Munich Amok Rampage

Hapless_Hans wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:I'm sure the CSU will do the right thing after this and really fight left-wing extremism

Left-wing extremists commit more violent crime in Germany than the right-wing.

Can't remember where I saw this data by I know it was official.

Not true, and very, very far off too.

Anyway, don't see why you would need to come and argue this today.
You yourself had possibly the right instinct here with the Breivik anniversary thing.
Right wing terrorism in Germany is very real. It's not as big a thing for the whole world as Islamic terror, but for Germany it is bigger, and real.

Had you already past cases of right wing terrorism in Germany ? I know just the RAF (left wing extremism).
In Italy we had both and the modus operandi was always different : right wing terrorism aimed on specific targets (like poltiics or policemen, such as RAF. ) but never the people . Neofascists hitted into the crowd " at random" , even attacking the trains.
It wasn't so different than yesterday tbh...

Hapless_Hans wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:I'm sure the CSU will do the right thing after this and really fight left-wing extremism

Left-wing extremists commit more violent crime in Germany than the right-wing.

Can't remember where I saw this data by I know it was official.

Not true, and very, very far off too.

Anyway, don't see why you would need to come and argue this today.
You yourself had possibly the right instinct here with the Breivik anniversary thing.
Right wing terrorism in Germany is very real. It's not as big a thing for the whole world as Islamic terror, but for Germany it is bigger, and real.

I didn't need to argue this but then again I wasn't the one that brought up left-wing extremism. I wish I remembered the site that gave the statistics I mentioned but alas I can't find it. I do remember that it said right wing extremists in Germany do 4 times as much crime overall than left-wing extremists. It was just specifically "violent" crime that showed left-wing extremists doing a bit more.

I did think it was probably some Breivik wannabe, but then I heard the interview with a witness saying he shouted Allahu Akbar.
Maybe RWO is right and that was just him trolling but it seems unlikely.

@Robes
According to tageschau.de, in 2014 there was statistically every 4th day a right-extreme crime which was referred to the NSU. Up to mid 2015, 259 crimes were connected to the NSU according to the BKA. (NSU - National Socialist Underground)

Source:
- http://www.tagesschau.de/thema/nsu/index.html
- http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/nsu-neuer-terror-im-namen-des-nsu-259-straftaten-seit-2011-a-1048013.html

rwo power wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:So RWO, possibly there was only one shooter after all, and he's dead?

Yeah, looks like it.

I'm curious what they will find out about the culprit.

BTW, there will be a presser at 02:00 GMT+2 it seems (right now then).

Is it just me or is there no conference yet?

I have ARD running - they seem to be waiting, too.

http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/livestreams/livestream-zwei100.html Found a stream but nothing happening so far.

Well, press conferences often are not perfectly on time...

The guy who was the culprit seems to be an 18 year old German-Iranian man from Munich (he has lived in Munich "for longer" > 2 years, the speaker was not more specific even though a journalist asked again). He shot himself after the crimes.

It is unclear what connections the criminal had. Investigations are still under way.

10 people killed, 21 injured

Motives still unclear, they are still investigating.

2100 policemen and special corps were involved including Austrian COBRA, and others.

There were many false hints to other shootings, but these were investigated fast and found wrong.

Some festivals might be called off due to respect for the victims.

So if I didn't misunderstand him the guy was found dead at 20:30 and the city was in lockdown with more than 2000 police forces involved for hours mainly because people wrongly reported shootings all over the city.

Well, he said they went for safety first. After all, if there had been more than one attacker, there could have been more victims, and in that case everybody would have asked why they didn't do anything further.

I don't blame the police for responding to calls, I just have to question people all over the city reporting shootings when there haven't been any.

Good question. I'm not sure if people were just panicky and reported any spark failure of a car or if there were idiots who wanted to feel cool by calling in with false reports. I hope they will crack down on the latter.

Better to be safe than sorry.

