Biggest achievement in football history?

sportsczy wrote:Looked it up... Leeds for sure.  They were in the second division in 1989-1990 and were 4th in EPL 1990-1991 and then won it 1991-1992.

I didn't really see much footy then as i was in the US.  But i remember my friends going crazy about it lol.

Stuff like that happened all the time back then, I mean we went from getting promoted to finishing 3rd the following season. For that reason i don't think it compares.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:They have lost 3 games all season ffs. It's an amazing achievement for a club of that size, there is no justification for trying to belittle it.

Just so you know the big clubs have been crap for years but nobody took advantage, at some point that's just how it is instead of a one off season where the stars aligned.

I'm not trying to prove it isn't amazing, as it clearly is. It's something that will go down in history, I just don't think it's the greatest achievement in history.

Yeah I don't understand why people get so caught up on this, if they merely claimed "one of the biggest achievements in the history of the sport" that would not be controversial, but making it the biggest?

Kick wrote:I don't think it's the greatest either.

When you think about it, Chelsea won last season with 87 points, City the season before with 86, Utd before that with 89. This season, Leicester can only get to 83, assuming they don't ease up now they've won it, which I think is likely. Also, looking at Spain, Atletico and Real are on 86 and 85 points, yet neither are leading. So the way I see it, the quality of the other teams in the EPL is obviously down. Chelsea are obviously rubbish, City gave up when Pep was announced, Arsenal are Arsenal, Man Utd have struggled with LvG and Liverpool only started playing well recently. So having Spurs as their only title rivals made things rather easy for Leicester.

Kudos to them for taking their chance, but I don't see it happening again next season and I don't think it's the greatest achievement purely because all the big teams were woeful this season. It would be a greatest if Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Utd and Liverpool were all on top form throughout the season.

The very fact that Leicester is the team that took advantage of the traditional powerhouses' slip is an accomplishment in itself .

I'd get the argument if  Southampton or  even  Everton  did it since these 2 usually resided outside the top 4/5 the last few years  and would be the likeliest teams to take advantage of any big team underperformance , but this is a freshly promoted ,  relegation-battling team we're talking about here.

Kick wrote:I don't think it's the greatest either.

When you think about it, Chelsea won last season with 87 points, City the season before with 86, Utd before that with 89. This season, Leicester can only get to 83, assuming they don't ease up now they've won it, which I think is likely. Also, looking at Spain, Atletico and Real are on 86 and 85 points, yet neither are leading. So the way I see it, the quality of the other teams in the EPL is obviously down. Chelsea are obviously rubbish, City gave up when Pep was announced, Arsenal are Arsenal, Man Utd have struggled with LvG and Liverpool only started playing well recently. So having Spurs as their only title rivals made things rather easy for Leicester.

Kudos to them for taking their chance, but I don't see it happening again next season and I don't think it's the greatest achievement purely because all the big teams were woeful this season. It would be a greatest if Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Utd and Liverpool were all on top form throughout the season.

once again, i don't think all teams being woeful is enough to take away from the shock of a team that were relegation candidates with a lot of players considered 'never do wells' winning the title. ofcourse many of us don't see it happening again next year, and that's what makes it stand out. if one sensed they could do it again, the feat would not necessarily be considered as much a shocker

i simply don't think its the greatest because of context and the fact that there are phenomena and events that some of us haven't seen, have not experienced, or were not privy of getting proper coverage. i followed serie a in the 80s so, i saw some of the shockers there but back then, we didn't consider some shockers, until we put things in perspective as time passed. what Leicester did this season had people who do not follow them, like myself, tuning in to see if "this shit is really happening"

its one thing to say something like a big club overachieved because the others were crap....but even if the top 8 clubs in the league are playing like a couple of old nuns in their birthday suit, Leicester winning the title is not to be expected. we aren't talking about a team that features in ucl or the europa league, we're talking about a team that has spent more time in the lower division in the last ten years than they have in the premiership

once again, i'm not calling it the greatest, but the form of the bigger teams is NOT enough to exclude them from that conversation

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Also it's funny Futbol actually believes VilLOLrreal are actually better than Spurs and Arsenal.

Not a chance in hell lol.

