Re: Pep Guardiola - King of the Carabao Club

by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:15 pm

What signing flopped?
De Bruyne is amazing. Sané has been really amazing. Jesus will be amazing. Sterling is still far, far better than Jordan Ibe, contrary to what Liverpool fans would have had us believe.

The ones that flopped were Bravo and Stones. Bravo has been replaced, and Stones is young and one year should now be plenty time to get him to adapt to Pep's style.

And now:
Bernardo is amazing. Mendy is amazing. Walker is arguably the best English right back and has been starting for Spurs, who were the best defensive team of PL in the last couple of years.

If this goes wrong, it's not because the players aren't good enough.
The players are fantastic.

If it goes wrong, it is because Pep has flopped.

by danyjr Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:17 pm

Onyx wrote:Not really impressed with a lot of City's signings. Unlimited amount of money to spend and the majority is spent on costly young players with high potential. They need to buy more established world class players that actually fit Pep's system.

Alexis would be a good start. Martinez/Boateng for CB. Should have also tried harder to get Alves in.

Also think Pep needs to go all out and stick with what made him successful in the first place. 'Adapting' is always going to make the system weaker. Hype aside, a player like Banega would be a lot more useful in Pep's system than De Bruyne.

As for the money spent, 200m would have been considered a lot 5-6 years ago, but it's probably the equivalent of 100m nowadays imo.

I don't think he wanted to adapt, but that he had to.

After all his record against EPL teams was poor even with when he was at Barça.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:21 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:What signing flopped?
De Bruyne is amazing. Sané has been really amazing. Jesus will be amazing. Sterling is still far, far better than Jordan Ibe, contrary to what Liverpool fans would have had us believe.

The ones that flopped were Bravo and Stones. Bravo has been replaced, and Stones is young and one year should now be plenty time to get him to adapt to Pep's style.

And now:
Bernardo is amazing. Mendy is amazing. Walker is arguably the best English right back and has been starting for Spurs, who were the best defensive team of PL in the last couple of years.

If this goes wrong, it's not because the players aren't good enough.
The players are fantastic.

If it goes wrong, it is because Pep has flopped.

I dunno you tell me, all i read on here during last season that every signing was a flop.

People will deny it now, to fit their agendas knowing the search engine sucks.

Also Sterling wasn't a Pep signing and neither was De Bruyne.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:28 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:What signing flopped?
De Bruyne is amazing. Sané has been really amazing. Jesus will be amazing. Sterling is still far, far better than Jordan Ibe, contrary to what Liverpool fans would have had us believe.

The ones that flopped were Bravo and Stones. Bravo has been replaced, and Stones is young and one year should now be plenty time to get him to adapt to Pep's style.

And now:
Bernardo is amazing. Mendy is amazing. Walker is arguably the best English right back and has been starting for Spurs, who were the best defensive team of PL in the last couple of years.

If this goes wrong, it's not because the players aren't good enough.
The players are fantastic.

If it goes wrong, it is because Pep has flopped.

I dunno you tell me, all i read on here during last season that every signing was a flop.

People will deny it now, to fit their agendas knowing the search engine sucks.

Also Sterling wasn't a Pep signing and neither was De Bruyne.

Don't argue against me with what 'has been said on here' about Pep.
You know very well I'm a huge Pep fan and I have my own expectations of his performance.

And my expectation is that he should be able to win the league easily. If he doesn't he has come short of my expectation.

He already came short last season, but they did play some great stuff nonetheless so whatever people wrote, that was not me.

But he failed to get the balance right. For me, the genius about Pep is that his hugely attacking style and formations work so well defensively too. He didn't manage to achieve that so far and if he doesn't next season either, it can't be blamed on the players.
It's his job as coach to get it done, with the players he have, and he has the most investment in players at his disposal in football history.

NO EXCUSES.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:30 pm

Both De Bruyne and Sterling were Pep signings. He knew he was going there in summer '15 already, the City board knew it, and both players were also heavily linked with Bayern in the same window Laughing

by danyjr Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:30 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:He crashes out of CL against Monaco? Hey let's buy 2 of their best players.

Probably learnt that in Bayern though Laughing

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:31 pm

danyjr wrote:
I'm not a fan of Mourinho so I have no reason to defend him. They are both trying to buy success.

Having said that United's squad is far worse than City's. If you don't agree with that then there will be no point in discussing further.

Never really argued that

danyjr wrote:City have the best squad in EPL, as they did last year.

