Griezmann for Ballon d'Or ?

Which would be more impressive to you mole, winning the euro while also being a CL finalist, or winning the CL while being a euro finalist?

It's not impressive for Bayern because Bundesliga is a 1 team league. In any other league it's impressive.

Has only been done twice in England in the 21st century.
A traditional powerhouse like Milan has never won a domestic double in its history. Inter did it only once (if we leave out the Calciopoli nonsense title).

If France win I could see him being top 3. He's been immense.

However if Portugal win there's no chance anyone wins it over Ronaldo.

Depends on his hype around November.

If he wins Euro and plays exceptionally around October-November, he has a chance of being 3rd.

It's between him Messi and Bale currently. Suarez and Neymar shat their Copas, and Cronaldo has been trash in Euros.

I think this wouldn't even be a debate if he had won the CL. Him choking away the penalty is what's gonna cost him the Balon D'or

@carthage. Winning the Euros and being a CL finalist is more impressive. Gosh is that even a debate. And NO! Messi shouldn't win it imo, being the undisputed best player in the world is different from having the best season/calender year.

What It should be
1. Ronaldo/Griezeman..
2. Griezeman/Ronaldo
3. Suarez

What it will be
1. We know
2. We know
3. Whoever

What it might be
Depends on ones hype around october/november, so whoever goes on a tear by then will be hyped up to be the third contender, with the top 2 remaining constant (k).

That said, if Ronaldo wins the Euros, then we can as well close this thread.

Only three years ago he was Vela's sidekick.

If he puts on a show in the final then i'd guess he could get the top 3 no probs

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Which would be more impressive to you mole, winning the euro while also being a CL finalist, or winning the CL while being a euro finalist?

The latter probably, but i suppose it depends on the performance in both games and the performances leading up to said finals.

if we're being fair and this isn't a popularity contest i'd say griezmann deserves the damn thing, whether his team wins the euro or not. most on here, know my issues with these kind of awards, either handle it right or scrap it. i've always felt winning titles is very important, probably the most important part of the season. but it should not be looked at as the 'qualifying' leg to getting individual honors. sometimes you don't need titles to justify how amazing a player has been....

the award was never like that, a lot of it was pretty much based on the 'eye-test' and sometimes the title was just the icing on the cake. ronaldinho for example, as much as i dislike his team, you couldn't say "this guy shouldn't get the award" in the years he got it, title or no title. the guy has had a hell of a season, hell of a season

Bankz wrote:Btw, isn't griezeman the player mehdrid should be chasing? *But but scrugba*

i disagree about the pogba part, i think he's a good player, but yeah i agree with you with regards to who we should be chasing. but it'll be tough prying him away from atleti, and i think he just extended his contract with them recently if i'm not mistaken

How are people so clueless on the current (and what began from 2009) Ballon D'or voting format. It's become a glorified golden boot / popularity contest which only Ronaldo or Messi can win.

Under the old format only media voted, now in the new format media, NT captains and NT managers vote. NT captains and NT managers don't give a shit about the award and simply vote for the sake of it while they have their morning coffee. NT captains and NT managers only think about Messi or Ronaldo.

The media are the only ones who takes it seriously. It's their job to watch games and they vote more fairly and vote for players the general actual football fan would agree on. Under the old format sneijder would have won 2010 and ribery would have won in 2013. The media voted for these 2.

Even if Atletico won the CL and France ends up winning Euros. Griezmann still has no chance of winning in the current crap format. If Ronaldo frauds himself to the Euros and tries to make the world believe he is a good player again, he will win. If not It's tight between him and Messi. Whoever stat pads the most throughout the first half of the club season will win.

