Dutch football federation encourages gay players to come out of the closet

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:34 am

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Post by Potential Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:39 am

Always one step ahead of the rest of the world, nothing wrong about being gay!
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:42 am

Honestly if I were a Dutch footballer with sufficient talent to play out of the league I'm not sure if I would come out. With Italian managers and players saying things like "I wouldn't want a gay player/teammate" that's a huge market you could lose on by just coming out. The peace of mind it would bring might be worth it, though.
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Post by McLewis Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:10 am

Well that just means Italy wouldn't be the right the destination for them. Doesn't mean Spain or France or England or Germany might not be.

Good for them though.

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Post by Kick Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:36 am

You should be proud of who you are. Don't hide it away.
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Post by The Messiah Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:03 am

There is a lot more to this topic, if it was normal people shouldn't even be talking about coming out or not. Personally I don't think being gay will have effect on my opinion of any player, well I can't be sure for certain until a gay players come out public then I can ascertain if my opinion on him will change.



I heard the last gay player that came out public committed suicide, such a sad story. Maybe they should keep it on a low key to avoid such incident.
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Post by eelir Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:16 am

The Messiah wrote:There is a lot more to this topic, if it was normal people shouldn't even be talking about coming out or not. Personally I don't think being gay will have effect on my opinion of any player, well I can't be sure for certain until a gay players come out public then I can ascertain if my opinion on him will change.



I heard the last gay player that came out public committed suicide, such a sad story. Maybe they should keep it on a low key to avoid such incident.

@The Messiah: So you think being gay is not normal? Well, if that is the case, it shows a lot about what you would think about gay players!

On topic:
I do not get this fuss frankly. I mean people in football domain should be profesional. With this in mind, why would such a irrelevant personal thing be an issue. Well, as with all hatred and -isms (racism, nationalism...) this is simply stupid and unjustifiable. But it exists and some pay for it.
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Post by FalcaoPunch Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:57 am

No problem if someone is gay.
Problem is if someone is gay is demanding "rights"

When they already have the same rights as everyone else. Man or woman.
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Post by The Messiah Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:06 am

eelir wrote:
The Messiah wrote:There is a lot more to this topic, if it was normal people shouldn't even be talking about coming out or not. Personally I don't think being gay will have effect on my opinion of any player, well I can't be sure for certain until a gay players come out public then I can ascertain if my opinion on him will change.



I heard the last gay player that came out public committed suicide, such a sad story. Maybe they should keep it on a low key to avoid such incident.

@The Messiah: So you think being gay is not normal? Well, if that is the case, it shows a lot about what you would think about gay players!

On topic:
I do not get this fuss frankly. I mean people in football domain should be profesional. With this in mind, why would such a irrelevant personal thing be an issue. Well, as with all hatred and -isms (racism, nationalism...) this is simply stupid and unjustifiable. But it exists and some pay for it.


I could say you got my personal opinion wrong, that's not exactly what I meant by that. But yeah many people will debate that nevertheless (if it is normal or abnormal). I am fine with gay people, as long as they don't try to overpower me with it.


Generally the western culture have accepted other people could be gay, unlike few years back. but I think where the abnormality lies is coming out publicly, especially for sports like football or lets say politicians, the public are list likely to vouch for them, that just how it is.


If I have a gay friend involve in any of this, I will advise him/her to keep it on a low key.
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Post by The Messiah Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:13 am

Also why do you even have to announce you are gay, I don't hear straight people coming out to announce they are straight, they just do their thing. I think gay people should just do their thing as well, no need to announce it or tell the world I am gay. there is no point in doing so
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Post by Onyx Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:22 am

Why should whether their gay affect football?

Being straight doesn't affect anyone?

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Post by Clockwork Orange Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:41 am

I think it is a very bad idea. I have no problem with a gay footballer but it is still seen as a bit of a taboo in the football world. I ask myself this, would I want my son to be gay?

The answer is a big no. I want my child to be like me and if my child turns out gay I would be very dissapointed. Now people can say that is not right and argue, but that is the way I feel and that is the way most of my firends feel. I have no problems with gays, but I still think it is a bit weird and abnormal. I am not homophobic as I get along with gay people when I meet them, but I am still extremly uncomfortable when gays make out in front of me and so are most of my friends.

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Post by VanDeezNuts Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:44 am

that just means you are a somewhat tolerant homophobe

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Post by Clockwork Orange Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:51 am

Well you can call me what you want. That is how I feel and I make no apologies for it. Why would I want my child to be gay when I'm not?

to the mods/admins, apologies for going slightly off topic, I just find this topic really intriguing and it is always good to hear other peoples opinion.
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Post by Bellabong Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:02 am

The Messiah wrote:There is a lot more to this topic, if it was normal people shouldn't even be talking about coming out or not. Personally I don't think being gay will have effect on my opinion of any player, well I can't be sure for certain until a gay players come out public then I can ascertain if my opinion on him will change.

You try to attack my integrity as a person from your own misunderstanding and yet here you are spewing offensive bs about how your opinion could be affected after finding out a players sexual preference over which they have absolutely no control over.

