Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:If it was the players explain why Barca needed to go out and buy Neymar and Suarez while looking like nowhere near the same team post Pep under 3 different managers.

But people are clearly that thick and I'm just about done trying to explain sense to idiots.

Good argument. And there's the "before" argument. Where was Barça before Pep? Titleless and finishing 3rd. He comes around, and with the same core of players that were already there (Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Pedro, Eto'o, Henry, Toure, Busquets, Sylvinho, Abidal, Valdès...) and some important but not core additions, wins everything.

free_cat wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:If it was the players explain why Barca needed to go out and buy Neymar and Suarez while looking like nowhere near the same team post Pep under 3 different managers.

But people are clearly that thick and I'm just about done trying to explain sense to idiots.

Good argument. And there's the "before" argument. Where was Barça before Pep? Titleless and finishing 3rd. He comes around, and with the same core of players that were already there (Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Pedro, Eto'o, Henry, Toure, Busquets, Sylvinho, Abidal, Valdès...) and some important but not core additions, wins everything.

Tito won the league 12-13 with the same core players, which Guardiola didn't 11-12.

Mr Nick09 wrote:and why in his right mind should he go for the "hard" option lmao

Are you kidding?
because of the challenge maybe?

why does Diego Simeone still coach Atletico? Why did Totti spent his entire career at Roma?

Money and glory is not the purpose in life for some people, believe it or not.

Have you never solved a difficult problem or passed a hard challenge where odds were against you, and through your own habits, hard work, and ideas you did it? That's winning in life.

That's more valuable for me, than money or accomplishing something in an easy enviromnment, when odds are with you.

I'm not blaming Guardiola for taking the easier path now, the guy has accomplished so much in his life through his hard work and competence, he deserves the right to chose whatever suits him best. It's not like he landed in this situation by luck.

Coming to the Premier League is enough of a challenge in itself. Pep's doing the right thing.

Of course Pep had his part in Barca's success but he wasn't the reason they won what they won. After all, he took over at Barca when the best player of all time was entering his prime.

Valkyrja wrote:Of course Pep had his part in Barca's success but he wasn't the reason they won what they won. After all, he took over at Barca when the best player of all time was entering his prime.

I agree, that prime of being injured every 3 months. Like the fact you have changed your tune now. 2 years ago you said CR was better than Messi now Messi is the GOAt all of a sudden

Harmonica wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:If it was the players explain why Barca needed to go out and buy Neymar and Suarez while looking like nowhere near the same team post Pep under 3 different managers.

But people are clearly that thick and I'm just about done trying to explain sense to idiots.

Good argument. And there's the "before" argument. Where was Barça before Pep? Titleless and finishing 3rd. He comes around, and with the same core of players that were already there (Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Pedro, Eto'o, Henry, Toure, Busquets, Sylvinho, Abidal, Valdès...) and some important but not core additions, wins everything.

Tito won the league 12-13 with the same core players, which Guardiola didn't 11-12.

Sure,after 4 years of succes and Pep's Barça was still the best team in Europe in 11-12 and didn't make it to the CL final which we most likely would have steamrolled just because a wrongly given handball. And we won the Cup. Dude had us being the best team in Europe for 4 seasons in a row.

free_cat wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

free_cat wrote:


Good argument. And there's the "before" argument. Where was Barça before Pep? Titleless and finishing 3rd. He comes around, and with the same core of players that were already there (Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Pedro, Eto'o, Henry, Toure, Busquets, Sylvinho, Abidal, Valdès...) and some important but not core additions, wins everything.

Tito won the league 12-13 with the same core players, which Guardiola didn't 11-12.

Sure, though Pep's Barça was still the best team in Europe in 11-12 and didn't make it to the CL final which we most likely would have steamrolled just because a wrongly given handball.

Wasn't that 09/10 vs Inter?

free_cat wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

free_cat wrote:


Good argument. And there's the "before" argument. Where was Barça before Pep? Titleless and finishing 3rd. He comes around, and with the same core of players that were already there (Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Pedro, Eto'o, Henry, Toure, Busquets, Sylvinho, Abidal, Valdès...) and some important but not core additions, wins everything.

Tito won the league 12-13 with the same core players, which Guardiola didn't 11-12.

Sure,after 4 years of succes and Pep's Barça was still the best team in Europe in 11-12 and didn't make it to the CL final which we most likely would have steamrolled just because a wrongly given handball. And we won the Cup. Dude had us being the best team in Europe for 4 seasons in a row.

But no major titles, the same can be said about 12-13, if Messi didn't get injured and Bayern gifted those 2 extra goals, Barca would've won CL also.

The point is Rijkaards Barca was stale, and there was signs in Guardiola's, he just bailed the ship earlier. Maybe it was because he didn't have enough power to revitalize it, or didn't see that happening at all.

jibers wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:Of course Pep had his part in Barca's success but he wasn't the reason they won what they won. After all, he took over at Barca when the best player of all time was entering his prime.