In some aspects yes, but not completely. Their fullbacks last year and for many years have been garbage, Yaya was forced to play DM which tells it's own story, their CBs are a well noted weakness and most people will tell you their finishing was a lot worse than Spurs or Chelsea last year.

danyjr wrote:In fact Guardiola's decision not to play Agüero for a few games was a direct reason why City went out of the title race because they dropped quite a few points on those critical matches. I also think Gündoğan's injury played a role, because he was on form for City when he was playing but that is just luck; City's squad are strong enough to cover for such injuries.

Incorrect, in fact City had much better results when he didn't play. Aguero last year was very disappointed and probably has the most misleading goalscoring record in the history of football last year.

Clearly they don't have the squad to cover for Gundogan as they struggled without him for a long time.

danyjr wrote:Their defence was shaky last season and he has now spent around quarter of a billion to strengthen the defence alone. That should leave no excuses. Don't tell me Chelsea's defence is special. Azpilicuta, Alonso and David Luiz are not special in any way. They just had a good coach who saw what was wrong and what was right with them and fixed it early on in the season after seeing how it would otherwise leak. Guardiola stubbornly didn't, kept insisting on playing Bravo only to replace him the next year

Chelsea's defense is another league lol, Cahill, Azpilicueta and Luiz is streets ahead of any CB pairing or trio City has. Besides Defending is a team game and quite clearly the organisation is streets head of City's with or without Pep.

Not to mention the cover they get from Matic and Kante, meanwhile City is being covered by Yaya Toure.

I don't know what City could have done to change anything really, they just didn't have the defensive personnel in midfield or defence to change anything like Chelsea did also he didn't really have a choice with Bravo once he made that decision as they had nobody else of note.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:35 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Both De Bruyne and Sterling were Pep signings. He knew he was going there in summer '15 already, the City board knew it, and both players were also heavily linked with Bayern in the same window

Well that's just nonsense lol and complete conjecture on your part.

I'm not exactly the position to say it either as they would be considered good signings but there's evidence they are his signings so he doesn't get credit for them.

by RealGunner Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:36 pm

This is so beautiful man.

This is like monday night wars again

by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:43 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:Both De Bruyne and Sterling were Pep signings. He knew he was going there in summer '15 already, the City board knew it, and both players were also heavily linked with Bayern in the same window

Well that's just nonsense lol and complete conjecture on your part.

I'm not exactly the position to say it either as they would be considered good signings but there's evidence they are his signings so he doesn't get credit for them.

It's not nonsense. It's pretty clear that he had made up his mind in summer '15 and any substantial signings that his buddies made surely were talked about with him.
At the very least, all signings were made with Pep in mind.
He also would have wanted both players at Bayern, but we didn't want to pay the wages. It was a very curious situation.

Besides it doesn't matter. They are very good players, and they are at his disposal.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:43 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:What signing flopped?
De Bruyne is amazing. Sané has been really amazing. Jesus will be amazing. Sterling is still far, far better than Jordan Ibe, contrary to what Liverpool fans would have had us believe.

The ones that flopped were Bravo and Stones. Bravo has been replaced, and Stones is young and one year should now be plenty time to get him to adapt to Pep's style.

And now:
Bernardo is amazing. Mendy is amazing. Walker is arguably the best English right back and has been starting for Spurs, who were the best defensive team of PL in the last couple of years.

If this goes wrong, it's not because the players aren't good enough.
The players are fantastic.

If it goes wrong, it is because Pep has flopped.

I dunno you tell me, all i read on here during last season that every signing was a flop.

People will deny it now, to fit their agendas knowing the search engine sucks.

Also Sterling wasn't a Pep signing and neither was De Bruyne.

Don't argue against me with what 'has been said on here' about Pep.
You know very well I'm a huge Pep fan and I have my own expectations of his performance.

And my expectation is that he should be able to win the league easily. If he doesn't he has come short of my expectation.

He already came short last season, but they did play some great stuff nonetheless so whatever people wrote, that was not me.

But he failed to get the balance right. For me, the genius about Pep is that his hugely attacking style and formations work so well defensively too. He didn't manage to achieve that so far and if he doesn't next season either, it can't be blamed on the players.
It's his job as coach to get it done, with the players he have, and he has the most investment in players at his disposal in football history.

NO EXCUSES.

I agree that he should, like i said he should've done last year. I said on MANY occasions ( it's almost like people just read what they want to, not you btw) that i feel that he flopped and underperformed and specifically mentioned games i watched where i felt like he performed badly.

I just really fail to see how signing some fullbacks changes anything substantially. The reaction on here is not really worthy of signings made.

As CB says you looking at the money spent and not what has been signed, also i couldn't care less about the money as it means nothing to me.

It's just a number, especially in this day and age when 3 of their supposed rivals have spent 50m+ ( some significantly more) on strikers it becomes a very meaningless argument.

