced to go back to Bentancur, who had lost his confidence in the process and played like it. Unreal how all of Allegri's dumb, conservative mistakes came back to haunt him and us.

This is a forced narrative. Bentancur played 90 minutes in the previous match, and played every single match Serie A match he has been available for since September! Played the full 90 minutes vs Atalanta in CI too. It is not a confidence issue, he got outplayed.

Yes Cancelo sucked, you can choose to ignore it, but it is the reason why he got benched. He managed to look as the worst player in a backline containing Alex, Rugani and De Sciglio. He isn't fully fit mentally and maybe physically, he has 3 game to get back to his level so he should be ok.

This was really a bit of a shock result, Atletico have been in pretty poor form recently, and not like their old self thats always solid and dont concede... but they did it again, forces two goals out of nothing set pieces, and let the opponent attack.

Pretty sure Allegri will think of some fresh ideas for the second leg and all to play for. But imagine if Atletico score one, Juve would need four. Dont think Simone's Atletico have ever conceded that many goals in one match.

Casciavit wrote:fraudball tryna ride the atleti wave

absolutely shameless, don't make me bring up those Barca is winning the CL posts you clown

Doc wrote:

futbol wrote:Atletico will win the whole thing this year with the final being at their home. Only team which stopped them in the CL was Real but Real are a joke these days, lucking their way through against Eredivisie teams.

Only thing you ever predicted accurately was Barcelona winning La Liga. And that is basically like me predicting the sun is gonna rise.

Am I imagining things or are you both coming at me?

Bit of column A, bit of column B

Fraud gets exposed, can't believe it (his first time) (social experiment) (gone sexual)

Kaladin wrote:

#Bonucci gobbo Masterclass#AtletiJuve pic.twitter.com/pUJ1XfU1Pi

— AHIA (@Comboasesto) February 20, 2019

Should've kept Benatia over this fool

It's unbelievable. Benatia isn't fantastic in the offensive phase.. but he's a much better defender then bonucci.

Douglas Costa wouldn't have helped either. He's not reliable when it counts and also is a flat track bully.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Douglas Costa wouldn't have helped either. He's not reliable when it counts and also is a flat track bully.

He has been crap this year so it doesn't make sense to invoke him

I applaud Atletico but lets not get carried away. Ronaldo can easily score a hat trick and win the tie, as he has done before, although he had much better players surrounding him

futbol wrote:

Casciavit wrote:fraudball tryna ride the atleti wave

absolutely shameless, don't make me bring up those Barca is winning the CL posts you clown

Doc wrote:

futbol wrote:Atletico will win the whole thing this year with the final being at their home. Only team which stopped them in the CL was Real but Real are a joke these days, lucking their way through against Eredivisie teams.

Only thing you ever predicted accurately was Barcelona winning La Liga. And that is basically like me predicting the sun is gonna rise.

Am I imagining things or are you both coming at me?

They came on you mate.

Allegri: Atleti have been making teams play badly for 8 years

not sure if Allegri or Solari

Perucho21 wrote:I applaud Atletico but lets not get carried away. Ronaldo can easily score a hat trick and win the tie, as he has done before, although he had much better players surrounding him

He will score a hattrick if they create enough chances for him.

right now Juve's problem against Atletico is not converting chances, it's creating them.

Ronaldo's looked garbage in the CL. He scored a nice goal against us but was irrelevant for 175 minutes. Imagine thinking Ronaldo can score a hattrick in 2019 against anyone not named Cagliari.

rincon wrote:This is a forced narrative. Bentancur played 90 minutes in the previous match, and played every single match Serie A match he has been available for since September! Played the full 90 minutes vs Atalanta in CI too. It is not a confidence issue, he got outplayed.

Yes Cancelo sucked, you can choose to ignore it, but it is the reason why he got benched. He managed to look as the worst player in a backline containing Alex, Rugani and De Sciglio. He isn't fully fit mentally and maybe physically, he has 3 game to get back to his level so he should be ok.

Well, no. A forced narrative is when you decide that a player's defensive form is terrible based on one play out of 3+ games. A play that was also understandable if you looked at the context, but what's the point in doing that if it doesn't fit the narrative.

