Origi vs. Martial

I've seen this comparison a few times now, and I think it's a pretty fair one. They're both natural strikers that are used out wide as well. They're both 95 born with a lot of talent and are highly rated in their home countries. They have had similar rates of scoring throughout their career and both bring a lot of athleticism and talents of their own (Martial more willing to take on his opponent, though he loses the ball 2 times for every successful take on) and Origi better at shielding the ball and, IMO, has a better shot. Still:

This is previous to their moves to the EPL:

u19 NT and up:
Origi 10 goals in 20 games. (.50/g)
Martial 4 goals in 17 games. (.24/g)

Senior NT:
Origi 3 goals in 14 games. (.21/g) - notable for World Cup performances also
Martial 0 goals in 6 games.

Senior Career:
Origi 16 goals 6 assists in 89 games. (.18/g)
Martial 15 goals 8 assists in 70 games. (.20/g)

This season Martial has had a much bigger role on his team, but his per minute stats all fall behind Origi (it would have been interesting to see the amount of time Origi would have had if he hadn't been injured, as Klopp very clearly likes him a lot):

Martial
0.35 goals per 90
1.34 chances created per 90
1.89 shots per 90

Origi
0.59 goals per 90
1.48 chances created per 90
2.66 shots per 90

Now, before anyone just starts going of about stats. Yes, it's hard to compare due to the team set-ups and whatnot, and as always stats are simply supplemental to actually watching the two play. I think since they're both young and talented they'll be compared for years to come as long as neither stunts in their development. Hence the question.

Martial now and in the future .
Simply more talented .

How can you freakin compare a guy who rarely plays and wasn't considered an elite talent either in Ligue 1 or in EPL... to a guy who is the undisputed started for Man U and been fantastic while playing out of position and won the Golden Boy award for 2015 as Europe''s best young player.

Origi has started exactly 3 games I think in EPL this season...  taken 9 shots for 2 goals.  Yet you''re going to extrapolate stats for that?

Are you mental?

Dybala v Martial is a better comparison and Dybala has had a better season so far... because he's playing in his best position imo while Martial is not. Both are supremely talented and I love them both.

martial's better, he's a starter right now. until origi can get a good run of games for pool, i'm not sure how this comparison can be legitimate. Their futures will depend largely on coaching from klopp and mourinho (if he is indeed the next utd manager). its not like, maybe reyes vs robben vs cristiano at that age where one could make arguments based skill for skill on who would have the better career...with the rigidness of the managers and their appetite for building teams with certain styles, their futures will depend largely on how they are managed (and yes, once upon a time reyes vs cristiano was a legitimate comparison of youngsters)

sportsczy wrote:How can you freakin compare a guy who rarely plays and wasn't considered an elite talent either in Ligue 1 or in EPL... to a guy who is the undisputed started for Man U and been fantastic while playing out of position and won the Golden Boy award for 2015 as Europe''s best young player.

Origi has started exactly 3 games I think in EPL this season...  taken 9 shots for 2 goals.  Yet you''re going to extrapolate stats for that?

Are you mental?

Dybala v Martial is a better comparison and Dybala has had a better season so far...  because he's playing in his best position imo while Martial is not.  Both are supremely talented and I love them both.

If Martial is so *bleep* amazing why is he producing at a shitty efficiency like the talentless Origi?

LMAO at the notion that Origi shouldn't be compard to Martial because he wasn't considered a talent in Ligue 1. As if talent scouts never made an error in judgement before. He was obviously rated otehrwise he wouldn't be starting for Belgium in a *bleep* World Cup at 19 years old during their golden generation

Taking into account the prices for which the 2 players were bought i think its an unfair comparison. We had to pay shitloads of money to land the kid whereas pool got their kid for cheaper.
So obviously right now Anthony is a level above. Its not even a question. But that doesnt mean shit. Origi can still become a great player for them in the future. And if mourinho is indeed the coach for whom Mart is gonna play next then well, ... his progress can easily hit a roadblock like hazard's after a certain point.
 
Agree with Sports btw that Dybala and Martial would be a far spicier comparison.

