Is Ronaldo de Lima (R9) considered a Barcelona legend by the Barcelona fans and world football?

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Post by BarcaLearning Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:13 pm

sportsczy wrote:Francescoli and Drogba are considered OM legends although they only stayed one year... but they achieved legendary things in that one year.  

OM won Ligue 1 and were CL semifinalists... and Francescoli was magnificent.  Dream stuff.  Starting 11 was great:  Huard, Amoros, Forster, Mozer, Di Meco, Sauzée, Deschamps, Tigana (Germain), Waddle, Papin, Francescoli.

Drogba took OM to the Europa final in 2003-2004 and scored 11 goals in Europe for the club that season.  He had 37 goals and 10 assists or something like that for OM.  He single-handedly carried the club in Europa,

To me, it's about the memories and emotions a player creates.  Some players don't do anything earth shattering in one specific season...  but build up a career that is legendary at a club.  Others have an incredible impact for a season or two...  short, but their stay will never leave the memories of the fans.  Of course, players that do both take the elite legendary status.

So for me, R9 has to be a Barca legend... not like Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, etc obviously... but still a legend.  Barcelona was 2nd in La Liga, won spanish supercup, won Europa and won CDR.  He was BY FAR the best player on the team.  

The shame of it was that Barca replaced R9 with Rivaldo.  Imagine if they had stayed together... good for Madrid but what a team that would have been.

Barca didn't win anything in 1995-1996 btw.  3rd in La Liga, CDR finalist and Europa semis... the year before R9 arrived.

I read somewhere that Barca lost the title on the last day of that season too, what bad luck, if they did win it it would have been a perfect season then Very Happy

Must have been amazing to watch him live or even just on TV too.... the way he just seems like an alien playing among little earthlings Very Happy I remember I pretty much only started out watching football in 1997 and only watched EPL supporting Liverpool, La Liga didnt get that much global coverage back then.

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Post by Harmonica Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:16 pm

I don't think Ronaldo is a club legend, anywhere.

PSV 0 leagues, PSV won the league after he left.
Barca 0 leagues, Barca won the league back to back after he left.
Inter, 5 seasons with 1 cup.
Only legit claim for being a club legend is with Real Madrid, but with only 1 full league title in 5 seasons? I don't think so.

He is nt-legend with super Brazil.
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Post by Harmonica Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:21 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:I read somewhere that Barca lost the title on the last day of that season too, what bad luck, if they did win it it would have been a perfect season then Very Happy

Must have been amazing to watch him live or even just on TV too.... the way he just seems like an alien playing among little earthlings Very Happy I remember I pretty much only started out watching football in 1997 and only watched EPL supporting Liverpool, La Liga didnt get that much global coverage back then.
Spot the alien.

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Post by rincon Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:22 pm

I would be hesitant to attribute Ronaldo's ballon d'or to Madrid. Most times when players move in the summer, their biggest achievements of that year come before playing for their new club, which was the case of Ronaldo both times. His 97 Ballon D'Or was because of what he did from Barca, not Inter. And his 2002 one is the same scenario between Inter and Madrid.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:53 pm

Good lord Harmonica... all this time and you still haven't figured out that football is about emotions.  The players that bring joy to the fans are the top players.  Stats are great and everything... but they are very secondary.

Just to give you a Barcelona example other than R9...  Cruyff only scored 48 goals in 143 games (5 full seasons) at Barca as a player.  In those 5 years, Barca only managed 1 La Liga title and 1 CDR total.  If you look at it based on today's standards, the stats show that both Cruyff and Barca were average during that period.  But would anyone ever think that Cruyff wasn't a fantastic player during that time? And people would not know today that it was rare for players to score 20 goals in a season back then.

Emotions... that's football.
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:58 pm

R9 is a Inter legend imo
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Post by Harmonica Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:00 pm

Umm, Cruyff isn't Barca legend as a player either.
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:02 pm

Harmonica wrote:Umm, Cruyff isn't Barca legend as a player either.


That's just lame even for you Laughing
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Post by Harmonica Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:03 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Umm, Cruyff isn't Barca legend as a player either.


That's just lame even for you Laughing
If truth is lame, then sure.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:04 pm

:facepalm:
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Post by Doc Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:51 pm

Almost as bad as Pedro is better than Stoichkov or that one Juve fan who said Lev Yashin wasn't a good goal keeper (or along those lines).
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Post by M99 Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:51 pm

I guess Suarez isn't a Liverpool legend either since he only has one Carling Cup.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:43 pm

sportsczy wrote:Good lord Harmonica... all this time and you still haven't figured out that football is about emotions.  The players that bring joy to the fans are the top players.  Stats are great and everything... but they are very secondary.