German-Iranian ? so that pretty much excludes ISIS or any Sunni group i guess ?

We don't know anything yet but we'll get more information at about 11.30am UTC+02:00 according to the police.

Well, I read the following in the Guardian live ticker:

"A witness, Luan Zequiri, said he was at the scene when the shooting broke out near the McDonald’s restaurant.
He told the German broadcaster N-tv that he heard the attacker yell an anti-foreigner slur and “there was a really loud scream”."

I haven't seen this in the German ticker at the TZ, though. The part about the "anti foreigner slur" sounds a  bit peculiar, particularly as there was some other report where the culprit was reported to have called "Allahu Akbar".

I guess we really need to wait for further police investigations.

I read that in german media aswell though I don't remember which one. According to the reports he shouted something "scheiß Ausländer" (f'ing foreigners) or something that included it.

In the end it's better to just wait for more information. I'm still drunk and tired anyway.

Some new reports say he was a victim of bullying for about 7 years, which led to this incident.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3704230/Munich-mall-shooter-responds-mad-Turk-taunts-onlookers.html

We really need a separate thread for starters.

Renamed the thread for now. I might rename it once more when more information is released.

Seems like he was just a random nutter instead an ISIS sympathizer. Hopefully the police are able to find some motive or explanation, it would be better than the public being left to speculate in times like these.

I'm so scared of the world today

You realize the situation is really serious when you keep hoping that they were the Nazis.

DuringTheWar wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:


Left-wing extremists commit more violent crime in Germany than the right-wing.

Can't remember where I saw this data by I know it was official.

Not true, and very, very far off too.

Anyway, don't see why you would need to come and argue this today.
You yourself had possibly the right instinct here with the Breivik anniversary thing.
Right wing terrorism in Germany is very real. It's not as big a thing for the whole world as Islamic terror, but for Germany it is bigger, and real.

I didn't need to argue this but then again I wasn't the one that brought up left-wing extremism. I wish I remembered the site that gave the statistics I mentioned but alas I can't find it. I do remember that it said right wing extremists in Germany do 4 times as much crime overall than left-wing extremists. It was just specifically "violent" crime that showed left-wing extremists doing a bit more.

I did think it was probably some Breivik wannabe, but then I heard the interview with a witness saying he shouted Allahu Akbar.
Maybe RWO is right and that was just him trolling but it seems unlikely.

The supposed "Allahu Akbar" shouting was reported nowhere in Germany and frankly not sure where the DailyMail got that from, it was reported by eye-witnesses he shouted "*bleep* foreigners". In the video we hear him say "*bleep* Turks".

Apparently however he's a 18 year old German-Iranian, so probably not the East-German Nazi we thought he might be, and not sure whether there is any connection to the Breivik thing.
Not that Iranians are exactly close to Isis either, we'll have to wait and see.

Possibly this is not politically motivated at all.

About the crime stats, the thing that boosts left wing crime numbers are vandalism and property damage delicts, for example in earlier year destruction of railway infrastructure during the anti-nuclear-waste protests, or car burning in Berlin. These are often classified as violent or terrorist.

On the other hand, lighting up a refugee home is classed as property damage instead of a terror attack.

As Viva said, the German justice has been skewed forever, the notion of German justice being "blind on the right eye" actually is from the 1920s. It's just a historical fact, and the recent NSU Nazi terrorism scandal (some of these guys were paid by the Secret service) is further proof of that, if you compare it to how the state reacted to the 70s RAF spree.

Art Morte wrote:Seems like he was just a random nutter instead an ISIS sympathizer. Hopefully the police are able to find some motive or explanation, it would be better than the public being left to speculate in times like these.

Agreed. Even the same mode of suicide ( killing himself alone, not self-exploding so as to involve more people as possibile ) doesn't look like a thing to do with an Isis mylitant

Is anyone else a bit concerned at the ages of these attackers? 17 year old Afghani kid. 18 year old this guy. Maybe young minds are easily influenced?