And as far as Martial's best position is concerned, is it really that of a cf ?? May be after 3 or 4 years, but right now he looks more as a wide playmaker than a no.9. As a 9 he is not that clinical enough...yet. He needs to see as much of the ball as he can and for that he needs to be on the wing taking on full backs.

Good thread, good comparison.

I can predict we'll revisit this in 12 months after Martial has been benched by Mourinho in favour of a reactivated Ryan Giggs, while Origi has taken off under Klopp and quite a few of you, especially sports of course, will look like right mugs, once again.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Good thread, good comparison.

I can predict we'll revisit this in 12 months after Martial has been benched by Mourinho in favour of a reactivated Ryan Giggs, while Origi has taken off under Klopp and quite a few of you, especially sports of course, will look like right mugs, once again.

Benched for who lol, everyone on that team is so crap. Manchester united have no world class players apart from de Gea. Origi will not be anything special trust

I don't rate Origi at all, so I naturally think Martial is better.

But I will laugh if in 12 months Origi is better, considering the cost difference.

Martial and its not even close right now, Maybe later Origi might have a say, But i doubt he'd have as much impact.

I don't really understand the whole "Martial and it's not even close right now" just because he's starting for Man U. Who is keeping Martial out of that line-up? Origi would have been starting if not for being injured, and has looked fantastic under Klopp. Not to mention when everyone is healthy he has Firmino, Sturridge and had Benteke (who was a huge investment) in front of him.

When Origi is better in 12 months I'll be laughing.

Curtinho wrote:I don't really understand the whole "Martial and it's not even close right now" just because he's starting for Man U. Who is keeping Martial out of that line-up? Origi would have been starting if not for being injured, and has looked fantastic under Klopp. Not to mention when everyone is healthy he has Firmino, Sturridge and had Benteke (who was a huge investment) in front of him.

When Origi is better in 12 months I'll be laughing.

People aint saying Martial is better just because he is starting games.
Obviously you havent seen much of Martial this season, its evident. Otherwise you woudnt have took the pain to even create this thread in the first place.
Instead you are using stats to compare them ya right.

Anyway any stats in this regard you find will be skewed.
Origi is playing in a team that is miles ahead in terms of attacking prowess than that of Martial. Origi have the likes of sturridge, coutinho and firminho alongside him and we have lol rooni and depay.
Origi is playing for one of the best attacking/counterattacking coaches in modern football where as martial is playing for the stubborn negative old man who takes away footballer's freedom on the pitch.
Yea fair comparison in every fricking sense.

The only argument a pool fan can put forward successfully is the fact that origi cost peanuts when compared to martial. So taking into account the relative price/quality ratio yea it would be fair to say both have done reasonably well so far. As far as future goes, as i said anything can happen.

Don't call me James wrote:
LMAO at the notion that Origi shouldn't be compard to Martial because he wasn't considered a talent in Ligue 1. As if talent scouts never made an error in judgement before. He was obviously rated otehrwise he wouldn't be starting for Belgium in a *bleep* World Cup at 19 years old during their golden generation

Thats because Lukaku was shite back then and the only other forward they had was this kid.

You guys do  realize that Origi was one of the worst players in LOL 1 last year , right ?
At what point were these two even comparable ?
-In the youth teams one was a wunderkind who once scored 30 + goals in a season , the other was a nameless dime a dozen player .
- In LOL 1 Martial was more impressive and stole more headlines coming off the bench for Monaco than Origi starting for Lille .  needless to remind you that last year he featured in almost every reputable " worst 11 of the season " , While Martial ended up leaving for a record fee .
- In England Martial hit the ground running and managed to bench the more hyped Depay . Origi is still a non factor for Liverpool ...

The only thing he has over Martial is Liverpool fan hype and 2 world cup games .

Glory wrote:People aint saying Martial is better just because he is starting games.
Obviously you havent seen much of Martial this season, its evident. Otherwise you woudnt have took the pain to even create this thread in the first place.
Instead you are using stats to compare them ya right.