I look at what has been signed and what will add to the team, i'm not a stockholder i couldn't care less and that goes for every team.

I'm sure the likes of Mendy, Walker and the keeper will have a positive impact but it doesn't outweigh the impact Lacazette, Morata and Lukaku will have for their respective teams.

Of course we expect Bernado Silva ( also their cheapest signing i think lol) to have that sort of impact but is that really enough to garner this level of reaction? not for me.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:45 pm

We don't actually disagree Mole, it's just you being your usual know-it-all contrarian self who can't admit that others are right too. :whistle:

by danyjr Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:47 pm

You might disagree but I think the only team in EPL with better defence than City are Spurs (and with Walker having joined City that changes) and yet the quality in City's squad is far higher in other areas that you'd still expect them to better Spurs.

I won't talk about Chelsea's defence because a year ago everyone in this forum would have called them shit. How times change.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Chelsea's defense is another league lol, Cahill, Azpilicueta and Luiz is streets ahead of any CB pairing or trio City has. Besides Defending is a team game and quite clearly the organisation is streets head of City's with or without Pep.

Not to mention the cover they get from Matic and Kante, meanwhile City is being covered by Yaya Toure.

I don't know what City could have done to change anything really, they just didn't have the defensive personnel in midfield or defence to change anything like Chelsea did also he didn't really have a choice with Bravo once he made that decision as they had nobody else of note.

Is that not the job of the coach to fix exactly that? Conte was the faults and he fixed it after getting thrashed by Arsenal. Guardiola saw the faults but insisted on playing his way. And the results are history for everyone to see.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:53 pm

City's defence is awful lol, or was i don't know how much of an impact Walker/Mendy will have yet obviously.

Their only good CB is Kompany and he spends more time on Match of the Day than he does playing football.

Also yes it is down to the coach to fix that, difference is Chelsea actually have the personnel to be a good defensive unit not just in the defence but the midfield in front of it.

City simply did not, give Conte those City defensive options and he'd probably have a heart attack.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:55 pm

Also the whole make excuses thing is a bit premature anyway, seeing as i really do doubt they are done buying players tbh.

by Onyx Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:55 pm

danyjr wrote:
Onyx wrote:Not really impressed with a lot of City's signings. Unlimited amount of money to spend and the majority is spent on costly young players with high potential. They need to buy more established world class players that actually fit Pep's system.

Alexis would be a good start. Martinez/Boateng for CB. Should have also tried harder to get Alves in.

Also think Pep needs to go all out and stick with what made him successful in the first place. 'Adapting' is always going to make the system weaker. Hype aside, a player like Banega would be a lot more useful in Pep's system than De Bruyne.

As for the money spent, 200m would have been considered a lot 5-6 years ago, but it's probably the equivalent of 100m nowadays imo.

I don't think he wanted to adapt, but that he had to.

After all his record against EPL teams was poor even with when he was at Barça.

Yeh I mean there's nothing wrong with adapting to the style of the league in small ways. However the way City play doesn't remind me of Barca. Obviously it's hard to replicate that since the quality of players he has now are nowhere near the level he had at Barca. However it's possible to come close to it if he finds players that possess the same qualities.

A ball winning DM with 2 CAMs and 2 wide wingers isn't exactly ideal. All of it can be changed with a more ruthless approach when it comes to transfers imo. And I think he'd rather adapt than sell key figures who don't fit the style.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:59 pm

There's no point him trying to replicate Barca it's impossible.

He didn't try with Bayern either, people will say he did but Barca didn't play with two wingers a SS and a CF lol and Barca certainly didn't use an Arturo Vidal.

He's a different coach than he was at Barca, he implements things differently and wants a different type of player.

by Onyx Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:10 pm

That's basically my point really. The greatest model of his philosophy is what he did at Barca. If he's going to adapt then it's always going be a weakened version of that model. There's certain fundamentals that have changed that shouldn't have imo.

by halamadrid2 Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:42 am

Pep Guardiola - King of the Carabao Club - Page 3 Fb_img_1500977266421-jpg

#NoExcuses

by BarcaLearning Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:12 pm

Ive known for a long while now that Pep doesnt have a clue or just doesnt care much for defending, look at the signings, pretty much all attacking minded, same old suicide and imbalanced style. Will be hugely entertaining to watch, I hope thats enough to win trophies, but I doubt it without any improvement in defense.

by CBarca Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:01 pm

Barca were consistently one of the best defenses in the world during Pep's tenure lmao

by Casciavit Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:11 pm

Pep: "I'd like to pay less. For the club, for everybody. But the market is the market. The club didn't invest in full-backs in the last 6, 7 years and all were 31 or 32. We needed to make the squad younger and try to get the best full-backs possible."