Re: Sack Zidane thread

[Cyborg]

Zidane is a stubborn arrogant coward.

He doesnt want to change anything because if he does and it works, everyone will say I told you so. It seems he is putting his pride before the team

He has defended Benzema so much, he cant ever drop him, even if he wanted to.

He is a coward for not using the younger players more. Ceballos, Llorente and Theo should be given more starts.

They are wasted on the bench.

[Mr Nick09]

i dont know if he is a coward but a struggling manager never rotates, or at least rotate less. he is 14 points away from barca and while it's already bad, any drop points would go to catastrophic.

Realistically here, the goal is to avoid CL qualifiers, so we need to finish top 3. we are 6 points behind valencia with 2 games in hands

[titosantill]

@cyborg, very strong words, and a bit ridiculous. every manager wants to do what they can to win. no manager wants to lose on purpose so they can avoid people telling them "i told you so". that doesn't serve any purpose. where he goofed at was in the summer (him, flo, whoever, they both take the cake on that one imo). he put himself in a corner with mr modern striker and has no choice to defend him, cos the only other option is mayoral, who isn't a world beater

as for the other young players, as nick rightly said its tough to rotate when you're struggling, its even tougher when the players you're trying to rotate with aren't necessarily those that for sure can guarantee you three points. its a case of us thinking our shit didn't stink in the summer, now we're surrounded by it and trying to get out.....coward is very extreme

james was the presidents buy signed for 80 million and was benched by zidane, i don't see any cowardice in making such a decision. zidane has made mistakes and has had his flaws, like every coach, i wouldn't put cowardice as one of those flaws, at least so far, he hasn't exhibited that character in my eyes

[guest7]

For a man manager he seems to ostracize alot of players, never really givin a F about their feelings though.

Unlike Pep who has a tendency of being known for making their players feel like home and every player seems to love him alot for that.

[titosantill]

For a man manager he seems to ostracize alot of players, never really givin a F about their feelings though.

Unlike Pep who has a tendency of being known for making their players feel like home and every player seems to love him alot for that.

zlatan and eto'o really loved him a lot

[guest7]

For a man manager he seems to ostracize alot of players, never really givin a F about their feelings though.

Unlike Pep who has a tendency of being known for making their players feel like home and every player seems to love him alot for that.

zlatan and eto'o really loved him a lot

That was when he was young and new. Every manager does these mistakes. But does anyone comment on Zidane like they comment on Pep? Don't think so.

[titosantill]

zidane too is young and new, no? he hasn't even coached for 3 full seasons. and last season and two seasons ago the talk was that he made the players love him so much that they went out and one for him, not his tactics....i mean if i'm not mistaken, wasn't that what was being said? i'm mad at zidane for the summer too, don't get me wrong, i'm mad we have no other cf that can score goals, i'm mad we didn't take into account bale's injuries which started at us right in the face, mad we are 14 points behind the rivals (technically 15 considering they'll have the better h2h)

but the obsession with pep, pep this pep that, who mind you will never ever ever coach here is too much. (and i've noticed this obsession even when carlo was the coach) maybe we should beg pep to come and coach us, hire xavi as his assistant while we're at it, and name our stadium after cruyff and total football. zidane has had his gaffes, bringing pep's name into this solves nothing, nothing at all

[Mr Nick09]

rating a manager by comments his former players make of him lol

[guest7]

rating a manager by comments his former players make of him lol

Hope that was sarcasm lol

[Doc]

Pep has been overly criticised as much as he has been overly praised. Apparently, he gets both extremes so to say Zidane is getting some shorter stick than Pep is pretty wrong.

In fact, Zidane is very much getting special treatment here. Very few managers can survive a 3-0 loss at the Bernabeu to Barcelona and not only is Zidane surviving, he is pretty much looking like he'll be here next season. I mean, no white rags have been seen waving in the Bernabeu, Flo is not speaking vaguely about Zidane's future and everything is relatively calm.

Oh and I think even if we finish 4th, we'll not be in the UCL qualifications. I think from next season, Spain's top 4 goes straight into the UCL. Not too certain about that though.