I wouldn't say better but in the same tier. Spurs and Arsenal are maybe slighty better but only by little nuances. Over 2 legs I'd trust Villarreal to knock both teams out tbh, due to tactical superiority, having bigger balls and being battle-tested by playing against Barca, Real and Atletico regularly. Villarreal have 2 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses against Barca, Real and Atletico and those 2 losses came very late in the Bernabeu and Camp Nou in overall tight games. You think Arsenal or Spurs got anything on them? Sit down, m8.

I didn't say it's not one of the biggest, Farfan.

I just said it's not the biggest, which is what the thread title is asking.

I bet before 2014/15, not one single person on here could name three players in the Leicester city team. Hell, I doubt most could point Leicester out on a map

sportsczy wrote:no

One of the better ones, sure. But Helas Verona had a bigger achievement in my eyes in the 80s in Serie A.

Those are the to two clubwise for me in terms of league.

who was born in 80s to accept it with a right state of mind !

Lex wrote:I bet before 2014/15, not one single person on here could name three players in the Leicester city team. Hell, I doubt most could point Leicester out on a map

Ok so it's a huge surprise. Can you show me anyone in this thread who disagreed with this?

Apart from that I think it's a strange argument. We're talking about the biggest achievement in football history, NOT the biggest surprise/upset (and I'd argue that it is high up on both sides but not at the single top spot on either of them). Something being more upsetting than something else doesn't make it a bigger achievement.

I still can't point out Leicester on a map tbh

zigra wrote:

Lex wrote:I bet before 2014/15, not one single person on here could name three players in the Leicester city team. Hell, I doubt most could point Leicester out on a map

Ok so it's a huge surprise. Can you show me anyone in this thread who disagreed with this?

Apart from that I think it's a strange argument. We're talking about the biggest achievement in football history, NOT the biggest surprise/upset (and I'd argue that it is high up on both sides but not at the single top spot on either of them). Something being more upsetting than something else doesn't make it a bigger achievement.

You're overthinking this. In football, the upset would be if freshly promoted Leicester go to the Etihad and get a result (which they did) The achievement would be if freshly promoted Leicester went on to win the entire league (which they have) In terms of achievement in football history, it's in a league of its own

My point is, before this year, Leicester were a non entity in the world of football. Hellas Verona? Plenty of people have heard of them. Leeds? A big part of football history. Blackburn? Southampton? All well known names in the sport, with varying degrees of success. Prior to this year, Leicester's best finish in any league was 2nd in the ancient first division back in 1929. Their last majour trophy (outside of the Championship) was the league cup in 2000, and that was a game against Tranmere Rovers (another team no-one outside of Britain has ever heard of) Leicester were literal nobodies before, which is why this achievement is so, so, so, so much more impressive than anything else in football lore

So it's a surprise and I still don't think anyone will disagree with it being surprising.

How winning a pleb league where your toughest opponen is a joke club like Tottenham could ever be the "biggest achievement in football history" is beyond me though

The quality of the league is irrelevant. There has never been a team that went from 20th to 1st in one year in a league with as much money as the Premier League. I just looked it up and they are 17th in the league when it comes to wage bills. To win the richest league in the world when you are 17th in funds and were 20th a year ago is unheard of.

Ok, quality doesn't matter but being the richest league matters. Not even sure anymore if you're trying to argue or just trolling

The greatest Achievement in football is fishing 4th place for 20 years.

Leicester will get relegated next season.

@zigra: It's a very basic point

I don't care how strong the league is compared to other leagues, that's irrelevant. I care how big of a challenge it was for Leicester. And when you are such a poor team in an era where money dominates football and in a league as rich as the PL, it's a massive challenge indeed.

Cruijf wrote:@zigra: It's a very basic point

I don't care how strong the league is compared to other leagues, that's irrelevant. I care how big of a challenge it was for Leicester. And when you are such a poor team in an era where money dominates football and in a league as rich as the PL, it's a massive challenge indeed.

Them being 17th in terms of money is a decent argument. It means they are directly competing against 16 clubs that have more money. But the PL being the richest or 2nd riches or 5th richest league doesn't change that. In every case there are 16 clubs they are competing with who have more money.

