Re: Sack Zidane thread

by Thimmy Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:49 am

Barca have for the longest time been better than us at crushing teams with minimal effort. I'm also under the impression that most La Liga teams seem to respect them more than they respect us, as I mentioned in a different post. Certain teams have been bending over for us since for as long as I can remember, and it wasn't until recently that I noticed that these "luxury breaks" in the season where our players didn't have to needlessly exert themselves, have become few and far between. Barca have had their fair share of poor and even disastrous performances in recent years, but up until their uncharacteristic bottling of the league last season, they'd been masters of consistency. I can only assume that Zidane found the source of their luck and managed to tap into it Razz

I agree with your assessment that what seems like the most proven formula for success and longevity is largely based on stamina management/preservation. However, the only manager I can think of that has had any success worth mentioning with that type of football is Guardiola - who I highly doubt will ever want to manage Real Madrid. I do wish that we'll one day be able to play a brand of football that increases the likelihood of success despite putting minimal effort into it, but as it stands, that's only a pipe dream.

I think it's pretty safe to say that City and PSG are looking like the two strongest teams in Europe, right now. Unlike us, Barcelona are looking very confident and consistent in the league, but I'd be surprised if confidence can compensate for their lack of star power, in comparison to the aforementioned teams. PSG have exactly what we've lacked the most this season - goalscorers. They have a relatively young squad, and they've pretty much monopolized attacking talent that can both score and create. No one wants to play against them, and I'm prepared for a depressing night of football when we give them a prime opportunity to show what they're capable of against highly rated opposition outside of France. I've tried to watch as many of PSG's games as possible this season, and it's frightening how good they are up front. I'm ashamed to admit that their attacking prowess is on a completely different level compared to ours. With that being said, City are looking like winners in their own respect. They have several players who seem to be hitting form this season. Even David Silva, who I had assumed would be past it at this point in his career. As if that wasn't enough, they seem to have inherited that never say die attitude that we know all too well. Traditionally, that has been an indicative mark of a European champion - one that we bore last season.

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:08 pm

Thimmy i see the same thing, again, the only conclusion to me is other teams "respect" and are more afraid of barca's way of playing because they know how quickly they can create chances and score + the messi factor. Barca outrageously dominated la liga for year and damn right humiliated every team in their home stadium at some point, including us (multiple times ffs). So almost instinctively, everything drops deep as they know barca will dominate the ball.

Pep will never coach us, he hates Madrid. but there are other coaches we can try to hire that can get us close to that goal, might not happened at once, but it's a fotball decision the club must make and start hiring coaches specifically for that style. No more man managers, or mental gurus who are only good at motivating the players.

If you look at Napoli's transformation under Sarri you have an example of a coach that complete changed the style of a team within a year or so.

by guest7 Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:45 pm

The players to Zidane "The hardest workers aren't getting play time"

by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:58 pm

I wouldn't read too much into it. It's a sourceless quote allegedly said by a group of nameless, faceless benchwarmers and published on AS.

Even if they did actually told Zidane that, be sure they wouldn't say it within earshot from a carnivorous journalist looking for a few pounds of red meat to write about it.

by VanDeezNuts Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:32 pm

I wouldn’t be sure it’s baseless, we’ve certainly seen how complacent players continue to get playing time while it looks like Ceballos, Asensio et al. Seem to be busting their butt for nothing. So there’s definitely something to it, but I doubt it would come out in this way unless ZZ is losing the dressing room

by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:55 pm

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the youngsters being unhappy. They have every reason to. But as long as Z has the support of the seniors (Ronaldo, Ramos and Marcelo) I think he's safe.

And like I said, a complaint this significant wouldn't reach the journalists even if it were true. Say what you will about Zidane, but he's not a toxic person. Every problem or conflict they have with each other will be sorted out (or not) privately.

by Doc Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:58 pm

Maybe their views are being heard and nothing is being done about it (which is true since the usual guys are starting regardless). Zidane is definitely not a toxic person but these guys, the "benchwarmers", are talented youngsters who wanna play and they are watching the regulars do absolute shit week in week out.