ColoJunior wrote:No problem if someone is gay.
Problem is if someone is gay is demanding "rights"

When they already have the same rights as everyone else. Man or woman.

This statement blows my mind in its ignorance. How much more offensive can stupidity get?

A gay partner does not have the same rights as a husband/wife. In the US for example a partner can't visit his/her SO in the hospital or be a medical proxy.

Gay couples don't get the same tax and financial benefits as a married couple and last time I checked being homo stops one from being allowed to fight for his country.

And you say homosexuals don't have the same rights - do a little research before you offer an opinion on a subject because you're embarrassing yourself.

Yohan Modric wrote:Why should whether their gay affect football?

Being straight doesn't affect anyone?

People are uncomfortable about showering/getting dressed in front of someone who could be sexually attracted to them - don't you ever wonder why changing rooms are segregated? The homophobic influences of the Abrahamic religions certainly don't help societies perception of homosexuality.

Then there's homophobic parents and societies who would refuse their children and members from idolizing and supporting a homosexual player.

Until society realizes that discrimination based on sexual preferences is the same as making fun of a kid born autistic or without limbs - they never had a choice in how they were born - then homophobia in sports will persist.

Why do you think there was such and uproar about Janet's Superbowl incident or the Phelps bonghit? Parents don't want their children to idolize and emulate people who they perceive as bad influence.

None of it is rational, but such is the world we live in.
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Post by stevieg8 Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:04 am

The Messiah wrote:Also why do you even have to announce you are gay, I don't hear straight people coming out to announce they are straight, they just do their thing. I think gay people should just do their thing as well, no need to announce it or tell the world I am gay. there is no point in doing so

Just yesterday, a coworker of mine - also the friend who got me the job - came out to our boss. He's been working there for 7 months now, it's a very open environment, and we have a great relationship with her (talking about everything and anything), and she hadn't realized. It's not about wanting to broadcast it, it's about being honest with the people around you about who you are. If you want to meet other gay people and spark an interest, or avoid giving people the wrong impression (many girls have been made uncomfortable thinking he was hitting on them, when he was just being friendly and didn't realize because he doesn't think in those terms), it needs to be public knowledge. He doesn't wear a sign, but if it comes up in conversation he'll say so. Telling him to keep it private is profoundly disrespectful and says that it would be better if he came off as someone different.

@Clockwork Orange: Why do you want your child to be like you? They're their own person, and will probably have very different opinions from you on many things... I'm just curious what realms this extends to. Would you take issue with them holding different political opinions than you? Different religious beliefs? Fan of different sports teams? Different taste in women? Different favorite foods? I'm just curious what you're referring to when you say you want them to be like you.

As for the original topic, I think this is great of them. Sports is one of the last realms in the Western World that is not open to gays - just last year, it was a huge deal that an NBA front office worker came out, and we have yet to see an openly gay, active player in the major four sports here in the U.S. This is something that needs to be changed; multiple players have testified to a presence of homosexuals about equivalent to the demographic average (estimated anywhere between 5 and 10 percent), but the fact that they're not comfortable stating it publicly is a sad fact. I hope we see progress on this in the near future.
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Post by Clockwork Orange Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:09 am

@stevieg8 Just sexual preference. That's just the way I feel. I can't help it. If my child was gay I would feel dissapointed. He can be his own person, but sexuality for me doesn't define his personality. I'm straight, all my family have been straight to the best of my knowledge and I would rather it carried on that way.
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Post by Bellabong Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:14 am

Clockwork, you have absolutely no control or choice in your offsprings sexual preferences, it's a moot point.

The fact that you're uncomfortable with it is pretty normal though - everyone wants their children grow up in the way they envision - it's what you actually do about it that matters - trying to force out homosexuality is like trying to force a person without limbs to play twister.
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Post by The Messiah Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:19 am

Phritz wrote:
The Messiah wrote:There is a lot more to this topic, if it was normal people shouldn't even be talking about coming out or not. Personally I don't think being gay will have effect on my opinion of any player, well I can't be sure for certain until a gay players come out public then I can ascertain if my opinion on him will change.

You try to attack my integrity as a person from your own misunderstanding and yet here you are spewing offensive bs about how your opinion could be affected after finding out a players sexual preference over which they have absolutely no control over.


How in good earth name I am being offensive against anYyone, did I make any insultive/offensive remark towards gay people, CLEARLY NO!

and there is no way you can be sure/certain about anything until of course it happens. Currently I don't think my opinion will change about any player if he come out as gay, but I can't be certain with that until it actually happens.


So if someone state one single thing about this topic, the whole world come out and start saying you are homophobic or offensive. How exactly is my statement offensive...?

I know many people out there who actually keep their real opinion on this topic secret, those are the real dangerous people. The ones that sugar coat and act as if everything is ok, if there is an elephant in the room why should we all act like oh it's ok he's not too big for the room.


I don't mean to say Gay people are elephant, but the truth is that many people that I know(excluding me) are no ok with it, I am cool with gay people, but I don't think majority of the public are, even people that comes out and act like they are ok with it still have to tolerate it.