I agree, that prime of being injured every 3 months. Like the fact you have changed your tune now. 2 years ago you said CR was better than Messi now Messi is the GOAt all of a sudden

Are you trolling or what ? Watch the 2011 CL semifinal. Barca didn't do shit until a certain Lionel Messi takes the ball, dribbles half of our team and scores. Afterwards, Pep Guardiola lifts his second CL trophy.4 years down the line, Guardiola meets Barcelona in the CL semifinal. Guess what, Messi scores 2 goals and assists one ending the tie. The season before he was destroyed 4-0 in Allianz. His record in the last 4 CL semifinal matches is 2-10.

Yaya Toure's agent says he thinks his Yaya will leave Manchester City this summer with Guardiola taking over as coach

Harmonica wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Harmonica wrote:
Tito won the league 12-13 with the same core players, which Guardiola didn't 11-12.

Sure,after 4 years of succes and Pep's Barça was still the best team in Europe in 11-12 and didn't make it to the CL final which we most likely would have steamrolled just because a wrongly given handball. And we won the Cup. Dude had us being the best team in Europe for 4 seasons in a row.

But no major titles, the same can be said about 12-13, if Messi didn't get injured and Bayern gifted those 2 extra goals, Barca would've won CL also.

You are kidding about this, right? We lost on a 7-0 aggregate and even if every referee deceision had gone our way, we would have lost. In 11-12, we just needed the ref to give correct decisions and we would have made it.

And it's not only about winning, but about the level showed and how we played, and barça under Pep was the best team for 4 years, and we didn't get that dominance again until last season. Not under Tito although we were close in the league but underwhelming in the Cups, and definitely not under Martino when we started on par with Tito but ended garbage.

If anyone can win everything with Pep's squad from 08-12, anyone can win every title with Barça squad from 12-14, and we won just one title and were far from being the best in Europe.

jibers wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Harmonica wrote:
Tito won the league 12-13 with the same core players, which Guardiola didn't 11-12.

Sure, though Pep's Barça was still the best team in Europe in 11-12 and didn't make it to the CL final which we most likely would have steamrolled just because a wrongly given handball.

Wasn't that 09/10 vs Inter?

Sure, you are right. 11-12 was vs. Chelsea. There weren't referee blunders, but we were 5 cms away from making it to the CL final from the penalty spot.

free_cat wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

free_cat wrote:


Sure,after 4 years of succes and Pep's Barça was still the best team in Europe in 11-12 and didn't make it to the CL final which we most likely would have steamrolled just because a wrongly given handball. And we won the Cup. Dude had us being the best team in Europe for 4 seasons in a row.

But no major titles, the same can be said about 12-13, if Messi didn't get injured and Bayern gifted those 2 extra goals, Barca would've won CL also.

You are kidding about right? We lost on a 7-0 aggregate and even if any referee deceision had gone our way, we would have lost. In 11-12 we just needed the ref to give correct decisions and we would have made it.

And it's not only about winning, but about the level showed and how we played, and barça under Pep was the best team for 4 years, and we didn't get that dominance again until last season. Not under Tito although we were close in the league but underwhelming in the Cups, and definitely not under Martino when we started on par with Tito but ended garbage.

If anyone can win anything with Pep's squad from 08-12, anyone can win with Barça squad from 12-14, and we won one title and were far from being the best in Europe.

Why would I be kidding? Messi got injured, played injured and Bayern scored 2 legit goals in their home. You don't see 2-0 changing at all with fit Messi?

That's because the dominant Barca was growing old and stale, Messi was carrying not dominant Barca 11-13, in the middle Guardiola bailing the ship. It's easily shown in the statistics.

Actually that's pretty much if Rijkaard would have left after the 06-07 after losing the title in head to head results for Madrid.

Valkyrja wrote:

jibers wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:Of course Pep had his part in Barca's success but he wasn't the reason they won what they won. After all, he took over at Barca when the best player of all time was entering his prime.

I agree, that prime of being injured every 3 months. Like the fact you have changed your tune now. 2 years ago you said CR was better than Messi now Messi is the GOAt all of a sudden

Are you trolling or what ? Watch the 2011 CL semifinal. Barca didn't do shit until a certain Lionel Messi takes the ball, dribbles half of our team and scores. Afterwards, Pep Guardiola lifts his second CL trophy.4 years down the line, Guardiola meets Barcelona in the CL semifinal. Guess what, Messi scores 2 goals and assists one ending the tie. The season before he was destroyed 4-0 in Allianz. His record in the last 4 CL semifinal matches is 2-10.

Yet in that time you said CR was better than Messi

ANd you are telling me I'm trolling

What great team hasn't had incredible players?