Yes, Bentancur played every game in Serie A and CL... That was before the winter break. We were all celebrating that he was going to be the end of Khedira, then his form dipped in December, just like for the rest of the team and possibly due to fatigue, and he got benched for one of Allegri's favorite pets. Playing two games out of six, one out of position in the Cup and the other one against a bottom feeder, is what backups do. He's an instinctive player and a good passer the ball, the last thing he needed was to second guess himself so that he wouldn't get benched again. It also didn't help that he didn't get more playing minutes before this match and that Allegri had returned to his speculative ways, asking him to play a style more suited for Khedira.

Also, I can see why Allegri likes Khedira and Matuidi, they're physical, tough and experienced, but De Sciglio is none of those and he's also good for one awful mistake every other game. I have no fucking idea what is the fascination with him.

Robes has to be bluffing us all with his subtle humour if he thinks Juventus will make a comeback even if its back in Torino.

Match played out how I expected though I cannot prove that based on no commentary before the game.

Simeone knew what he was doing from the beginning as Allegri had his rare but crucial brainfarts in which he tweaks unnecessarily and prevents his own from playing to their own comfort and for over a month their football has been dire and their performances in the Serie A have shown it.

Sandro being out and of course Atletico's physical approach draws out Juventus in their slow measured direction in their game should be enough to close the tie.

@adun No to all of that.

"one play out of 3+ games" there is a bias here. Cancelo is the starter, he is Allegri's first choice. He got injured and right as he came back got put back into the team, because he is Allegri's first choice. Then he played terribly, then he got played again, and he played terribly again. As such he was left out of the starting lineup. The speculation in the media was that Cancelo would get played in attack, exactly because of the performances he gave at fullback since coming back, which would have been a good idea.

Now the thing about Bentancur is just not true, that's not even an opinion. Bentancur played every match he has been available for since September, that's just a fact. He was the starter vs Milan, Roma, Lazio and Atalanta (twice) recently, as well as the starter against Frosinone right before the CL match. Enough with the excuses, he played a bad match and was bullied by Atletico. He'll just turn the page and hopefully he does better next time.

Allegri made mistakes in this match with the setup and taking too long to sub. Aside from that, not playing players who are out of form is a good thing. Play by merit. Imagine the storm if he started Cancelo and he made 1 or two mistakes as usual, Allegri would get crucified because Cancelo had been playing so poorly in the run in. It's pure hindsight to criticize this if you watch the previous Juve matches.

rincon wrote:@adun No to all of that.

"one play out of 3+ games" there is a bias here. Cancelo is the starter, he is Allegri's first choice. He got injured and right as he came back got put back into the team, because he is Allegri's first choice. Then he played terribly, then he got played again, and he played terribly again. As such he was left out of the starting lineup. The speculation in the media was that Cancelo would get played in attack, exactly because of the performances he gave at fullback since coming back, which would have been a good idea.

Now the thing about Bentancur is just not true, that's not even an opinion. Bentancur played every match he has been available for since September, that's just a fact. He was the starter vs Milan, Roma, Lazio and Atalanta (twice) recently, as well as the starter against Frosinone right before the CL match. Enough with the excuses, he played a bad match and was bullied by Atletico. He'll just turn the page and hopefully he does better next time.

Allegri made mistakes in this match with the setup and taking too long to sub. Aside from that, not playing players who are out of form is a good thing. Play by merit. Imagine the storm if he started Cancelo and he made 1 or two mistakes as usual, Allegri would get crucified because Cancelo had been playing so poorly in the run in. It's pure hindsight to criticize this if you watch the previous Juve matches.

Sorry, but no to all of this.

Cancelo played 20 minutes against Lazio and changed the game. Then, three days later, got subbed in when Chiellini got injured in the Cup game and he was awful. Except that none of his mistakes were on defense, they were all in possession, he gave away the ball like he was a server for the soup line. It was uncharacteristic and he bounced back with a very good performance against Parma. But hey, he didn't sprint back on defense after already having run sixty meters in the other direction, so it was decided that he sucked and that was the end of him. Yes, he probably wasn't in top physical condition, but that was 18 days before the Atleti game, his fitness levels should have been back up by then. The speculation in the media was based on this same wrong narrative, that he was shit on defense.


It's completely irrelevant that Bentancur played every game last year. The fact is that he played every game that he was available until Khedira became available. After that, he became his backup. Again, cause apparently it's a strange concept to you: getting benched when you play well, will affect your confidence, especially if you're young. He got bulled by Atletico because Allegri asked him to play Khedira's game. He should have played Can there. Still wouldn't have made a difference.

It's like reading a conspiracy theorist, choosing to take all the evidence and throwing it away.

