Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Warrior Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:28 pm

Nick please explain to us Very Happy

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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by sportsczy Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:31 pm

You are responsible for it...  25% though, not 100%.  But in most (if not all) cases, the club doesn't try and collect because who has that kind of money.  It's a policy at Real Madrid too.

At Real Madrid, that's why Perez put in a minimum net worth rule for those running for president...  it doesn't mean anything if you have nothing to lose.  You can just declare bankruptcy.  But if you're very wealthy, it's a concern.

In Bartomeu's case, I assume he would just file for bk. If it's a real concern, I wonder how much cash he's got stashed somewhere lool
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Warrior Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:38 pm

Thanks man

Wtf tho, i follow football since 15 years, was not aware of that. Probably because Real/Barca were doing relatively fine all this time scratch
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:48 pm

what 25%? 25% of what exactly? And how is it measured? How is it regulated? This does not make sense at all.

Give us some details please, sports, you're a finance guy aren't you? Honestly I call BS.


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:48 pm

apologies for the typos, new phone needs to be educated...

And yes, as Sports said, personal liability is a thing for Socios owned clubs who have to put up their personal wealth and that of their board of directors at stake. This is to safeguard the club against mismanagement because obviously you don't want to lose your own money by being frivolous.

The way that Barto tries to manipulate the balance sheet with bogus deals goes beyond a typical accounting exercise. Barto can get sued by Socios if he has mismanaged the club and created losses due to his management.

Again, this is specific to just Madrid, Barca and Athletic Bilbao in Spain because they are still owned by their Socios and thus the rules are a bit different.
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:49 pm

So he's personally liable if he made losses "frivolously"? That's different than being liable for making losses, no
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:51 pm

But then, if he made fraudulent and frivolous accounting stuff and  made the club lose money this way, why would that go away if he resigns later, and not now, or finishes his term?
He's going to sell Suarez and then it's ok? If he defrauded the club, selling a player to get money back is not going to cut it is it

Sounds like complete nonsense to me, as a reason why he "can't resign"
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:54 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:what 25%? 25% of what exactly? And how is it measured? This does not make sense at all.

Give us some details please, sports, you're a finance guy aren't you? Honestly I call BS.
I can't speak for barca specifically, but for madrid for example, you have to put up 15% of the budget of the club (you and your board, since it's a package deal). For a club like madrid, if the budget is 750-800 millions, you need to put up 110-120 millions as personal guarantee.

If you mismanage the club, the losses will be taken from that guarantee. Barcelona most certainly has this type of law as well
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:59 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:But then, if he made fraudulent and frivolous accounting stuff and  made the club lose money this way, why would that go away if he resigns later, and not now, or finishes his term?
He's going to sell Suarez and then it's ok? If he defrauded the club, selling a player to get money back is not going to cut it is it

Sounds like complete nonsense to me, as a reason why he "can't resign"
My argument is that Bartolomeu is looking for another financial exercise to "clean things up". If you make him resign and he is found to have caused losses to the club during his tenure, his deposit will be at risk
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:59 pm

Ok.. but how do you define "mismanage"?
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:00 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Ok.. but how do you define "mismanage"?
well, let's say you increase the debt of the club during your tenure, i think that would be an example of you mismanaging things. Debt is the great equalizer
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:04 am

Hmm, ok. Interesting. But still , there's so many questions.

for example, in a time where there's no interest, isn't taking on debt financially prudent at times?

What about if you make an investment. like a new stadium during your tenure?

Of course you will have increased the debt, but surely you won't be financially responsible for mismanagement

Is it maybe connected to this 'wage bill to revenue ratio' rule Barca seem to have? I remember reading that the wage bill can't rise to more than 60% as per the Barca club regulations or the board faces some repercussions, or something like that. Maybe there are more rules like that.

@Collblanc pls explain


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:05 am

I know, also, it may not just be mismanagement. COVID is a huge impact to the balance sheet of everyclub, that is also a reason. i just found this article, because this is a real issue for Barto

https://www.culemania.com/palco/junta-bartomeu-se-expone-avalar-si-cierra-curso-con-perdidas_348012_102.html

edit: For big projects that have to be financed like a stadium, It has to be approved by vote, by the socios due to the massive amount.  That's what we did for our stadium, that i believe , takes personal liability away.