The starting and 'hitting the ground running' was referenced. Origi would start for United too. It's funny that you say 'you haven't seen much of Martial this season' (I have) because I think Origi could end up a better player, how much have you ever watched of Origi at all? I've watched every minute of him with Liverpool and he's done nothing but impress.

Anyway any stats in this regard you find will be skewed.
Origi is playing in a team that is miles ahead in terms of attacking prowess than that of Martial. Origi have the likes of sturridge, coutinho and firminho alongside him and we have lol rooni and depay.
Origi is playing for one of the best attacking/counterattacking coaches in modern football where as martial is playing for the stubborn negative old man who takes away footballer's freedom on the pitch.
Yea fair comparison in every fricking sense.

Even though, before the rout of Aston Villa last week Liverpool and United had scored the same number of goals? Coutinho and Sturridge have been injured (as was Origi) and Firmino spent a bunch of time injured/adjusting as well, not to mention who is linking the attack? Their midfield for most of the season consisted of Lucas, Can, Milner and an injured Henderson.

But yes, I like the bringing up of Origi at Lille as though THAT was a team to show off a talented offensive player, at the age of 19 (yeah, he was definitely deserving of 'worst XI'). If Martial was a 'bench player' what was Origi? They played almost the same amount last year in Ligue 1 ; though of course one was French and being shopped while the other was already bought, playing for one of the worst offensive teams in the top 5 leagues (if you can't see the difference in Origi's play with Belgium/Liverpool compared to the awful football at Lille I can't help you).

Memphis benched himself. Origi is a non factor? If you say so. What does that make Martial though, since he's producing at a higher rate and creating more chances in the time he's had. Not to mention Martial contributes to more ball loss than anyone else on United (between poor touches, unsuccessful dribbles and misplaced passes). I mean you look at United exiting the Champions League in a group with Wolfsburg, PSV and CSKA where Martial attempted 7.6 dribbles per game and lost the ball 6.3 out of those...he is flashy though.

Because Monaco were offensive juggernauts last year ?   last time i checked they had one of the best defenses in Europe ,conceded the fewest goals in the League, and played some of the dullest football i've seen  .
Funny how playing in that same defensive Lille didn't seem to hinder  Kalou the year before .
Origi was deservedly voted as one of the worst strikers in the league last year .  nobody that watched Lille last year would dispute this .

 Origi is a non factor? If you say so. What does that make Martial though,  

I don't know ...Highest league goal scorer for his team maybe ?  second highest assist provider for his team ?  some would argue this makes him a BIG factor for his team .

And what's up with those stats ?   Origi isn't playing the Champions league and  doesn't even have double digit  league matches under his belt . The sample is just too small to compare with Martial . If it weren't for his 3 league cup performances you wouldn't even have an argument .

@Curtinho
Again the same thing with you, as it is always. facts and stats.
If you have actually watched Martial, (you havent, please dont lie  because its a hard watch even for us fans to bear United this season under lvg, therefore no neutral let alone a rival fan would be willing to go to such extent. ) you wouldnt have had to resort to such blatant number crunching.
You may have watched him in the big games versus the big clubs, but lvg largely has a good record against these teams over the 2 years and the team generally have showed up, instead its the Sunderlands and Norwiches against which lvg has struggled. Martial has been the sole bright spark in attack over the length of the season in these games and in then again in most of the games.
And the situation is NOT a replication of the 2013/14 season let me tell you where a similar youngster alone shone under another clueless manager and our fans (more than anyone else) tipped him as the next big thing. The quality difference between Januzaj and Martial is well, staggering.

And also the fact is that we play with martial, ddg and 9 some other players. Opposition know he is our only attacking threat and tend to focus more on stopping him. Its not the same thing with origi, is it? I will admit though that barring a couple of odd games here and there  (1 of them was the Spurs game, Klopp's first in charge) i havent watched Divock. And he didnt impress me personally. But having said that i know i am too short on material to actually make a verdict on him.

Anyway its pointless to argue at this juncture. Right now everyone knows who is the better player (as is evidenced by the poll results btw ).
You should have included a 6th and 7th option in the poll though. Martial for now and too early to call as far as future is concerned and similarly one for Origi.

