Italy election

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Post by rincon Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:00 pm

and so, little over one year later, Italy is once again without government.

Salvini tabled a vote of no confidence for Conte, the primer minister, effectively dissolving the Lega+M5S coalition. Conte lashed out against Salvini in the senate and resigned.

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Post by Art Morte Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:08 pm

Was expecting these news since they formed that government tbh. Between the opinion differences on the economy (or government spending), the EU and immigration, Italy doesn't seem to have a majority government to form that would truly work together.
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Post by rincon Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:21 pm

M5S as a populist anti-establishment POS party had refused to form any coalitions with the left. Lega as the populist right wingers had a more amicable approach towards coalitions. Still they managed a way to seize more power by joining up with M5S in an absurd coalition of populism with no unifying position except that of disrupting the country.

This is the only way this could end.

Now both will turn around on their previous harder stance and seek more "traditional" coalitions with their side of the spectrum in an attempt to gain power.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:45 pm

So Brothers of Italy is even farther to the right than Salvini, correct?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:29 pm

I'm the rare good news from Italian politics, Salvini Laughing
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Post by Robespierre Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:26 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:So Brothers of Italy is even farther to the right than Salvini, correct?

Yes.
Honestly it's enough to know some their militant to get the stink
Fratelli d'Italia maintain historical roots with MSI - as the symbol - the tricolore flame on logo  ( MSI was old Italian party born in post-war on the ashes of Fascist Party.His leader was Almirante, an old gunman of partisans.   In 1994 MSI turned into " Alleanza Nazionale",led by Fini, and new party declared to abandon the ideological references to fascism in order to qualify as a political force legitimized to govern. The swerve towards a " modern Right" gave good results to the party. But then Fini chose to merge with Forza Italia for a new party, Popolo della Libertà. AN dies, PDL will finish soon too , just Forza Italia will be back .
At that point former AN politicians announce to create a new   right wing party ( but not Fini, out of politics after some problems with justice) , and it is Fratelli d'Italia.
Yes so I consider it farther  to the right than Salvini because their historic background is the post-fascism . Still they maintain an ambiguous attitude ( I mean, they can't admitt to be fascist because it's against constitution , but they don't celebrate 25th April , their militants divert questions on Mussolini ...). Lega hasn't same background, it's a transformation created " ad hoc" from Salvini.
He realized that there was a wide space on the right of political system, and he launched on it.
I didn't like even old Lega Nord of course, but it was another type of party. Not a party of national right, but regionalist.
It had embraced different political experiences. Many came from old PCI too, Bossi was / is a declared anti-fascist.
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Post by iftikhar Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:54 pm

Brothers of Italy have won a regional presidency in what's supposedly a leftist stronghold. What's your analysis @Robespierre???
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Post by Robespierre Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:07 am

The response is simple :  it is obsolete to talk about  red strongholds    in Italy in 2020.

It's normal since political system has been turned upside down.
During Cold war era Italy had the greatest Communist Party of the whole Europe, the only country where the Communists ( PCI ) overpowered on Socialists (PSI)

In 1991, after tne end of USSR, Italian Communist Party (PCI) was dissolved and re-launched as the Democratic Party of the Left ( DS).
Socialist Party (PSI)  was even disbanded in 1994 as a result of the Tangentopoli scandals. ( Italy hasn't an important Socialist party so now)

In 2007 another radical transformation,  DS merges  with various centre-left parties  and it was born PD ( Partito Democratico).

The point is that - while a leftist could vote DS  (that party born from the ashes of Communist Party , not Communist anymore, but left wing surely)  , now he struggles to vote a party as PD ( I can confirm it ) , too much heterogeneous inside and honestly much more inclined to the centre than to left  ( it's official a centre-left party  . At least DS  was more to left than centre)

In addition to this weakness of the PD, well , the populist wave is very strong in Italy . It 's reflects on M5S ( an apolitical party, but it's basically the populism at its prime . terrible) and on a populist right wing.

the centre-right is moved to right because the egemonic party of the coalition is Lega now ( right  wing) and not Forza Italia (centre-right). So while tendency goes towards the centre from a side , it happens the oppiste on other other side

Having said that, defining Marche a " red stronghold" is just overrated.

It  is not " homogeneous" region , it has  some  red sides inside, right wing hadn't won for 25 years ...

but I mean, the only two real " red strongholds " in Italy are Tuscany ( the region where Florence is ) and Emilia Romagna ( the region where Bologna is )

And in fact, even in this period, when right wing is so strong in Italy while left wing undergoing decomposition ... Right party (Lega ) has  lost  both in Toscana and Emilia Romagna   while centre-left  (PD ) has won equally on both regions

And Tuscan candidat was even a weak candidate .... But simply Lega can't win in Tuscany.
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Post by iftikhar Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:15 am

Good brief, thanks. Just another point, if you don't mind,

@Robespierre wrote:the centre-right is moved to right because the egemonic party of the coalition is Lega now ( right wing) and not Forza Italia (centre-right). So while tendency goes towards the centre from a side , it happens the oppiste on other other side
So the lefts are trying to take the central grounds vacated by the centrists/center-right!!!

If that's the case, then (correct me, if I'm wrong)

#1. The central ground has no appeal since it's the populists who are enjoying any surge. or

#2. The lefts have serious structural/leadership deficiencies to fill that central vacuum.
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