[Doc]

Also, Pep, like any egotistical manager out there ain't some teddy bear with a heart beat when players are involved. If Pep has no use for a player, best believe that player is not gonna see any game time or some case, Pep would have not much to say to him either.

[The Demon of Carthage]

I agree with you. Zidane is clearly getting special treatment here. Any other manager would have been fired by now. Zidane is in fourth place, our worst standing in years, and 16 points behind Barcelona, and yet he's still in charge.

[Cyborg]

@cyborg, very strong words, and a bit ridiculous. every manager wants to do what they can to win. no manager wants to lose on purpose so they can avoid people telling them "i told you so". that doesn't serve any purpose. where he goofed at was in the summer (him, flo, whoever, they both take the cake on that one imo). he put himself in a corner with mr modern striker and has no choice to defend him, cos the only other option is mayoral, who isn't a world beater

as for the other young players, as nick rightly said its tough to rotate when you're struggling, its even tougher when the players you're trying to rotate with aren't necessarily those that for sure can guarantee you three points. its a case of us thinking our shit didn't stink in the summer, now we're surrounded by it and trying to get out.....coward is very extreme

james was the presidents buy signed for 80 million and was benched by zidane, i don't see any cowardice in making such a decision. zidane has made mistakes and has had his flaws, like every coach, i wouldn't put cowardice as one of those flaws, at least so far, he hasn't exhibited that character in my eyes

Yea, ok. Maybe it seems a bit harsh calling that. But this team has been playing poorly for months now.

Cant he see that? Cant he see that there is need for change? whether it be change in formation, tactics, using other players or buying some.

Yet, week in week out, he does the same thing and after each loss his rhetoric is the same.

He is a legend, that is why he has lasted so long.

if PSG blow us away, and it looks like that will happen, he is gone.

[titosantill]

he's lasted long more because of the titles than him being a legend. he does the same thing week in week out cos he (we) shot ourselves in the foot in the summer. i can't remember where i was reading it but someone was asking why we keep playing 442. simple, the front 3 have hardly been available together, and individually they have been far from special

you look at the bench....i'm not even going to go into this, cos all my posts have been the same for the last few months. its tough to sign players now, especially as we need major major players. you can only change formation based on who you have. the only solution is throw caution to the wind and play some of these players we signed who never play

BUT, the thing with that is, those players will most likely not give us the points we are looking for. zidane put way too much faith in this squad, and considering the number of goals we got from the bench, and injuries, it made no sense. all we can do now cyborg is just watch these games and look forward to the summer. this egg has hatched, we can't put it back

at least, what we know for sure is, flo is doing his homework right now and isn't going to wait last minute to tie deals up. its certainly the end of the modern cf experiment, that's for sure

[The Demon of Carthage]

From his press conference today:

I don't need anyone and that's the bottom line. I want to be very clear about that, I don't want any new players.

Yes, and why would you? You're running away with the league, you're still unbeaten this season and your team is playing beautiful football. You clearly know what you're talking about.

[Valkyrja]

I agree with you. Zidane is clearly getting special treatment here. Any other manager would have been fired by now. Zidane is in fourth place, our worst standing in years, and 16 points behind Barcelona, and yet he's still in charge.

no shit, struggling back-to-back CL and La Liga winning manager being getting special treatment compared to the previous, not so successful managers, who would've thought.

this team taught us badly, we've become accustomed to them winning lots of stuff, you can't always win, that's life, move on ffs.

[The Demon of Carthage]

He's fourth in the league behind Atlético and Valencia, there's no excuse for that. Please don't try to justify mediocrity for god's sake.

We're not even talking about winning something at this point. But there's a minimum level required which he must never go under if he doesn't want his position as head coach to be called into question.

What he has done so far during the current season warrants firing on the spot. He's trailing Barcelona by 16 points (the highest point deficit in decades) and is losing points left and right, and on top of it all, he firmly and stubbornly refuses to bring reinforcements.

There's absolutely no excuse for him to be performing at this atrocious level which roughly hovers around the depth of 50 feet of crap below the surface, and his past achievements shouldn't shield him from criticism. Not after this.

