Pep Guardiola - King of the Carabao Club

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:21 am

...so?

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Post by Nivash Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:36 am

So in the event that someone breaks through, if your defense is lauded on the team's defensive stats without the actual defensive acumen to back it up, you're not necessarily going to be able to stop them. In Barca's case, the defensive stats are more an indication of midfield/possession ability than defensive prowess.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:16 pm

It's pretty outdated to think in terms of "the defense defenders defend and the attackers attack". In no team is the defense solely responsible for the defensive record or the other way around. It's a full team activity, and while quality matters, managing things like positioning, available spaces, pressing, possession, etc matters a lot more.
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Post by Nivash Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:57 pm

Maybe, but inasmuch as I want the whole team to contribute, I also want my position specialists to be specialists, and if the principal reason for my defensive prowess is the quality of my midfield, that isn't the case.

Similarly to how I can't base the quality of my attack on my attacking stats that come as a result of my defenders scoring headers off of corners.

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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:18 pm

Surely though looking at Man C last season, they didnt have a clue defending, whatever kind it was. Pep teams always will try and press and control possession as a form of defense, but proper tradidional defending, and that high line, no way hes changing. Of course I hope he learns to adapt to be more balanced and prove me wrong, dont think so though.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:18 pm

Surely though looking at Man C last season, they didnt have a clue defending, whatever kind it was. Pep teams always will try and press and control possession as a form of defense, but proper tradidional defending, and that high line, no way hes changing. Of course I hope he learns to adapt to be more balanced and prove me wrong, dont think so though.
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Post by CBarca Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:28 pm

Who cares?

His defensive stats were among the best. Why does it matter about individual quality? As BC said, the team defends as a whole. Having your strategy based more around possession and pressing as a way to defend isn't any less impressive or valuable than traditional defending. It's just a different style.

His team had the best defensive stats, therefore they were one of the defensive teams.
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Post by VanDeezNuts Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:45 pm

So are you saying that ManC's defense wouldn't be better if they had better individual players in defense?

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Post by VanDeezNuts Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:48 pm

And honestly for what they have paid they should really have the best defense no questions asked. They have spent more on defenders than any team in history by a huge margin.

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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:50 pm

Im not keeping up to date sorry Razz But how is Man C having the best defensive stats? I know we concede a lot of goals, soft goals, silly goals, but also to be fair, Pep doesnt make it easy for the team in that sense when hes so focused just on possession and attack. Just see his interviews and the players he buys, its just majority small technical players overall attack minded.

I know Peps style is great and all, but I just feel its too unbalanced for the team.
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Post by Casciavit Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:37 pm

City's defensive issues are blown out of proportion.

Since Jan 15, they conceded 13 goals in the PL. Chelsea conceded 19.

Early defensive woes were down to the players not being good enough at holding the ball in the middle of the pitch. So that meant they had to press more often, which made them more tired. Remember how in the first half of the season, they'd look gassed in the 2nd half?

Add the fact that they lacked individual quality whenever their press got broken, and Bravo who had no confidence it explains their defensive issues.

City's real issue is goalscoring. They need a difference maker, so Sanchez should really be the priority signing.

In fact, with the signing of Bernardo Silva and return of Gundogan who will both immensely help City keep the ball better + signings of Mendy and Walker, City will concede the least goals next season.

Watch this space.
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Post by CBarca Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:06 am

wtf?

When did this become about Man City? I was talking about how Barca consistently had one of the best defensive stats and therefore were one of the best defensive teams in the world. Someone tried to tell me that they weren't one of the best defensive teams in spite of that fact. That's dumb.

Of course City's defense would get better with individual quality. All I'm saying is why does it matter if the individuals themselves aren't that great if as a team they play in a way that leads to them conceding less than everyone else? You defend as a team. I don't care about the defenders if the bottom line is that the team is conceding less than everyone else, like Barca's defense (although Barca had very, very good quality in their defense).

But of course they would get better with better defenders and it's good City's doing that because it's clear that City isn't built like Barca and he can't play the same way, therefore he needs more quality in defense to make up for the fact that he can't monopolize possession like at Barca, nor press as well (latter fact has a lot to do with the playstyle of England).
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Post by CBarca Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:07 am

I'd take you on that bet Casci, IF Spurs buy a decent RB before the end of the window. Overall I agree with all of your points as usual though.
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Post by Kaladin Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:59 am

Pep buying 3 fullbacks when the midfield is 45 yr old Yaya and an ambulance lol. You can prat on about Pep being a perfectionist all you want, but this is some real dumbassery happening right here in relation to transfers. Can't for the dressing room to erupt once Pep bans hot dogs, then suddenly Gundobese comes wheeling in like Professor X on nitro boosters because he caught a whiff.

Watch this space, and don't you dare bump it if they win the Mario Kart 50cc Carling cup
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:18 am

I agree with ES here tbh lol, I think the fullbacks were a necessity but I'm very surprised they are going to persist with Toure as their DM lol.

2nd half of the season stats tend to be very misleading.
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:45 am

Winter is Coming wrote:
Myesyats wrote:- TRY get best full backs possible
-buys Danilo


???????