Don't blame anyone of them (if true) for taking a bit more drastic measures.

by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:22 pm

But reaching out to journalists to voice their discontent won't bring them any closer to the pitch or grant them any more playing time. If anything, it might anger Z and force him to condemn them to a lifetime of benchwarming.

by titosantill Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:00 am

when you have a player on the pitch, who affects the shape of the defense just by being around, even without touching the ball, teams will fear you. messi makes loads of plays, he has the ball defenders panic and make sometimes unnecessary adjustments. that brings out the fear, not to mention they still have someone like suarez to contend with as well.

if nobody is making plays on our team, then fear won't exist. passing backwards and sideways isn't what makes defenders panic, the sensible ones just maintain their shape and tough it out. yeah our defense has been bad, but individual brilliance is lacking, and with cristiano out of form, its a sad state of affairs

and that's primarily why the fear y'all talk about isn't there. some sensible individuality from offensive players is needed....note i said offensive players, NOT marcelo forgeting to track back and messing up the whole defensive line

by Mr Nick09 Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:07 am

i knew someone would rightfull talk about the messi factor, obviously it played a massive part in how feared barca is, he might be the best and most dangerous player ever, at least the best i have ever seen imo.

But if you look at the effects positional football had on Bayern and City, then you can see how it impacts teams with normal elite players.

Bayern had always been great in bundi, but they way in which they dominated the league when Pep got there was unprecedented, even for their standards. You see the same effect today with City in England.

i can even though PSG in that mix because Laurent Blanc and his assistant introduced positional football to PSG and they became a vastly superior, way more dominant team in france, even for their standards. You can compare with Carlo's team and the level they reached under Blanc was miles higher. And it carries on today, Emery got there, tried to change the style and it flopped.

by titosantill Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:21 am

look at the individual players those teams have, especially city....i'm not going to talk about bayern i don't watch bundesliga like that, and neither do i watch ligue un . but you have players who can/could beat players and make something happen. prime robben, dangerous on the ball, psg with zlatan, di maria, these are guys who can make moves

guaranteed, if a new coach comes in, makes absolutely no change to the squad, i don't care if its cruyff or sacchi we won't do squat....unless, somehow some bench guy suddenly peaks out the blue. these guys are old mehn lol. no positional play can save some of these guys. and i feel psg and bayern in the last few yrs underachieved, with the breaks they get in bundi and ligue un (with all due respect), i expected more from them continentally in the past

by Mr Nick09 Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:28 am

of course there are changes that need to happen, and i am not arguing that positional football will fix everything. but it's the better way forward, i just see too many evidences of that.

and yea, no questions PSG underperformed. In europe you have to lose painfully before you start winning. Bayern? we obliterated them twice Laughing

. they went as far as they could, 3 CLs in a row, lost to the winner all 3 times.

by Doc Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:08 pm

I take back everything I said, fire his ass as soon as possible.

by VanDeezNuts Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:41 pm

I’m with Doc, I’ve defended ZZ so many times, but this is just getting ridiculous. He still has the same “Ronaldo and Benz are both shit” problem, but he has to do better with the players at hand.

And don’t even get me started on the press conferences...

by Myesyats Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:56 pm

Great man manager and a brilliant tactical mind. I hope he gets offered a renewal. The players are foolish in thinking that they can sabotage ZZ's position in the club by underperforming...

by halamadrid2 Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:02 pm

ZZ is the first coach since forever where there has been total calm in the squad. I wouldn't want to change that at all. If tactics aren't good, he should appoint a tactician as an assistant. We should not underestimate the total calmness he has brought to the team. No doubt he has his issues but like the transfers they can be easily tweaked. We won't realise how good he has been until he gets sacked and we appoint someone who will fight with the players mid season and get sacked not long after