It's actually an insult that Martial is being bracketed with this scrub

RED wrote:It's actually an insult that Martial is being bracketed with this scrub

Nishankly wrote:Martial and its not even close right now, Maybe later Origi might have a say, But i doubt he'd have as much impact.

The only rational one here.

We can revisit in a few years; I'm looking forward to it.

farfan wrote:Because Monaco were offensive juggernauts last year ?   last time i checked they had one of the best defenses in Europe ,conceded the fewest goals in the League, and played some of the dullest football i've seen  .
Funny how playing in that same defensive Lille didn't seem to hinder  Kalou the year before .
Origi was deservedly voted as one of the worst strikers in the league last year .  nobody that watched Lille last year would dispute this .

As if you are actually downplaying the quality of Monaco compared to Lille to make Martial look better. Then bring up Kalou who scored 8 more goals (and 5 penalties) in almost 1000 more minutes (a 28 year old experienced goal scorer versus a 19 year old expected to lead the line of an even worse side the next year).

I don't know ...Highest league goal scorer for his team maybe ?  second highest assist provider for his team ?  some would argue this makes him a BIG factor for his team .

Yes, and Benteke leads Liverpool in goals and Milner leads Liverpool in assists and people cry for them not to even deserve a spot on the bench.

And what's up with those stats ?   Origi isn't playing the Champions league and  doesn't even have double digit  league matches under his belt . The sample is just too small to compare with Martial . If it weren't for his 3  league cup performances you wouldn't even have an argument .

That's why I also included their career numbers (and specifically said it was a small sample size). If you watch Origi play with Liverpool you can see his numbers are not only deserved, but he'd probably have a better output had he been healthy all season and had a bigger role in the team. Hold on to that Lille season though if you like...

As if you are actually downplaying the quality of Monaco compared to Lille to make Martial look better. Laughing Then bring up Kalou who scored 8 more goals (and 5 penalties) in almost 1000 more minutes (a 28 year old experienced goal scorer versus a 19 year old expected to lead the line of an even worse side the next year).

As if i actually need to go to such lengths to make the case for one of Ligue 1's breakthrough players in 2014-2015 being better than one of Ligue 1's worst players in 2014-2015 .
You're the one using the " team is too defensive" excuse to justify Origi's dogshit season last year . i'm simply pointing out the fact that Martial played in an even more defensive unit that didn't even feature a traditional striker in some matches .

Forget Kalou , Boufal ( an actual world class talent with ridiculous potential ) hit the ground running when he joined mid-season , outshone Origi , and didn't seem too hindered by Lille's defensive approach .
So lol at blaming Lille for Origi's failures . if anything, he's one of the many reasons Lille sucked last year .

Yes, and Benteke leads Liverpool in goals and Milner leads Liverpool in assists and people cry for them not to even deserve a spot on the bench.

I've yet to hear Man u fans say the same about Martial . They seem to be in unanimous agreement that he's their main attacking threat and one of their most important starters .
But hey , leave it to a rival fan to tell you he's not that big of a factor for them .

Hold on to that Lille season though if you like.

And hold on to the fantasy that Origi will somehow leapfrog Martial .

farfan wrote:Boufal ( an actual world class talent with ridiculous potential ) hit the ground running when he joined mid-season , outshone Origi , and didn't seem too hindered by Lille's defensive approach .

Boufal is 2 years older than Origi, and isn't even remotely a similar type of player. On top of which he's already played almost as much as Origi did last season and is on pace to produce about the same amount (not to mention Boufal is fighting for recognition while Origi was already sold and had his ticket to a bigger club, and was being abused by the supporters).

I like Boufal though he's fun to watch. Very tricky, though too selfish atm (thought that could also be because Lille is absolute ****).

LMAO curtinho.

I think us two are the only ones in the poll who didn't vote Martial.
I take it you voted Origi now and later, I voted Martial now Origi later

Curtinho wrote:

" " what ? how is Origi scoring in a different ( and easier ) game somehow wins you this argument ?

Enjoy :
https://streamable.com/f51q?t=2.2