Apart from that I still stand by the point that an achievement is not just "defying the odds".

the thing with 'quality' is, all those teams- city utd chelsea arsenal, where still in the league. its not like they were banned or suspended from playing epl footy...not leicester's fault they flopped. if all those teams aren't consistent, we expect spurs, southampton, liverpool and the europa contenders to be the ones to step up. not a side that for the last ten years have spent more time in the bowels of the lower division, haven't had the same kind of cash to splash on big name players, probably haven't had the players experienced enough to compete for a 38 game marathon to win a title (huge  difference competing in 38 games fighting relegation and fighting for a win)

the quality of the league would matter if you were comparing this Leicester side to a previous winning team...e.g. if you're asking "who was the better team between Leicester and arsenal or city or utd when those teams won the title", then you can bring up the quality talk. but as far as an underdog story, no matter how one spins it, its huge. this isn't like some billionaire bought Leicester and immediately went out to sign all the top names in football. they were 14th last year, and the year before they were in the championship, a grass to grace story without a doubt.....and something that most clubs or managers  in that same position will not be able to pull off (unless they had the budget to bring in all the best names)

No one said anything is Leicesters "fault".
This thread is not about the biggest underdog story.

its a huge achievement, especially from an underdog standpoint. the biggest? i wouldn't go that far. but as far as the 21st century is concerned, regardless of how some other team played, i might say hell yes. i don't see many pulling this kind of feat. the position and status of the club outweighs league quality imo...these guys played championship footy two seasons ago, and were 6 points off relegation last season, we just can't sweep that under the rug cos the bigger teams didn't have the mentality/energy/form to run the race

zigra wrote:

Cruijf wrote:@zigra: It's a very basic point

I don't care how strong the league is compared to other leagues, that's irrelevant. I care how big of a challenge it was for Leicester. And when you are such a poor team in an era where money dominates football and in a league as rich as the PL, it's a massive challenge indeed.

Them being 17th in terms of money is a decent argument. It means they are directly competing against 16 clubs that have more money. But the PL being the richest or 2nd riches or 5th richest league doesn't change that. In every case there are 16 clubs they are competing with who have more money.

Apart from that I still stand by the point that an achievement is not just "defying the odds".

ok, how many times such a comparable achivement has happened in last 20 years? I am considering only 20 years because I follow football/in general sports also from last 20 years only. I am curious to know if you yourself witnessed something similar

titosantill wrote:its a huge achievement, especially from an underdog standpoint. the biggest? i wouldn't go that far. but as far as the 21st century is concerned, regardless of how some other team played, i might say hell yes. i don't see many pulling this kind of feat. the position and status of the club outweighs league quality imo...these guys played championship footy two seasons ago, and were 6 points off relegation last season, we just can't sweep that under the rug cos the bigger teams didn't have the mentality/energy/form to run the race

I don't think anyone would disagree with it being a HUGE achievement.

Helmer wrote:

zigra wrote:

Cruijf wrote:@zigra: It's a very basic point

I don't care how strong the league is compared to other leagues, that's irrelevant. I care how big of a challenge it was for Leicester. And when you are such a poor team in an era where money dominates football and in a league as rich as the PL, it's a massive challenge indeed.

Them being 17th in terms of money is a decent argument. It means they are directly competing against 16 clubs that have more money. But the PL being the richest or 2nd riches or 5th richest league doesn't change that. In every case there are 16 clubs they are competing with who have more money.

Apart from that I still stand by the point that an achievement is not just "defying the odds".

ok, how many times such a comparable achivement has happened in last 20 years? I am considering only 20 years because I follow football/in general sports also from last 20 years only. I am curious to know if you yourself witnessed something similar

There have been teams that won the league directly after being promoted. I won't look up the numbers as this wasn't my point, but I guess they were pretty low on the money table aswell. Don't forget this thread isn't about 20 years, it's about football history.


Apart from that we're still talking about achievement. Defying the odds can be an aspect of an achievement, but certainly not the only one. Is long-term success not an achievement? Isn't becoming the best team in the world and maintaining that status over years an achievement?

maintaining the status is an achievement in itself, but its kinda like rich getting richer. u win the title, and next year you spend another huge cheque on players, some from rival sides to maintain dominance...not that there's anything wrong with that, hell i'm a madrid fan, and we're always looking for who to sign. but we see that happen everyday, hell we'll see it happen next season. familiarity breeds contempt, we're very familiar with such stories, and your quality argument could even make sense in such scenario as well.......but most people's point is that 5000 to 1 odds doesn't happen everyday.

bayern will win the league tomorrow, and probably sign someone from dortmund or some other smaller side in europe and look to do it all over again with carlo ancelotti this time. didn't mean that as a form of disrespect to bayern or bundesliga fans, just using that as an example. point being, we've seen those stories before