Re: Sack Zidane thread

[Thimmy]

I'm really concerned about how we'll be able to handle their forwards. They've got a young and motivated prodigy in Mbappe, Cavani who's in the form of his life + Neymar who hasn't skipped a beat since his transfer from Barcelona, which feels like it occurred only last month.

[Mr Nick09]

Neymar owns Carbajal just needs to double team him to avoid 1v1 because Carbajal can't stop him

[elitedam]

Marcelo will be benched, right? Can you imagine him against Mbappe?

[VanDeezNuts]

I was listening to the Managing Madrid podcast and Kiyan Sobhani brought up a scary point- what if last season (where multiple tactical set ups and personnel were used) was ZZ experimenting to find his favorite formation and players. Now that he has found it, he is sticking with it no matter what.

Part of the reason last season was so successful was that we tried certain formations and player combinations until it stopped working then we switched it around. This season we have been the polar opposite - an entire half season playing terribly with the same players and same tactics/formation, and ZZ continues to say we don’t need new players... it’s truly baffling.

[Doc]

Yeah, I listen to them as well. Good insight usually. Zidane insists on playing his players into form which is fine and all if they came back into full Champion mode after a month or 2 of irregular form. We are five months in and we are still shitting the bed, I think even worse than before.

At this point, Zidane is repeating the same thing hoping it gives different results. You know, something that a mad person would do or a delusional one. Make no mistake, my mind is done with Zidane and all he could do is make this season less painful. And the players have totally let him especially Ronaldo and Benzema. 2 men he really put a lot of faith in.

[sportsczy]

We don't have the same depth. You can't try different things if you don't have the people to do it... he doesn't feel that the players on the bench are at a level that, even if they perform, we would be able to compete at the highest level. So, in his mind, he needs to continue gambling on the players, and formation, that could win trophies if it gets itself together.

James, Morata, Pepe, Danilo, Vasquez, Asensio and Kova on the bench is very different than the sisters of mercy we have there right now.

More importantly is that our issue is on the attack.... nothing else is different. We're allowing the same number of goals, possession is the same, chances created are actually slightly higher than last year's pace.... but our strikers have of combined conversion rate of 7% this season as opposed to 18% last season. That's the ONLy statistical line that has changed.

[guest7]

No excuses sportsczy, he has this window market. He has lost his mind, he is becoming too stubborn to manage us.

[sportsczy]

Again, you're assuming he has power over transfers.... which he absolutely does not and this is coming from one of his closest friends. The way it works is that there are 3 votes... Flo, Jose Angel Sanchez and Zidane. Flo can trump everyone if he wants to.

According to his mutual friend, Zidane went with it and let the club buy whoever they wanted this summer. Not now. He doesn't want Spanish kids (like Kepa). He's asked for specific players (one of which was Sanchez). Publicly, he has to say that he loves his squad... but privately, he's not stupid.

It's on Flo right now in terms of transfers.

[Mr Nick09]

People on this board claiming to be insiders are like 0-12

When you look at how much Sanchez is getting paid by United then you understand why Madrid was never interested.

Can Zidane only win with world class players off the bench? Not to mention that you can't sign a playr like Sanchez without offering him a starter role. Who was Zidane going to bench? He could not even convince Mbappe, let alone a veteran like Sanchez. Players know in Madrid when BBC are fit they play, and Zidane supported that.

The idea that he wanted Sanchez is ridiculous at best

[Doc]

Mayarol, Asensio, Kova, Llorente, Ceballos, Nacho, Theo, Casilla are players that make up the usual bench. Kova, Asensio and Ceballos are legit talents that can be very much in a proper rotation, hell, I might say they should be starting to be fair particularly Ceballos.

Theo is definitely an option that is worth looking at for Marcelo who in current form, really cannot be arsed. James didn't really score all that much and apparently (according to Valk), Pepe was injured half of last season. Morata is a huge loss but that is on Zidane. No one else. He didn't trust Morata, he wanted to play Benzema. Danilo was a huge calamity. Not even gonna bother with him.

What I am trying to say is our bench, our team is not 19 points behind in La Liga bad, no fking way.

[sportsczy]

How many of those are goal scorers?  Again, possession, chances, etc.  are all at or better than what we've been for the past 5 years:

Just to put it in even more perspective... we've created 278 chances so far and are projected to end around the 540-550 range at this pace.
2016-2017  522 chances
2015-2016  561 chances
2014-2015  540 chances
2013-2014  586 chances
2012-2013  533 chances
http://www.squawka.com/teams/real-madrid/stats#performance-score#spanish-la-liga#season-2017/2018#862#all-matches#1-18#by-match

Take a look at goals against and the rest as well.

Why change anything other than the scorers....  when that's the only problem according to ALL THE MEASURABLE STATS???  

I don't get the logic of making changes on defense and midfield, when absolutely nothing is broken there...  for what?

What kind of scoring threat do we have on the bench right now? James scored 11 goals for us last year... 8 in La Liga... in limited time. Morata scored 20 with 15 in La Liga. Who do we bring in this year that's obvious?

[Mr Nick09]

if Zidane needed a scorer off the bench, why didn't work this summer to get one? he is the one who elected Mayoral.

And it just comes down to him, it's his fault + believing that Benzema is some kind of wonder striker, and thinking CR would carry him as he did last season.

If he had analyzed last season, he would have seen how much Benzema and CR were already struggling goalwise early in the season, and he would have not taken it for granted that losing Morata and James was ok.