My Liberian is gay, I was ok with him, we were really close.


Personally for me, being gay is not the problem, the problem lies on the topic it's self.


Last edited by The Messiah on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Clockwork Orange Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:23 am

@the messsiah I agree with you (for the first time!)

People coming out and trying to force others to be tolerant of gay people annoy me the most. I have friends that flat out don't socialise with gay people and quite frankly, I do not care, they can do what they want. You can't force someone to change their feelings towards something.

Most people are still uncomfortable with it.
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Post by Bellabong Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:46 am

You weren't explicitly offensive Idri but the notion that someones inborn sexual preferences can affect your perception of that person is offensive and if you don't realize that then it'd pointless to discuss this further with you until you flip flop into an LGBT activist.

Clockwork, the problem isn't that you're uncomfortable with it - it's the reasoning behind it that's the problem - you said it yourself that you think it's abnormal and unnatural and that's because you were raised to think that. The ancient greeks weren't raised to think that and that's why homosexuality was never a social issue for them and was almost encouraged.

Modern homophobia can be traced to the Abrahamic religions influence on the matter and was exacerbated by the STD stigma that came with AIDS/HIV. There's nothing natural about it - you don't see societal animals discriminate the homosexual ones.

And Idri, the most dangerous ones aren't the ones who acknowledge their opinions and are active or passive about it, it's the ones who form misconceptions based on disinformation and assumptions, like Colo's "They have equal rights" Or even the current US opposition candidate Mitt Romney's "I didn't know [homosexuals] had families".

I'll even admit that a homosexual couple making out right next to me would make me uncomfortable, but no more or less than a heterosexual couple making out right next to me and that stems from my own feelings on PDA.


Last edited by Phritz on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:49 am

McLewis wrote:Well that just means Italy wouldn't be the right the destination for them. Doesn't mean Spain or France or England or Germany might not be.

Good for them though.
I don't think it's only Italy though, in all of football it's still pretty taboo. Otherwise it'd be more common to see them come out.
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Post by stevieg8 Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:04 am

The Messiah wrote:
How in good earth name I am being offensive against anYyone, did I make any insultive/offensive remark towards gay people, CLEARLY NO!

How were you offensive?

The Messiah wrote:
I heard the last gay player that came out public committed suicide, such a sad story. Maybe they should keep it on a low key to avoid such incident.

The Messiah wrote:
If I have a gay friend involve in any of this, I will advise him/her to keep it on a low key.

These statements put the blame on the victim. It is equivalent to telling a woman who was raped she should dress differently, or telling Holocaust survivors they should've just converted. Someone should not have to lie about themselves and pretend to be something different (which, if we're talking about instances of suicide, lead to a VERY high rate) simply because aspects of society are intolerant. I do not mind a position like Clockwork Orange's - if, like Phritz has said, it doesn't lead to action (against his future children or anyone else). Understanding and accepting your own intolerance is fine; everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the people who take action against gay people are committing hate crimes, doing something that harms someone simply because of an inherent part of their personhood. They are the ones to blame, not the victims of their insensitivity, and to imply otherwise is offensive.
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Post by The Messiah Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:15 am

Gay people should do whatever pleases them, I now understand that coming out to make a statement such as saying a former gay player like Justin Fashanu committed suicide partly because of coming out publicly is now considered by "Mr I know it all", "Mr I sugar coat things" "Mr I lack reality checks, as being offensive.


If I am offensive by simply stating the outcome of past incident then I wonder what else will be considered offensive. I don't think there is any need for any gay player to come out publicly and say I'm gay, there will be no point in doing so, if there is an inevitable incident that eventually leads to that, say for example maybe secret tape of gay sex, then he can come out and say it.


Straight people don't have any need of coming out to say I am straight, same should apply to gay people, no need to make big deal out of this.


and I I also think it's also stupid to commit suicide, also it's stupid to compare Holocaust or rape victim with this topic, because obviously one hold more significant than the other, Holocaust victim were killed in the worst way imaginable unlike this gay dude that took his own life, it's also different from a rape victim who was FORCEFULLY held down.


If you are gay, you are gay and SO!!!! why do you have to put it in my gadanm handsome face or the world at large for that matter, I mean no straight person come to me and say, "the Messiah I am straight" when clearly there is absolutely no need to say so, if a girl says it to me I am straight and I find her pretty I will probably think she wants some and some she'll get.

Also I thought celebrities and public figures likes keeping their private lives to themselves, why should we now encourage people to reveal to us their private doings.


Honestly I can't be bother if someone is gay, it's hold no meaning in my measure, and if you come to me and start telling me, oh! Do you know I am gay, my reply is and SO!! move aside and if you persist, I might take it for harassment and could probably do something about it


Last edited by The Messiah on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Bellabong Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:32 am

Idri, you're condoning hiding what you are as a person "laying low" because society is discriminatory.

I don't know how to put it any clearer than that and the holocaust comparison is valid because he describes the exact same principle when referring to it an example.
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