Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

by Warrior Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:53 pm

Remember the good ol days when i said "De Sciglio is a scrub, he will only drag us down. He cannot defend and is average at supporting the attacks" ?

I say good ol days because at the time he wasn't a Juve player yet. Now we're doomed with him. Great RB, much appreciated that he's here Rolling Eyes

C- player

Agreed 100% with GIGI

by rincon Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:33 am

It's the supercup at the end of preseason. The team is in transition, we are bound to have hiccups. This will help wake everyone up for next week.

The summer has been very good. It's normal that some of our players decline or simply lose the extra motivation that wins you games. No team can win forever and when the end of these cycles come the management has to lay the ground work for another successful team. And they did that.

None of the signings started today, with time and motivation we'll get there.

Pjanic hasn't completely forgotten how to play football, he will be back. As will the others.

by DeviAngel Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:41 am

juve_gigi wrote:So is our season over now? Asking for a friend.

That was quick though. I thought our season was longer than one meaningless game in the middle of the summer.

+1

by Luca Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:42 am

I know my comments will be seen as kneejerk reactions but I do stand by them. I don't believe in a midfield two of Pjanic and Khedira. I think it will get us through 60-75% of our matches in Serie A but I don't like it. I think it reduces the effectiveness of both players.

I think too many times last season we won on talent alone which is a far cry from Conte's Juventus which would outwork a team, or Allegri's first season at Juventus which combined the best of both worlds and the team had some real fluidity to its play.

But anyways, its not a super important match, nor is it defining in anyway. Send in Spinazzola and Matuidi/someone else and lets get this season started on a positive note.

by DeviAngel Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:42 am

Add Bernardeschi and Costa in this starting team and we would have scored 2 more goals... Time is needed, we are a great team we just lack CM and RB, there's still time.

by rincon Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:50 am

Remember that Khedira-Pjanic still embarrassed Lazio last February. I also don't love it, but it's not this terrible. We can't base it only on this game when they did very well last season.

I'm not a fan of a midfield 2 in general. If we play a 2, then I prefer more "midfield" types on wide roles to contribute. So if we have Barzagli then we cannot have Cuadrado. I would have loved Bernardeschi there to build up play. Or of we have De Sciglio, then it's ok to have a more direct winger.

Having Barzagli-Cuadrado on one side while having Mandzukic on the other is just too limiting. Needs more player able to link up better and pass the ball well.

Anyway, the team will find solutions. The main thing lacking wasn't tactical variations or talent. It was WORK. Having the will to go hard and win. The team just needs to get in the mood.

The first 15min and the last 20 is how we should always play.

by juve_gigi Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:22 am

It's not the double pivot that is the problem it's the players executing the 4-2-3-1. Bonucci wasn't the catalyst for us to switch formations last year. He's actually much more effective in a 3 man backline as a sweeper.

The key to the 4-2-3-1 is the wingers and to a lesser extent the fullbacks. When you have Mandzukic and Cuadrado as your wingers and Barzagli as one of your fullbacks you know you are gonna have problems in the game and the chance of winning is greatly diminished.

There is a reason we spent $90 million on Costa and Bernardeschi. They are the key to success in this formation. Also we need a proper fullback. De Sciglio needs to be rebuilt brick by brick because of his mishandling at the hands of Milan. He will need at least 4 months to learn how to play right back properly again. I also think we still need another right back as I'm not sold on Lichtsteiner, not even as a backup. If Spinazzola is that guy then that's great. If not then we need to pay up and get Cancelo.

As for Keita he will be a major upgrade on Mandzukic as a winger as Mandzukic was only placed there because we lacked any other options when we switched formations. If Keita comes then we can get rid of Cuadrado and Mandzukic can go back to being a striker and backup Higuain.

It will take a few games to integrate all the new players into the team. Including the new purchases still to come. Luckily for us our schedule is weak for the first couple of months. We don't even play Roma, Napoli or Inter until December. Which is great for the end of this year but not so great when we have to play them in April and May.

I can't wait to see Costa, Bernardeschi and Matuidi in the lineup as well as a proper right back.

Forza Juve per sempre!!

by Warrior Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:03 pm

Pjanic offered a 2/10 performance yesterday. He was out of his mind and needs to wake up. I also want to understand why Marchisio is not a starter anymore, maybe someone can give me a tip ?

In the first post of the thread i said "without bias of preference PJANIC-KHEDIRA". Well with bias of preference, i think Pjanic-Marchisio should form the double pivot.

Sami Khedira #6, i'd swap him for Krychowiak, William Carvalho, Francis Coquelin, guys like that... Not world-class anymore, he needs everybody around him to have a good day, otherwise he looks completely useless. Against Lazio he should have stayed home and save his energy for other things.

At least Pjanic makes an effort in defensive work.

by salmano9 Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:25 pm

How would we play 433 with Dybala in the system? As a false 9? Or RW/CAM? (A Messi role?)

Would it look like something this?

Costa/Bernardeschi/(Keita)/Mandzukic-Higuain-Dybala

Pjanic-Marchisio-Khedira/Matuidi
-------

With Bentancur and Sturaro, we have subs for each position in the center, so this is quite possible to do.

The only problem is the it leaves more of our wingers on the bench. I haven't included Cuadrado and Pjaca in the formation above as well.