Yeah... but it seems they didnt try hard enough, even Sergi Roberto is a better fullbacks than Danilo

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Post by chemicalboy99 Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:11 am

Myesyats wrote:
Winter is Coming wrote:
Myesyats wrote:- TRY get best full backs possible
-buys Danilo


???????


Yeah... but it seems they didnt try hard enough, even Sergi Roberto is a better fullbacks than Danilo


Stay off the glue son.

We saw last season at the Etihad how good Sergi Roberto was with his pre assist to Gundogan.

Mangala has more composure on the football.
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Post by chemicalboy99 Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:14 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I agree with ES here tbh lol, I think the fullbacks were a necessity but I'm very surprised they are going to persist with Toure as their DM lol.

2nd half of the season stats tend to be very misleading.


Go on then i'll bite.

Enlighten the forum how stats from the second half of the season tend to be misleading where as stats from the first half of the season are as pure as the driven snow?

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Post by chemicalboy99 Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:18 am

ES wrote:Pep buying 3 fullbacks when the midfield is 45 yr old Yaya and an ambulance lol. You can prat on about Pep being a perfectionist all you want, but this is some real dumbassery happening right here in relation to transfers. Can't for the dressing room to erupt once Pep bans hot dogs, then suddenly Gundobese comes wheeling in like Professor X on nitro boosters because he caught a whiff.

Watch this space, and don't you dare bump it if they win the Mario Kart 50cc Carling cup


Ok kids.

Let this post be an example of the bad things that can happen if you dont stay awake in school.

Other than that, great job.
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:40 am

chemicalboy99 wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
Winter is Coming wrote:


Yeah... but it seems they didnt try hard enough, even Sergi Roberto is a better fullbacks than Danilo


Stay off the glue son.

We saw last season at the Etihad how good Sergi Roberto was with his pre assist to Gundogan.

Mangala has more composure on the football.

Yeah but i've also seen what Danilo can do lol, however in the Mule Leauge any donkey can be a good player so you never know. But at this point lol at Pep because 30M for Danilo is laughable.

RM are the masters of the transfer market. They be selling deadweight for 30M, 80M.... incredible

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:01 am

chemicalboy99 wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I agree with ES here tbh lol, I think the fullbacks were a necessity but I'm very surprised they are going to persist with Toure as their DM lol.

2nd half of the season stats tend to be very misleading.


Go on then i'll bite.

Enlighten the forum how stats from the second half of the season tend to be misleading where as stats from the first half of the season are as pure as the driven snow?



Don't be defensive lol.

I was just saying that stats in the second half of a season rarely carry over to the following season.

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Post by chemicalboy99 Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:44 pm

Myesyats wrote:
chemicalboy99 wrote:
Myesyats wrote:

Yeah... but it seems they didnt try hard enough, even Sergi Roberto is a better fullbacks than Danilo


Stay off the glue son.

We saw last season at the Etihad how good Sergi Roberto was with his pre assist to Gundogan.

Mangala has more composure on the football.

Yeah but i've also seen what Danilo can do lol, however in the Mule Leauge any donkey can be a good player so you never know. But at this point lol at Pep because 30M for Danilo is laughable.



Danilo can play in three positions so he has versatility where as Sergi Roberto plays in one position very badly.
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Post by chemicalboy99 Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:45 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
chemicalboy99 wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I agree with ES here tbh lol, I think the fullbacks were a necessity but I'm very surprised they are going to persist with Toure as their DM lol.

2nd half of the season stats tend to be very misleading.


Go on then i'll bite.

Enlighten the forum how stats from the second half of the season tend to be misleading where as stats from the first half of the season are as pure as the driven snow?



Don't be defensive lol.

I was just saying that stats in the second half of a season rarely carry over to the following season.



Just what i thought. It makes no sense.
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Post by Blue Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:36 pm

Casciavit wrote:City's defensive issues are blown out of proportion.

Since Jan 15, they conceded 13 goals in the PL. Chelsea conceded 19.

Early defensive woes were down to the players not being good enough at holding the ball in the middle of the pitch. So that meant they had to press more often, which made them more tired. Remember how in the first half of the season, they'd look gassed in the 2nd half?

Add the fact that they lacked individual quality whenever their press got broken, and Bravo who had no confidence it explains their defensive issues.

City's real issue is goalscoring. They need a difference maker, so Sanchez should really be the priority signing.

In fact, with the signing of Bernardo Silva and return of Gundogan who will both immensely help City keep the ball better + signings of Mendy and Walker, City will concede the least goals next season.

Watch this space.


Not a good supporting argument tbh.

Chelsea were pretty bad defensively in the second half of the season, we actually conceded 21 goals in 17 games since Jan 14. That is freaking terrible.
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:49 pm

chemicalboy99 wrote:
Danilo can play in three positions so he has versatility where as Sergi Roberto plays in one position very badly.

what rofl

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Post by BarcaLearning Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:48 pm

Not sure if Yaya will be first choice DM, but if so and he manages it, why not? Yaya is so underrated I think, he has weaknesses, but his strengths more than make up for it, dont forget last season what he went through and came back to win his place back, u can argue circumstances, but still thats what happened. Certainly prefer him to any other choice we have apart from Fernandinho.

If it really happens though goes to show Pep is going for all out attack and no defense Very Happy
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