Is there any hope for Dutch football?

Netherlands have always provided football with entertainment. Whether its with the greats like Cruyff, Van Basten, Bergkamp, Rijkaard etc or it's with the football they played which became an inspiration for many other clubs and countries. Dutch league hasn't been the best for some time now, however it still provided with players who played for top teams like Sneijder, Robben, Van Persie and Van der Vaart.

However lately Dutch football seems to be going down a bottomless pit. They haven't produced a decent talent for a while and their international performances already declined them with the Euro16 participation and qualifying for WC18 might prove to be difficult if they don't improve on their results. Netherlands might as well be looking at back to back failure to qualify.

So the question is that will Dutch football bounce back? if yes then how? if no then is this is the end?

They really squandered their talent during the 90s and early naughties didn't they? At least they won Euros in '88. Anyway, they really are in a rotten patch when it comes to producing top level and elite talent from top to bottom. Don't think they even have any top managers minus Van Gaal of course (: Subject to correction of course.

But eventually, like most top footballing countries in the world, they would probably get their act together as long as the mechanisms are in place.

TFM got this.

We just have not been producing the talent that we used to. I have had really high hopes for a lot of the young players recently but they have either been injury ridden or never lived up to the potential.

I was surprised along with everyone else how well we did in the WC considering how erratic LVG can be, plus the obvious age gap. Lots of bright young players, only a few veterans (Sneijder, Robben, Huntelaar). No player really in their 'prime,' apart from maybe Robben.

Now that those veteran players have gone on even more- we feel the effects. And that is not even to mention the horrible team management we have had for the past 20 years or as long as I can remember.

We just have to wait and see if some of these young talents will eventually fulfill their potential.

What happened to that FM GOAT Zivkovic kid ? Thought he was the next RVP. Aint he doing well ?

Anyway as I said Fosu Mensah got this. One of the problems with Holland has been their lack of midfield and winning the battle to tie our prodigy to play for Holland youth level is the step in the right direction by the Dutch FA. He can become that Pogba like figure in that heart of their midfield (if Jose wont fck up by not playing him that is thereby hampering his growth )

RealGunner wrote:Netherlands have always provided football with entertainment. Whether its with the greats like Cruyff, Van Basten, Bergkamp, Rijkaard etc or it's with the football they played which became an inspiration for many other clubs and countries. Dutch league hasn't been the best for some time now, however it still provided with players who played for top teams like Sneijder, Robben, Van Persie and Van der Vaart.  

However lately Dutch football seems to be going down a bottomless pit. They haven't produced a decent talent for a while and their international performances already declined them with the Euro16 participation and qualifying for WC18 might prove to be difficult if they don't improve on their results. Netherlands might as well be looking at back to back failure to qualify.

So the question is that will Dutch football bounce back? if yes then how? if no then is this is the end?

Meh, nope. Not true. It's just that the talent that is being produced is for defense more than offense. De Vrij was regarded as one of the best (top 3) defenders in Serie A two seasons ago. Had a nasty injury last season. Tete is a great defensively oriented RB. It's just that he's an Ajax player and he's not flashy so he's not regarded as a top talent outside of The Netherlands. Van Dijk is working himself up in the EPL. Bazoer has the raw potential... Bruma was great for PSV last season (not just Eredivisie, the games vs. Atleti are a prime example) but I'm not sure he'll be able to replicate it at Wolfsburg. We're not stacked to the brim with it, but the talent is there.

We haven't been producing much on the flashy offensive side. It shows when you look at the national team and the players we've been playing up front. When there is no Robben, we only really have Promes (who is doing good in the Russian league as a striker, so I'm told, but is being played out of position on LW) and Janssen (who has been improving by leaps and bounds these last few years and has potential).

In the AM/CM department, I have high hopes for Pröpper. After another good season with PSV I can see him playing for a top 10/15 European side.  

I'm not talking about the Fosuh Mensah's, Van de Beek or even the Xavi Simon's of this world. Can't really tell yet if they have it in them.

In the end I agree with vanDEEZ though, we've had shit coaching and we've been unlucky with the talent due to injuries or poor personalities. If we look at raw potential/talent I think we'll be fine regarding defense and midfield (if Strootman can stay fit).

Oh, and Zivkovic is shit.

RealGunner wrote: if no then is this is the end?

What does that even mean?
Oh and what is it with this TFM hype @Glory?

(Btw what @Madvillain didn't mention is that if you know these players you'd be *bleep* depressed after reading that post as a dutch fan)

zigra wrote:
Oh and what is it with this TFM hype @Glory?

Nothing much. Just doing my job as a Man U faithful I guess.
He is our  biggest prospect along with Rashford. Mourinho who normally give fck all about youth and youth development and only keeps the young talents he is sure about, has chosen to keep only TFM and Rashford in his first team plans for this season and that speaks volumes of his ability. Last season he featured in 10 or so games and was impressive each time when he played despite being only 18 years of age. (for eg, the Spurs match where he kept good players like Eriksson, Alli and Lamela locked down until he finally went off of injured and they scored 3 goals after that).