These guys are letting him down, all season our play has followed the same pattern, start the game with excitement, create plentiful of chances, not score and then struggle in the second half as the team slowly loses belief. Look on Sat how Marcelo was getting back to defend, as a captain he should feel ashamed why he has never done that for the whole season. Same with Ronaldo who can't score, Modric and Kroos who have seen their performances fluctuate etc etc. This team lost It's belief and if only we had a striker who could score from his chances we wouldn't ask the impossible from our midfield and defence and leave spaces gaping at the back

The players should feel ashamed, they have contributed to the sorry mess we are in right now. Asensio moans about playing time but when was the last time he made a difference? Benz being molly coddled by ZZ and telling us how he "feels sorry" for Linekear yet has 14 calendar goals in all competitions, Ronaldo wanting a new contract but can't even outrun Godin and can't even score tap ins, Marcelo not being shredded to pieces after his atrocious performances and yet still comes out playong the same way. The only one's performance which get a pass are our midfielders because they have been left to do it all, score, create, defend you name it. They too look like they have mentally checked out. Ramos needs to put Ronaldo and Marcelo in their places and get this team fired up again. Only he has the balls to give these guys a dose of reality check

by sportsczy Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:04 pm

The only way to "sit" guys who are influential in the locker room is to sell them... if you bench them, the locker room immediately becomes toxic. That's one of th big failings of having a galactico team with huge egos and influence.

So if you want to put guys like Marcelo, Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale, etc. on the bench... you're better off just selling them.

As tito mentioned... we pushed our luck 1 season too far. Time is always going to win. When players are around or above 30, they are literally a moment away from losing a step and becoming average. You can take that risk with a couple of players... but we took the risk with 6. It was a very bad risk.

Top 4 is the goal here in La Liga. CL is where we can have ambition.

by futbol_bill Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:31 pm

Ambition!!!

Not to mention other than the starters, but the biggest mistake was not having backups and letting go of Morata and Mariano!!!

by futbol_bill Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:40 pm

We won't win anything this year. We won't get past PSG and we won't get past the semis in Copa. Zidane is finished!!!

Only question is will he jump ship or wait for Flo to can him.

by sportsczy Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:12 am

We lost to PSG and he's out. That much is clear. He needs to make CL semis to still be around while staying top 4 in La Liga.

There are no saviors on the bench in terms of scoring. Our bench sucks in terms of strikers. The only hope is that the regulars somehow suddenly find form.

by Thimmy Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:35 pm

Have you been watching PSG this season, sports? I don't even see a glimmer of hope in the likelihood that we might be able to beat them. Even if CR7 returns to form, their attacking prowess is simply in a league of it's own. Speed, chance creation, finishing, youthful hunger for goals.. they've got it all. And the rest of their team ain't too shabby either. Hopefully, it won't be too much of an embarrasment for us. I suppose we still have our joker in Sergio Ramos.

by sportsczy Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:39 pm

PSG defense and midfield are mental midgets until proven otherwise in CL... Carvajal and Bale MUST murder Kurzawa's side. Kurzawa is utter shit. The biggest thing is to dominate the midfield and I think we can do it.

All for not if we can't *bleep* make an empty net to save our lives though.

I'm not optimistic... how can one be optimistic about any game really. I wouldn't be optimistic against the sisters of mercy team Laughing

But I'm hoping the pride of a champion decides to show up.

by Doc Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:06 pm

I think our only tiny silver lining is that Ronaldo has actually been pretty good in terms of goal scoring in the UCL. So maybe we can count on him there.

by halamadrid2 Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:32 am

We are all clutching at straws if we think Ronaldo can magically turn it on in CL

PSG will batter us

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:18 pm

Our team CL performances of late were nothing short of extraordinary. I don't see why we should not expect them to beat PSG. We clearly have a cup mentality now, and as tough as it is to switch the flip I still believe in them in CL

by Thimmy Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:10 pm

I'm really concerned about how we'll be able to handle their forwards. They've got a young and motivated prodigy in Mbappe, Cavani who's in the form of his life + Neymar who hasn't skipped a beat since his transfer from Barcelona, which feels like it occurred only last month.

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