The problem is let's say, you take debt to sign Griezmann because you want to be a great president, and you count on making sales to finance it, you dont need the fans to approve that, but you become liable.
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by sportsczy Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:12 am

@Hans...  all socios own a share of the club.  You must be a socio to become the president.  As the president or board member though, you're asked to guarantee your decisions with a financial guarantee.

To me, it's sound. Very similar to private equity.

A similar setup is a venture fund.  Let's say the fund is 100 million...  the management and group setting up the fund are general partners while the silent investors are limited partners.  The general partners typically need to put up 20% of the fund, or 20 million in this case.  Very vanilla setup of course.  It gets more complicated.  But you get the concept.
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:14 am

So basically, Barca can't persuade Messi to stay as the price for that, convincing a resignation of the board, is nigh impossible due to the board's liability and implications in the current financial situation, aggravated by CoVid (which is complete circumstantial and not the board's fault..)

and what's more, ex negativo, Bartomeu would PERSONALLY benefit financially from selling Messi as that would erase the losses he's liable for

rofl rofl

hilarious catch-22 of a thorough insitutional dysfunction
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:17 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:So basically, Barca can't persuade Messi to stay as the price for that, convincing a resignation of the board, is nigh impossible due to the board's liability and implications in the current financial situation, aggravated by CoVid (which is complete circumstantial and not the board's fault..)

and what's more, ex negativo, Bartomeu would PERSONALLY benefit financially from selling Messi as that would erase the losses he's liable for

rofl rofl

hilarious catch-22 of a thorough insitutional dysfunction
you got this damn right, it's a next level clusterfuck
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:So how is it possible this guy is still president on this evening

how is it possible he didn't have to go today
he doesn't even need to go

he just needs to say "If I'm the issue I'll step aside" and put the ball back on Messi's court, call his bluff.
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by futbol_bill Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:56 pm

I think you guys have underestimated the amount of fraud at Barcelona. They have rumors for years about Barcelona not meeting the basic rule of expenses (mostly player salary) must be lower than income. With rather open fraud in cases like the Neymar purchase, it will be no surprise to find there is rampant fraud and hidden expenses throughout their finances. The amount of covid related income loss, at this point would be relatively small, maybe 20 - 30M as a high estimate, so blaming problems on Covid is a non starter. Covid though could impact severely the financial picture for upcoming season, but Fart’s resignation would remove his financial obligations for upcoming season. All the more reason to believe his refusal to step down is to cover up his fraud related activities.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:55 pm

We can argue that the happiest man in Barcelona right now is Barto. He is only a few months away from ending his tenure at Barca, he won everything so he can look forward to leaving with no financial loss.

Messi leaving takes some 80 millions in gross wages off Barca’s books + a potential 100 mil+ transfer fee. In COVID times these are only good news. Only downside is having to deal with some nut jobs in Barca and online. But I’m sure he and his bord value getting their 100+ mil deposit back.

Barto must be really happy right now
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:35 pm

Bart has to renew the sponsorship agreements soon and both will be worse off without Messi's star power. Granted, he could punt that to the next president and let him handle it.

If Bart didn't care about re-election I agree he could be happy, but he does and I'm sure he doesn't want to be remembered as another Gaspart (as he surely will).
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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:16 pm

What is soon? I’m pretty sure he knows that Messi leaving under his reign, means he is also done.
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:55 pm

I read within a year, elections are 6-9 months away so he could be in charge of that
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Myesyats Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:59 am

16,250 votes needed for the motion of no confidence to go through (deadline today)

one source is saying they have 20,000 signatures already, other sources are sure the threshold has been/will be surpassed too
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Post by danyjr Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:14 am

Yesterday was the final day for collecting signatures.

I went and signed it too actually Laughing y'all owe me a beer.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:22 am

Are you a socio? Do you live in Catalonia? Who can vote and why?
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Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries." - Page 2 Empty Re: Vives (Barca spokesperson): "Those demanding Bartomeu to resign on twitter are not from Catalonia, but from other countries."

Post by Myesyats Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:27 am

@danyjr wrote:Yesterday was the final day for collecting signatures.

I went and signed it too actually Laughing y'all owe me a beer.

you sure?

https://twitter.com/MesQueUnaMocio

according to them there's still ~2h left
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