He has stooped to a new and unprecedented low, the kind of low that makes his past achievements pales in comparison and puts him in a great position to get the ax.

And make no mistake, the trophies he has won for us should earn him gratitude not a permanent contract. Don't confuse the two.
If he's no longer able to perform at the required level, there's no point in keeping him at the helm.

[Hapless_Hans]

I agree with you. Zidane is clearly getting special treatment here. Any other manager would have been fired by now. Zidane is in fourth place, our worst standing in years,  and 16 points behind Barcelona, and yet he's still in charge.

Nonsensical to talk of 'special treatment' for Zidane, as if the situations were comparable.

Of course a manager who won *bleep* back to back Champions Leagues in his first two years, while also making you reigning La Liga champions, gets special treatment. Noone has ever managed this before, it IS something special.

And honestly, I'll talk about luck in draws (2016) and favourable refereeing (2017) all day long, but your performances in 2017 CL, in the semis against Atletico, in the final vs Juve and at times also vs us in the quarters were pretty stunning. Best Real in a long, long time.

So stop complaining. The reason you're not doing well is because you've invested too little. Far too little. All the while your attacking numbers collapsed with Benzema and Ronaldo being finished. You need investment. It's not rocket science. It's also not rocket science that back to back CLs and a league win would not be incentive enough to invest.

So now you'll have potentially a somewhat poorer season, then let the club invest properly in summer, and leave Zidane alone.

Spoilt little children.

Edit: just saw this

no shit, struggling back-to-back CL and La Liga winning manager being getting special treatment compared to the previous, not so successful managers, who would've thought.

this team taught us badly, we've become accustomed to them winning lots of stuff, you can't always win, that's life, move on ffs.

Exactly.

[The Demon of Carthage]

hans, may I ask why do you purposely keep on ignoring the fact that Zidane is partly to blame for the club's recent lack of activities in the last two transfer windows, especially when the latter keeps on saying that he doesn't want to sign anyone pretty much every time he gets his hands on a mic?

Aside from that, I assume you're decent enough to admit that Madrid being fourth in the league, 16 points behind Barcelona, is unacceptable.

[Hapless_Hans]

What do you mean 'unnacceptable'? Do you think Zidane thinks it's ok? Like, he doesn't want to win? He's content? Like, you, Demon of Carthage, GL poster, the arbiter of acceptability, needs to point out to Zinedine Zidane that 4th in the league is "unacceptable"?

Drop your high and mighty act. Of course it's unnacceptable but what are you going to do? Do you think they should all commit ritual harakiri to make up for the unnacceptable shame of being 4th in the league in midseason?
While being reigning  league and CL champion?
Calm the *bleep* down. It's a game.

[Thimmy]

I really miss that tenacity we've had over the past two seasons. The tenacity that Zidane was always credited for, that extra bit of work rate and synergy we seemed to obtain as soon as Benitez took a hike. It helped us wear out the likes of Las Palmas last season, when it long had looked like they were our equals - they weren't. At least, not in terms of their willingness to fight for points. It didn't matter if opponent teams in the league were dominating us or pushing us back for the majority of matches, we shot back when they least expected it, when they seemingly became complacent and thought their winning goal was inevitable. It wasn't entertaining to watch, but it's a perfect example of how the ends justify the means. More often than not, we snatched that winning or equalizing goal, and I think it was largely thanks to that never say die attitude that we were able to do so. As an icing on the cake, we stepped up our performance level tremendously against the top sides, as well. We seem to be on the opposite end of that scenario this season. We're the ones who keep getting complacent, and we're the ones who get punished for it time and time again.

I'm sure there are other variables that play into our underwhelming performances, but Zidane's magic, motivational power has evidently evaporated. We don't have the individual performances to make up for it either. It's understandable that the players aren't as focused on winning as they were two seasons ago. Hell, I'm surprised they kept it up for so long, but surely, there's a moderate solution to all of this. Even if we don't win anything, I think our recent performance level and results warrant some changes being made. I don't think those changes necessarily need to be a different coach, but if ZZ insists on retaining his current crop of players despite not being able to improve our circumstances in the slightest, then I don't see where else the problem may lie.