Good post @Madvillain. Yea Bazoer is a proper talent. Forgot about him. Him and TFM can possibly form a pair in the future.
Oh had high hopes for Zivkovic after he won Ballon d'Or in my FM 15 save. Too bad its not amounting to anything in real life.

zigra wrote:

RealGunner wrote: if no then is this is the end?

What does that even mean?
Oh and what is it with this TFM hype @Glory?

(Btw what @Madvillain didn't mention is that if you know these players you'd be *bleep* depressed after reading that post as a dutch fan)

Typical United fan hyping up our players . Like on redcafe Zlatan became a top 5 player because he was coming to united and all of a sudden became the best striker in Europe when he's never ever been the best striker in his career.

jibers wrote:

zigra wrote:

RealGunner wrote: if no then is this is the end?

What does that even mean?
Oh and what is it with this TFM hype @Glory?

(Btw what @Madvillain didn't mention is that if you know these players you'd be *bleep* depressed after reading that post as a dutch fan)

Typical United fan hyping up our players . Like on redcafe Zlatan became a top 5 player because he was coming to united and all of a sudden became the best striker in Europe when he's never ever been the best striker in his career.

Aaah, that hurts mate. Comparing me to a poster on Redcafe.
On a serious note I hype up players who are only legit  btw.

1. The Eredivisie is a good basis for a player. You can develop, fight for your starter-place and show what you can do. However, when you are in this development, you can score much goals in the shitty league. This gives the impression "the next Robben/Sneijder" has been born. These players leave the competition at a very young age, because of the high amounts of money that is being offered abroad. They dont develop as much as they used to (previous generations dutch players). They go away and end up sitting on a bench.

2. We are in between generations. The older "great" Dutch generation (Robben, Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Van Der Wiel, De Zeeuw, Kuijt, Babel, Van Persie, Huntelaar) are all getting older and losing their prime. This is natural. Nothing wrong with it. But the current generation players is very young, and doesnt have enough experience in our own league. Saurez stayed 4 years. Robben stayed 4 years. Sneijder stayed 5 years. Van der Vaart stayed 5 years. Kuijt stayed 8 years. Depay got a starting-place in 2013/2014 and left 7th may 2015. What else is there to say? Its easy to be good in the Eredivisie. They leave for the money and stop developing. This results in a bad bad bad national team.

Glory wrote:

jibers wrote:

zigra wrote:

What does that even mean?
Oh and what is it with this TFM hype @Glory?

(Btw what @Madvillain didn't mention is that if you know these players you'd be *bleep* depressed after reading that post as a dutch fan)

Typical United fan hyping up our players . Like on redcafe Zlatan became a top 5 player because he was coming to united and all of a sudden became the best striker in Europe when he's never ever been the best striker in his career.

Aaah, that hurts mate. Comparing me to a poster on Redcafe.
On a serious note I hype up players who are only legit  btw.

Zigra must have edited his post. He didn't tag you originally

Zigra pls

??

Glory wrote:??

???

I mean why does that matter, him tagging or not tagging my name.

Glory wrote:I mean why does that matter, him tagging or not tagging my name.

Look Glory if you want to come at me then just say it.

jibers wrote:

Glory wrote:I mean why does that matter, him tagging or not tagging my name.

Look Glory if you want to come at me then just say it.

What lol, theres a serious misunderstanding somewhere. You are taking me for the wrong guy. And with your posts I am getting the feeling you are having a go at me on the contrary.
Anyway let's just get it done it with, i mean the confusion.
Werent you mentioning my name in your post after quoting when Zigra tagged it. Or were you doing something else. My mistake if I took it wrong. Cheerios.

Disgusting behaviour by @jibers towards his fellow Utd fans

Glory wrote:

jibers wrote:

Glory wrote:I mean why does that matter, him tagging or not tagging my name.

Look Glory if you want to come at me then just say it.

What lol, theres a serious misunderstanding somewhere. You are taking me for the wrong guy. And with your posts I am getting the feeling you are having a go at me on the contrary.
Anyway let's just get it done it with, i mean the confusion.
Werent you mentioning my name in your post after quoting when Zigra tagged it. Or were you doing something else. My mistake if I took it wrong. Cheerios.

Originally Zigras post didn't tag you when he said united fans hyped TFM. So I didn't re read it when I quoted it and said united fans hype up our players etc.

jibers wrote:

Glory wrote:

jibers wrote:

Look Glory if you want to come at me then just say it.