Just like last season changing the system from a 352 to 442/4231, I think that Allegri would be inclined to change the system IF our wingers have been performing well in a 433 OR if Dybala is unfit.

by rincon Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:30 pm

Dybala is already on two goals. I think our boy will have a great season. Once Berna and Costa are integrated (and the midfield is clicking) Dybala should be more free.

by jetvancake Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:18 pm

I'll put money on Marchisio replacing Khedira as starter by week 3.

/edit: or Matuidi /

by salmano9 Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:41 pm

19:39 - JUVE LEFT ALLIANZ STADIUM - Juventus has just left the Allianz Stadium to retire. Tomorrow, Massimiliano Allegri will confirm the 4-2-3-1: into space space at Buffon. Defending on the right should play De Sciglio, in the middle of Barzagli and Chiellini space, while Alex Sandro will be on the left. In midfield it will touch Khedira and Pjanic. In the attack behind Higuain there will be Douglas Costa, Dybala and Mandzukic.

Juventus (4-2-3-1): Buffon; De Sciglio, Barzagli, Chiellini, Alex Sandro; Khedira, Pjanic; Douglas Costa, Dybala, Mandzukic, Higuain

by Warrior Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:22 am

Winger Mandzukic, again
Scrublio starting, bleep me

Rest of the squad i'm cool, i'll predict a 3-0 win for the sake of it

by juvealbanian Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:29 am

Where the hell are we going to play Mandzo if not as a winger? He won't take Higuain's position ever. We should have sold him and brought someone like Keita who can play on wing and centrally while not being technically mediocre.I would love to see Mandzo keep doing good there but I doubt he'll repeat last season.

And looks like the hate for De Sciglio has begun without him playing his first Serie A match with us.He'll improve and do good , he just needs time.Plus we can use Cuadrado there if De Sciglio doesn't work as expected.

Can't wait to see us today...hopefully with the new reinforcements on the wings we finally go all offensive and smash our opponents.

by salmano9 Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:53 pm

11:10 - ALLEGRI READY CONFIRMING 4-2-3-1 - Juventus is retiring at Leinì and is preparing for the match against Cagliari. Massimiliano Allegri, today, will confirm the 4-2-3-1: at the door will play Buffon. In defense on the space bands at Lichtsteiner and Alex Sandro, in the middle next to Chiellini there will be Rugani. While midfield Marchisio is favorite on Pjanic. In attack he should touch Cuadrado, Dybala, Mandzukic and Higuain. Meanwhile Turin is sunny and hot, the temperature is 24 degrees.

Juventus (4-2-3-1): Buffon; Lichtsteiner, Rugani, Chiellini, Alex Sandro; Marchisio, Pjanic; Cuadrado, Dybala, Mandzukic; Higuain;
===
Better! Finally Rugani and Claudio starting!

by salmano9 Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:45 pm

We're playing bad...

by Warrior Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:48 pm

Killing their energy, we are playing conservative.

That delayed penalty was absolute bs.

DYBALAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

by Luca Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:55 pm

Rugani looking solid. Misplaced a couple passes but also made a couple very strong interventions. I really like his composure as a defender.

Sandro and Higuain having very disappointing games so far.

Marchisio and Pjanic make more sense as a double pivot than Khedira and Pjanic ever will.

by juve_gigi Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm

So every one of our new players is on the bench. Even last year's team without Bonucci and Alves can beat the scrubs of Serie A.

Bring on Costa and Bernardeschi. Let's get this to 4-0.

by salmano9 Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:43 pm

Agnelli looks bored with this Juve lol

by rincon Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:50 pm

Very dominant, completely outmatched Cagliari.

by juve_gigi Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:53 pm

So everyone freaked out about a meaningless game in August. We play none of our new players and still walk over the Serie A fodder.

Wait until Costa and Bernardeschi actually start playing. The 4-2-3-1 will look much different. Add Matuidi and a proper right back and we are set for another great year.

And Rugani will be a star. In 2 years time everyone will be forgetting about Bonucci. Add Caldara and our future CB pairing is set for the next decade.

Forza Juve!!!

by Warrior Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:58 pm

Great first match to start the season.

by Luca Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:00 pm

The Lazio game concern was very valid. We got dominated in every area of the field, every single area. I don't care if you're playing a friendly against a team from Cyprus or a Super cup final against Lazio, that was a disgustingly bad match from us. I'm not sure how this match erases that one.

That's like saying, eh we smashed Cagliari, I told you the CL final loss against Real was a fluke.

Doesn't really make sense now does it? Just like bringing up the match now that Juventus won convincingly Laughing

Anyways, the discussion is meaningless. We played a great match in every area today.

by lucianomoggi Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:47 pm

Panic is not cool
Concern is cool

by salmano9 Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:11 pm

Luca wrote:The Lazio game concern was very valid. We got dominated in every area of the field, every single area. I don't care if you're playing a friendly against a team from Cyprus or a Super cup final against Lazio, that was a disgustingly bad match from us. I'm not sure how this match erases that one.

That's like saying, eh we smashed Cagliari, I told you the CL final loss against Real was a fluke.

Doesn't really make sense now does it? Just like bringing up the match now that Juventus won convincingly

Anyways, the discussion is meaningless. We played a great match in every area today.

If Cagliari was say Lazio today, we still would have drawn/lost the game. The team is unconvincing me, and I think that a 2 man midfield is much more stable. We played 4141 when Matuidi came in, but the players didn't seem to be used to the system. Pjanic played in the Regista role behind Matuidi and Khedira.

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