There is no point of having a rational discussion over this shit award. Players like Griezmann stand no chance in the current format. The only reason people try to have a rational debate ever year on which player deserves it is becaus Ballon D'or used to have some credibility in the old format.

titosantill wrote:if we're being fair and this isn't a popularity contest i'd say griezmann deserves the damn thing, whether his team wins the euro or not. most on here, know my issues with these kind of awards, either handle it right or scrap it. i've always felt winning titles is very important, probably the most important part of the season. but it should not be looked at as the 'qualifying' leg to getting individual honors. sometimes you don't need titles to justify how amazing a player has been....

the award was never like that, a lot of it was pretty much based on the 'eye-test' and sometimes the title was just the icing on the cake. ronaldinho for example, as much as i dislike his team, you couldn't say "this guy shouldn't get the award" in the years he got it, title or no title. the guy has had a hell of a season, hell of a season

So what makes Griezeman's season better than Ronaldo, Suarez or Messi's? Considering I know you have no dog in this fight, you would probably have a more objective take.

i felt he had more to do than all of them over the course of the season and was consistent at it. he's also had a brilliant euro tournament, damn near made people forget they left benzema at home. the ucl was good for us, but i can't just forget the complaints i had all season about our players throughout the course of the season. cristiano stepped up later on, say what you want about wolfsburg, his role in the comeback was impressive. i think suarez had an equal to or better season than messi. but yeah for me griezmann as atleti's main outlet and going strong again in the summer should be a worthy candidate...i'm just going by the 'eye-test' and feeling i had as the season progressed.

Harmonica wrote:Suarez and Neymar shat their Copas,

Neither played you idiot.

People have to be clear about what they want from this award. If it's the best player in the world it would deservedly be Messi every year. But if it's importance to their teams then I actually think Griezmann has a better argument than anyone else. Ronaldo has done jack for Portugal and I don't think was even Madrid's best player. And while Messi and Suarez are both amazing you could argue they are less necessary to their teams than Grizzy just because their teammates are better.

Harmonica wrote:Suarez and Neymar shat their Copas,

next time review your "stat sheet"/whoscored before posts...the "fouls per yellow", "assists for goals that didn't go in", "goals scored in winter weather" and other fallacious stats suite you better

It's Griezmann, Cristiano and Messi on the podium. If Portugal wins Euro 2016 we don't even need to wonder about this any more. If France wins then Griezmann has a chance but it could still be difficult given the dominance of Messi and Cristiano all these years when they didn't even let world cup winners win as opposed to what used to happen in football history.

this thread... if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if  if if if if if nothing is deserved until it's earned, and griezmann has not earned anything yet.

Getting to two finals ( and being the main reason his team is there) is still something in fairness.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Getting to two finals ( and being the main reason his team is there) is still something in fairness.

He has definitely earned the right to be taken seriously in the Bdo discussions. A win tomorrow and that discussion would swing in his favour for me which is what he would really need to even be considered a winner nowadays. Those two have way too much influence on voters (in one way or the other).

Yeah i'm basing my posts in a reality where actual performances are considered

The reality here is even if he scored a hatrick in a France win tomorrow he still probably wouldn't get a look in.

When you look at it... it's miraculous that Atleti are successful as they are and Griezmann scores as much as he does compared to Messi and CR given the talent that surrounds each.

I mean Griezmann had a midfield of Koke, Gabi and Saul... and Torres as his attacking running mate The only attacking threat really other than Griezmann is Carrasco and he doesn't even start all the time (Augusto Fernandez gets some looks).

On NT, the cards are turned... Griezmann has the better support while Ronaldo is playing with limited help.

I think the best comparison is... Messi and CR on NT where they actually have to compensate for teammate flaws compared to Griezmann with Atleti.

Because Atleti were complete scrubs without Griezmann

Yes on paper Atleti is worse than Barca but let's not act as if Grizzy is the main reason for them over performing. That's on Simeone.

Cruijf wrote:Because Atleti were complete scrubs without Griezmann

Yes on paper Atleti is worse than Barca but let's not act as if Grizzy is the main reason for them over performing. That's on Simeone.

They've always had at least a couple of top shelf attacking players:

-  Forlan/Aguero
-  Costa/Falcao
-  Turan/Costa
-  Turan/Griezmann

This past year is the only time that they've relied on just one top shelf attacking player.  They haven't missed a beat because Griezmann has stepped up in an incredibly efficient manner to boot.  He scored 32 goals on 133 shots and dished out 7 assists.  You know how many shots Ronaldo took?  322.  That's right 322!!!  He got 51 goals but look at his efficiency.

I actually thought they were going to struggle some this year but they didn't. They're trying to get someone to help Griezmann out (Higuain, Lacazette,etc.)... no luck so far though. Nico Gaitan should help a ton in terms of creating more opportunities however.