What lol, theres a serious misunderstanding somewhere. You are taking me for the wrong guy. And with your posts I am getting the feeling you are having a go at me on the contrary.
Anyway let's just get it done it with, i mean the confusion.
Werent you mentioning my name in your post after quoting when Zigra tagged it. Or were you doing something else. My mistake if I took it wrong. Cheerios.

Originally Zigras post didn't tag you when he said united fans hyped TFM. So I didn't re read it when I quoted it and said united fans hype up our players etc.

Okay still doesnt get what difference its making whether the fact that he's tagged me or not. Or are you mentioning you werent specifically referring to my post and meant all United fans in general ?? Is that the case? Fine if that's so.

I agree United fans' are hopelessly fickle.
They are talking about Valencia and Fellaini after 3 matches like some revered beings. Anyone criticizing them at Redcafe is getting ridiculed at And these guys are calling to drop Martial and play Depay in his position.

Glory wrote:

jibers wrote:

Glory wrote:

What lol, theres a serious misunderstanding somewhere. You are taking me for the wrong guy. And with your posts I am getting the feeling you are having a go at me on the contrary.
Anyway let's just get it done it with, i mean the confusion.
Werent you mentioning my name in your post after quoting when Zigra tagged it. Or were you doing something else. My mistake if I took it wrong. Cheerios.

Originally Zigras post didn't tag you when he said united fans hyped TFM. So I didn't re read it when I quoted it and said united fans hype up our players etc.

Okay still doesnt get what difference its making whether the fact that he's tagged me or not. Or are you mentioning you werent specifically referring to my post and meant all United fans in general ?? Is that the case? Fine if that's so.

I agree United fans' are hopelessly fickle.
They are talking about Valencia and Fellaini after 3 matches like some revered beings. Anyone criticizing them at Redcafe is getting ridiculed at And these guys are calling to drop Martial and play Depay as well.

I didn't even read your post

I was referring to united fans in general. I've seen people on redcafe say TFM can be the best right back in Europe in 3 seasons

Haha even though he can do a job there, he is not a full back and if he's played at full back long term it will be a massive failure of an idea just like how Phil Jones was. That alone tell everything to know about them, ignorant idiots.
Either play him CB or CDM, preferably the latter and he's got the potential to be a legit player in that position.

Tofu Menthol

zigra wrote:

RealGunner wrote: if no then is this is the end?

What does that even mean?
Oh and what is it with this TFM hype @Glory?

(Btw what @Madvillain didn't mention is that if you know these players you'd be *bleep* depressed after reading that post as a dutch fan)

Depression hits you after you read my post or RG's? I'm not blind. We have *bleep* no where near the quality of players we had 20 years ago. But this whole generation with Sneijder, Van der Vaart (never really rated him, Quaresma-esque player with good technique combined with a shitty loser/indifferent personality) and Van Persie was hardly all that much better TBH. It's like I said, the talent has shifted to more defensive players. Back in '08 our defense was absolutely dire. André *bleep* Ooijer, Johnny Heitinga (FFS), an aging Van Bronckhorst, Joris Mathijsen... Mathijsen. Oh, and - I kid you not - Tim de Cler. Are you honestly going to tell me those guys are better than what we have in defense right now? We've got a very solid core of younger players with an experienced Vlaar as a back up. Miles better than 8 years ago.

I admit I edited my post. Several times actually.
And I just don't remember TFM as a special talent. Would be surprised if he makes it at United but of course you never know. At the moment I certainly don't want to imagine a Bazoer-TFM midfield

Madvillain wrote:

zigra wrote:

RealGunner wrote: if no then is this is the end?

What does that even mean?
Oh and what is it with this TFM hype @Glory?

(Btw what @Madvillain didn't mention is that if you know these players you'd be *bleep* depressed after reading that post as a dutch fan)

Depression hits you after you read my post or RG's? I'm not blind. We have *bleep* no where near the quality of players we had 20 years ago. But this whole generation with Sneijder, Van der Vaart (never really rated him, Quaresma-esque player with good technique combined with a shitty loser/indifferent personality) and Van Persie was hardly all that much better TBH. It's like I said, the talent has shifted to more defensive players. Back in '08 our defense was absolutely dire. André *bleep* Ooijer, Johnny Heitinga (FFS), an aging Van Bronckhorst, Joris Mathijsen... Mathijsen. Oh, and - I kid you not - Tim de Cler. Are you honestly going to tell me those guys are better than what we have in defense right now? We've got a very solid core of younger players with an experienced Vlaar as a back up. Miles better than 8 years ago.

After reading yours. I know there are some decent young players and decent defenders aswell. It's just that the names you mentioned. Davy *bleep* Pröpper. A 25 year old guy who you said is good enough to maybe join a top 15 club next season. Imagine that's your best hope for midfield? The best attacker who isn't a granddad is an almost 25 year old striker in the russian league. Decent squad players? Sure. But imagine building your team around these players.