[The Demon of Carthage]

What do you mean 'unnacceptable'? Do you think Zidane thinks it's ok? Like, he doesn't want to win? He's content? Like, you, Demon of Carthage, GL poster, the arbiter of acceptability, needs to point out to Zinedine Zidane that 4th in the league is "unacceptable"?

Drop your high and mighty act. Of course it's unnacceptable but what are you going to do? Do you think they should all commit ritual harakiri to make up for the unnacceptable shame of being 4th in the league in midseason?
While being reigning  league and CL champion?
Calm the *bleep* down. It's a game.

You still didn't answer my question. You just came across overly hostile for no apparent reason.

So let me ask you again, why do you keep ignoring the fact that he's partly to blame for not strengthening the squad and for repeatedly admitting that he doesn't want to sign anyone?

[Mr Nick09]

I really miss that tenacity we've had over the past two seasons. The tenacity that Zidane was always credited for, that extra bit of work rate and synergy we seemed to obtain as soon as Benitez took a hike. It helped us wear out the likes of Las Palmas last season, when it long had looked like they were our equals - they weren't. At least, not in terms of their willingness to fight for points. It didn't matter if opponent teams in the league were dominating us or pushing us back for the majority of matches, we shot back when they least expected it, when they seemingly became complacent and thought their winning goal was inevitable. It wasn't entertaining to watch, but it's a perfect example of how the ends justify the means. More often than not, we snatched that winning or equalizing goal, and I think it was largely thanks to that never say die attitude that we were able to do so. As an icing on the cake, we stepped up our performance level tremendously against the top sides, as well. We seem to be on the opposite end of that scenario this season. We're the ones who keep getting complacent, and we're the ones who get punished for it time and time again.

I'm sure there are other variables that play into our underwhelming performances, but Zidane's magic, motivational power has evidently evaporated. We don't have the individual performances to make up for it either. It's understandable that the players aren't as focused on winning as they were two seasons ago. Hell, I'm surprised they kept it up for so long, but surely, there's a moderate solution to all of this. Even if we don't win anything, I think our recent performance level and results warrant some changes being made. I don't think those changes necessarily need to be a different coach, but if ZZ insists on retaining his current crop of players despite not being able to improve our circumstances in the slightest, then I don't see where else the problem may lie.

It's interesting you say this, yet i can't help but think this post actually explains why we have been struggling so much to be consistent in la liga, while barca dominated the past 10 years of spanish football.

All those qualities of never give up, fight till the end, will to overcome... are amazing mental resources to have in a team. Actually no team can win at the high level, without a substantial amount of those.

Problem is, if those are the primary qualities of your team, then they will very quickly suffer mental fatigue as a consequence and won give you those repeat performances year to year. If you look at our pattern of wins in la liga in the previous years, it's basically, WIN--> long grought ---> WIN---> long drought. So we win one year, go through years of barca beating us until we muster enough mental resources to produce one of those winning season, but then we look deflated right after. Happened after Mou won la liga, happening now after we did last season.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, Barca, which we whipped for years, has figured out a way of playing football that allows them to crush teams with minimum effort. So they go into seasons, and without dipping deep in those mental resources (before it's taxing), they will dominate possession, create easy advantage through quick ball possession, score goals, and keep more possession to stop you from getting chances. Result? 10 years of la liga domination.

I look at things pragmatically, i dont care that they are our sworn enemy, they are doing something better than us that we need to learn from. Yes there is a factor Messi, and they built a special squad etc, but the example of Bayern and City say a lot more about that style than Barca's success. Bayern dominated the bundesliga in a way that was almost unprecedented, it's easy to check how many records they broke in bundi, specially in terms of how quickly they had the league won. Now City is doing the same in EPL that was supposedly a top 6 of european powerhouses. They have all been dismantled by City, and that's because none of those teams are keeping up with the football City are playing. And Messi is not in england, it's just football.

So going back to my point, i think building a team on fighting spirit is taxing and has proven to product inconsistent results. While examples of teams that did something differently in terms of how they play football, built success for long periods (and you can also include Sacchi's MIlan which i love as a reference).