Just to give you a Barcelona example other than R9...  Cruyff only scored 48 goals in 143 games (5 full seasons) at Barca as a player.  In those 5 years, Barca only managed 1 La Liga title and 1 CDR total.  If you look at it based on today's standards, the stats show that both Cruyff and Barca were average during that period.  But would anyone ever think that Cruyff wasn't a fantastic player during that time? And people would not know today that it was rare for players to score 20 goals in a season back then.

Emotions... that's football.


Thats really surprising to learn, it just goes to show, from my guess anyway, that every philosophy has its flaws and football takes a very well rounded team to win, especially titles, u need good defense, which from my understanding is not something Cruyff and Pep focus on are are weaker on...
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Post by titosantill Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:04 pm

@learning, they didn't lose it on the last day due to badluck, they lost to hercules when ronaldo left to play some tournament with brazil. i remember that season, it was capello's first season at madrid, and somewhat similar to his last...i remember him talking about how one player wasn't going to beat us for the title, and people laughed at him. ron left, they dropped points. i don't think it was the last day, might have been 2 or 3 games before can't remember

sports is right about emotions....its the same emotions that make younger fans of that club, see the crazy things messi's done, and look at other players and go "that guy can't be a legend, he didn't do what messi did", but fail to realize times are different....its why i said the narrative changes; prior to the ronaldinho era, when that club had wobbly shaky moments, even people who didn't see cruyff play for them would refer to him as a legend (btw i never saw him play for them). as a madrid fan, i saw him when he coached them. and before all those titles, he was generally referred to as a legend for them

but once again, everyone has their own definition. some madrid fans think arbeloa and guti are madrid legends lol. and unlike arbeloa, i think guti was very talented, but legend he is not....infact for all the talent he had, i might say, a bit of a disappointment
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Post by sportsczy Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:23 pm

Rules were different, pitches weren't perfect like today, training wasn't the same, nutrition, shoes... and the ball was MASSIVELY different.  I played with the Adidas Tango.  100% leather football with water resistant coating.  It was night and day compared to the ball today.  First off, the trajectory was pure... impossible to make the ball dip and swerve like today.  Best you could do was make it bend in one direction.  Second, it was heavy.  Todays footballs are light as a feather.  Back then, I remember trying to kick a football when I was 10 and it wasn't that easy. It hurt my foot until i did it properly Laughing

Far fewer games too.

So there's a whole set of different variables.  Can't compare stats as a result.
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Post by Bankz Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:59 pm

I can't add anything more about what sports has said about R9 tbh..

Nothing beats watching ronaldo lima imo.. Just pure fantasy and domination. Plus barca lost the league 2 games before the last league game when ronaldo traveled to brazil and equally won the confederations cup and copa america in thesame 1997 while swooping every single individual award available Very Happy adding to the CDR, SSC, Euro Cup Winners Cup while loosing the league just after he traveled to brazil.. It was like he wasn't contesting with anyone ffs Very Happy What a legend..
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Post by rincon Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:40 pm

Much more than Ronaldo (who I hated too much too suck up to :coffee: ) my personal favorite to watch was Ronaldinho, that man was football personified.
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Post by Bankz Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:37 pm

Nah, Nothing beats pre-Ronaldo imo, I mean, NOTHING!!!
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Post by CBarca Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:37 pm

A legend but not at Barca
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Post by Thimmy Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:51 am

sportsczy wrote:Rules were different, pitches weren't perfect like today, training wasn't the same, nutrition, shoes... and the ball was MASSIVELY different.  I played with the Adidas Tango.  100% leather football with water resistant coating.  It was night and day compared to the ball today.  First off, the trajectory was pure... impossible to make the ball dip and swerve like today.  Best you could do was make it bend in one direction.  Second, it was heavy.  Todays footballs are light as a feather.  Back then, I remember trying to kick a football when I was 10 and it wasn't that easy. It hurt my foot until i did it properly Laughing

Far fewer games too.

So there's a whole set of different variables. Can't compare stats as a result.


Hardly anyone gives a crap about such things. I've lost count of how many times I've read or heard someone claim that X team or player is the greatest of all time, over the past two decades. In fact, those dated conditions you mention tend to be used to degrade past players, not make a case for how much more difficult they had it.
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:33 pm

Thx everyone for clearing it up, well it would be unthinkable to see big clubs letting their players leave towards the end of the season when competing for the title, I guess the clubs powers were less back then Razz
Pretty sure it cost Barca the perfect season then Razz
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