I don't understand how this is so difficult: Bentancur has played every game, not just last year, this year. He wasnt playing well for a while, yet he continued to play every game. Every single game. He played this week, last week, every week. He played on the league, the cup, the supercup, the champions league. Open up a new tab, find your favourite football website and look at Bentancur. Maybe he needs to play not just 100% of the games, but also 100% of the minutes to be able to play his game, what a player that would make him.

The rest are excuses and trying to spin things around.

Understanding defensive play like its 1970. Teams defend through possession, giving the ball away in front of our own box repeatedly, including when it directly leads to a goal is shit defensive play. There is no conspiracy in the media, or among the fans, or by Allegri, about this, it is what it is.

rincon wrote:It's like reading a conspiracy theorist, choosing to take all the evidence and throwing it away.

Nah, I'm just putting the evidence in context. After all, that's how this discussion started, with you bringing up context.

rincon wrote:I don't understand how this is so difficult: Bentancur has played every game, not just last year, this year. He wasnt playing well for a while, yet he continued to play every game. Every single game. He played this week, last week, every week. He played on the league, the cup, the supercup, the champions league. Open up a new tab, find your favourite football website and look at Bentancur. Maybe he needs to play not just 100% of the games, but also 100% of the minutes to be able to play his game, what a player that would make him.

Well, then, let's look at the matches:

Milan - Bentancur plays full game; Khedira subbed in in '89

Chievo - Bentancur plays only the last 15 minutes because Allegri prefers Matudi in a 442

Lazio - Bentancur plays full game

Atalanta - Bentancur plays full game, but he plays in front of the defence for the first 70 minutes and it's a disaster; Khedira plays the first 70 minutes;

Parma - Khedira plays 80 minutes and makes mistakes at the first two goals, then he is replaced by Bentacur

Sassuolo - Khedira plays 65 minutes and is replaced by Bentancur.

Frosinone - Khedira plays 80 minutes; Bentancur - full game

So, out of 7 games, Bentancur played less than thirty minutes in four games (I'm putting the Atalanta game in this category because he played out of position for the first 70 minutes) and he played the full match the other three timea, with two of those a month ago. Meanwhile, Khedira was a starter in the last four games. The trend was obvious: Khedira started playing so much because Allegri was prepping him for Atletico and it was coming at the expense of Bentancur.

It's completely irrelevant how many games has Bentacur played this season because the lack or not lack of playing time was not the big issue. It was that he had to play a style not suited for him, against a difficult opponent and while being low on confidence because he had been benched for someone who has barely played this season and who has been good only for one or two months in  the last 18. It would have been understandable if his form had dipped below the team's level, but that wasn't the case. We have been playing poorly since the last 10 minutes against MU game and his level of play was in line with most of his team mates. If someone really had to be benched, it should have been Matuidi, he was the worst out of all the midfielders. It would have also been understandable if Allegri had deemed him not fit for the physical style that he was going for, but then, why was he Khedira's backup and not Can?

rincon wrote:Understanding defensive play like its 1970. Teams defend through possession, giving the ball away in front of our own box repeatedly, including when it directly leads to a goal is shit defensive play. There is no conspiracy in the media,  or among the fans, or by Allegri, about this, it is what it is.

Nice spin, but no, try these clichés with someone else. Giving the ball away is bad offensive play and nothing else; it has nothing to do with a player's capabilities to defend. Those bad plays, btw, had a lot to do with Bentancur playing in front of the defense. Once Pjanic got subbed in and took Bentancur's place there, Cancelo looked a lot more comfortable on the ball. Even so, it would have been perfectly fine if Allegri had benched him on account of those plays, but he didn't, he started him the next game and he was great. Except that he didn't track back one time and Parma scored a goal. So, Allegri being the reactionary conservative that he is, fell back to his safe zone and decided to play De Sciglio, because of his reputation for being a better defender. An overstated reputation actually, the guy is a numpty. Also, he, too, lost the ball against Atalanta, he basically assisted Zapata for the final goal.

There will be no comeback here

We missed a great opportunity this year

Feeling sad after getting to know this week's CL results

Hope I am proven wrong on Tuesday but I think it's very unlikely.

It's better than to lose in the final. Always look on the bright side, Sugar.

Juve scottish fans are ready, with subtitles. is this globalization?

We never give up. Never. #GETREADY TO COMEBACK! pic.twitter.com/rxlXOFE3cx

— JuventusFC (@juventusfc) March 9, 2019

"Get ready to comeback"?

that's not proper English is it