He is an incredibly passive guy on the transfer market, just adding to how shit he is overall

[Doc]

Again, that's on Zidane because, from a fan's perspective since that is all we really have to work with, he said he was fine with the squad as is. It's not like Zidane is a dunce, he knew we needed another scorer and didn't pursue any other target besides Mbappe. It was Mbappe or bust.

Of course, I ain't going full DoC or old man Bill, I still maintain those in charge fked up together but he could have made a campaign to keep them (he didn't).

[sportsczy]

They promised him Mbappe...  they all thought they had Mbappe.  The alternative was Griezmann; but we dropped off once we thought Mbappe was in the bag.

He's not the sporting director.  He has no say or control over who, what or how our scouting department operates.  That's under Flo and, more specifically, Jose Angel Sanchez.  What he can do is give his opinion based on the scouting reports shared with him.  Zidane is not one to express an opinion just for the sake of it.

After Mbappe and Griezmann, it was up to the scouting department to make a transaction on the attack... and since they're all Spanish homers, they chose Mayoral.  Same with all the other purchases... namely, if the top targets fail, they go for young spaniards.

This strategy has nothing to do with Zidane and everything to do with the philosophy of the club recently. They are enamored with collecting young Spanish talent... regardless if that talent is ready or not.

[Mr Nick09]

once again, Zidane is not responsible, this is some amazing defense lol

like when he was shit at Castilla but it was Benitez's fault for deciding how the team would play?

by that logic Morientes' Castilla is shit because of Zidane's direction right?

[Doc]

Well, I ain't in the business of changing men's mind here but I disagree that Zidane had literally nothing to do with the building of the squad. I think he had a real say, a bigger say than let's say, Rafa did. As you like to write, he is a 2 time UCL winner (a feat that matches both Pep and SAF), that usually gives you a say in any club.

[sportsczy]

Jose Angel Sanchez would leave for Man U if Zidane gained power over player personnel decisions.   Flo had absolutely no intention of marginalizing his other protege.

The moment we take that power away from him, Jose Angel Sanchez is likely gone.  

Besides, he's Flo's right hand man:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/jose-mourinho-david-de-gea-real-madrid-transfer-a7574066.html

Real Madrid are very comfortable organizationally right now and it would make complete sense that Flo has absolutely no interest to change the structure.  Blaming the coach and changing him is much easier than upsetting the set hierarchy.

It's been like this forever.  Flo had Valdano, then Jose Angel Sanchez/Mourinho and finally Jose Angel Sanchez as the player personnel guys.  NEVER EVER the manager.  There's no way a manager will ever have that kind of power at Real Madrid under Flo regardless of the name Zidane or success.  The structure is this way so it never becomes over-reliant on one person...  everybody is expendable.

[Mr Nick09]

Everyone that follows Madrid a little understands that Jose and Flo run the club, yet to pretend that the manager, and of all people Zidane, has 0 say in terms of players decision is the height of bullshit.

The idea that Zidane can't go to his boss to suggest signing a CF to back up BBC, not named Sanchez, Griezmann or Mbappe, because it risks upsetting Jose Sanchez is kind of insulting people's intelligence.

i call it like i see it, bullshit.

[The Demon of Carthage]

Well, to be fair, you can't defend Z without insulting people's intelligence because there are no logical arguments out there to defend him with.

So what do you do? You invent BS stories and hope to high heaven there's someone with an IQ inferior to 80 to believe and repeat them.

By the way, since trading gossip without any substantial proof seems to be the trendy thing for Z's defenders to do these day, I would like to give them a taste of their own medicine.

Indeed, I have insiders at Madrid as well (don't ask me how), and they keep telling me that Zidane is an incompetent coach who rode on the back of luck and unbelievably talented players to win silverware and would rather see Madrid burn than bring competition to Benzema.

I also happen to be queen Elizabeth's grandchild and the principal developer of the Linux kernel - but that's a story for another day.

[halamadrid2]

For anyone who doesn't think ZZ has all the power when it comes to transfer

Not long ago Kepa was more or less a step away from joining us only missing the signatures on the contract. Then ZZ made that press conference where he said he doesn't want a goalkeeper, now Kepa is about to renew with Bilbao.

I have no doubt in my mind that we didn't get a striker last season because of ZZ and not Perez or Sanchez

[The Demon of Carthage]

I honestly didn't even need the U-turn in the Kepa transfer to realize Z was in charge.

I already knew he was when I saw the drastic change in Florentino's transfer policy right after Zidane's appointment. It's not rocket science and only those who don't want Zidane to take responsibility for his reckless actions deny it.

[Doc]

Yeah, I thought after the Kepa u-turn, Sports would have realised that Zidane seriously has a say in our transfers. He isn't going and call clubs asking the availability of their players obviously, you got professionals for that shit. However, the man, our 2 time UCL winning manager, definitely has a say in who we go after.

And you know what, we really did not need Kepa.

[Mr Nick09]

"Zidane has no say in transfers" is clearly just another line of defense Sports came up with, i have seen him say worse, no big deal.

[Doc]

So...is this loss Zidane's fault because I really think he truly was let down badly by his players today.

[futbol_bill]

When he made the choice to leave Ronaldo and Bale off squad! YES

[futbol_bill]

So...is this loss Zidane's fault because I really think he truly was let down badly by his players today.

Lol, especially since he gave them that masterful motivational man management speech at half time!

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