I genuinely think that's the way forward, the way we play football needs to be a lot more dominant. The model that exist right now is positional football, and managers that practice that style are very very few in numbers. we can't be fighting with a team like Las Palmas till a Ramos header in the 95th minutes, 7 games in a row. That's what we did last season. This year? we are losing and drawing those same games.

What's interesting though, those qualities delivered some much needed CL for us in the past couple of years, those qualities are much more fitting to a cup competition, since the games are spread throughout the year.

That's why i advocate us moving on from managers like Ancelotti, Mou or Zidane. The way forward to me, is improving our football, make the jump to juego de posicion, and the few managers that practice that style are the likes of Tuchel, Lopetegui and Sarri outside of Guardiola. That's my trio, i only have a doubt with regard to Lopetegui because i did not follow Porto closely when we was coaching them.

[Doc]

You know things really different when a Bayern fan is calling us "spoiled little children". Still gonna maintain my stance that whatever Zidane was doing is no longer working and his time has come to an end. As with Ronaldo. And Benzema. And, I really hate to say it, Marcelo.

[The Madrid One]

Yes good points Nick, we give up too much control with our football and it is something i have always been displeased with as long as i've been a fan, it is indicative of various nuanced causes which are not conducive to league consistency, but in the end it's all also down to club infrastructure. If you want to make long lasting change to our modus operandi then bringing in a manager to do that has to be informed and supported by a willingness by the folks in power to "do things" differently and shake things up. Aka start by kicking Blasphema to the curb for one. Ideally all of BBC but that is a pipe dream.

Albeit "fighting culture" is part of the club's cultural attributes, imo it is romanticized gloss over what the modus operandi really is, which is more or less the galactico stereotype we are currently well known for, aka get 11 world class names and a disposable coach who can keep them tight enough to win, which is to be fair, how most clubs seem to run to some extent anyhow. That way of doing things can be as flimsy as it sounds and up until we improved our midfield in 13/14 we were getting trounced in CL anyhow, which has ultimately proved to be overrated cannon fodder for us up until the latter stages during the current decade.

Alas, it's the same old story.

[Thimmy]

Barca have for the longest time been better than us at crushing teams with minimal effort. I'm also under the impression that most La Liga teams seem to respect them more than they respect us, as I mentioned in a different post. Certain teams have been bending over for us since for as long as I can remember, and it wasn't until recently that I noticed that these "luxury breaks" in the season where our players didn't have to needlessly exert themselves, have become few and far between. Barca have had their fair share of poor and even disastrous performances in recent years, but up until their uncharacteristic bottling of the league last season, they'd been masters of consistency. I can only assume that Zidane found the source of their luck and managed to tap into it

I agree with your assessment that what seems like the most proven formula for success and longevity is largely based on stamina management/preservation. However, the only manager I can think of that has had any success worth mentioning with that type of football is Guardiola - who I highly doubt will ever want to manage Real Madrid. I do wish that we'll one day be able to play a brand of football that increases the likelihood of success despite putting minimal effort into it, but as it stands, that's only a pipe dream.

I think it's pretty safe to say that City and PSG are looking like the two strongest teams in Europe, right now. Unlike us, Barcelona are looking very confident and consistent in the league, but I'd be surprised if confidence can compensate for their lack of star power, in comparison to the aforementioned teams. PSG have exactly what we've lacked the most this season - goalscorers. They have a relatively young squad, and they've pretty much monopolized attacking talent that can both score and create. No one wants to play against them, and I'm prepared for a depressing night of football when we give them a prime opportunity to show what they're capable of against highly rated opposition outside of France. I've tried to watch as many of PSG's games as possible this season, and it's frightening how good they are up front. I'm ashamed to admit that their attacking prowess is on a completely different level compared to ours. With that being said, City are looking like winners in their own respect. They have several players who seem to be hitting form this season. Even David Silva, who I had assumed would be past it at this point in his career. As if that wasn't enough, they seem to have inherited that never say die attitude that we know all too well. Traditionally, that has been an indicative mark of a European champion - one that we bore last season.

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