Michels had Cruijff, Saachi had MVB.

Pep was a big factor in their success and he gave them the platform to do well, that is what a coach is there to do, but at the end of the day, the players are the biggest factor because they are the ones winning things.

free_cat wrote:

jibers wrote:

free_cat wrote:


Sure, though Pep's Barça was still the best team in Europe in 11-12 and didn't make it to the CL final which we most likely would have steamrolled just because a wrongly given handball.

Wasn't that 09/10 vs Inter?

Sure, you are right. 11-12 was vs. Chelsea. There weren't referee blunders, but we were 5 cms away from making it to the CL final from the penalty spot.

How Barcelona lost that tie is beyond me. Literally had so many chances to finish the game off. I think it was inevitable Chelsea won it. They had so much luck against Bayern as well.

Ion Creanga wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:and why in his right mind should he go for the "hard" option lmao

Are you kidding?
because of the challenge maybe?

why does Diego Simeone still coach Atletico? Why did Totti spent his entire career at Roma?

Money and glory is not the purpose in life for some people, believe it or not.

Have you never solved a difficult problem or passed a hard challenge where odds were against you, and through your own habits, hard work, and ideas you did it? That's winning in life.

That's more valuable for me, than money or accomplishing something in an easy enviromnment, when odds are with you.

I'm not blaming Guardiola for taking the easier path now, the guy has accomplished so much in his life through his hard work and competence, he deserves the right to chose whatever suits him best. It's not like he landed in this situation by luck.

When you (or anyone here who spoke of challenge) get the chance to pass on 20+ million euros a year for 3 years , get to talk about taking challenges then . Frankly , for anybody who's achieved 2 shits in his life , to even get there you've surpassed any challenge you can possibly imagine . Not arbitrary romantic challenges , the actual ones. Like lose hair from the stress it takes , just to please stupid random people that praise you today and shit on you tomorrow . Probably the very least one , that .

But it takes one to see one , as they say . Frankly , had he stayed at Barcelona , and he could have till today even , people would have said " see only at Barcelona , still to prove himself elsewhere" . Pep leaves his home , his assurances , his country , the place he was a god almost , his brilliant team which was anything he ever wanted in coaching , with the best player in the world , all that behind , and on to new things. If that doesn't take massive balls , i don't know what is. Joins Bayern , does what he does. People again call him a coward or takes the easy way always. Again no challenge with City... but had he stayed at Bayern ?  "winning the bundesfodder by default kek , bigger challenge on the playstation"..  and this will probably repeat itself in 3 years from now when he will be leaving City .

So , other than that. What you value more than money .. well it's certainly not that kind of money , is it ? Who even gets paid 20m+ a year to tell people how to kick a ball?? If that's not winning in life , i don't know what the fk is , rest of us may as well just kill ourselves (:

And money and glory do come when you do the things you describe to the levels Guardiola has achieved . You say he's earning it , and if that's the case , then that's only because he has a real purpose . Money and glory come hand in hand when you succeed in any case. And when it's that much , you know you're worth your salt regardless of what outsiders say , wouldn't you agree? Apparently some don't .

And Totti stayed at Roma because he loved Roma , not because of a challenge. Still earned great money and glory , still was in a top club , still won stuff. Just like Wenger stayed at Arsenal because he loved Arsenal and not because of any challenge and repeat same as Totti(and Wenger is from another time , today a dying breed , exception to the rule basically). Del Piero stayed with Juventus in Serie B because he loved Juventus. Not because it was any challenge and repeat same as with Totti and Wenger. Still the same for many many others.

They aren't doing it for any arbitrary challenge. They are doing it because they love their teams too much . That's not the canon , but the exception to the rule in a sport ruled by professionalism . Pep still loved and he still does love Barcelona like no other , he did a similar thing as a player after all. Thing is he is a coach now , different thing and felt he had to leave for his own reasons , choose to believe them or not , up to you. Challenge had nothing to do with it . 99.9% can't even deal with Guardiola's challenges , let alone define what is one for him.

People saying Barca were bound to win because they had best players of generation forget that Pep provided the canvas on which these artists drew GOAT paintings. Barca would have won no doubt with the amazing players we had but would we have shown same charisma and flair while dominating the world football for 4 years without him?

Danyjr why did you type your messages up? You should handwrite your posts and individually mail them to every poster in this thread. To prove that you can (:

CBarca wrote:

Onyx wrote:

CBarca wrote:It's a while back now but I don't understand why people think Sterling won't enjoy Pep's system? If he buys into Pep (which he probably will, especially considering Pep's work with other young players), then I think he'll be with the perfect manager for him. I understand the criticism here is that Sterling lacks a solid footballing brain and isn't technically gifted, but neither is Pedro, and he had the time of his career with Pep. David Villa was certainly technically gifted but most of his work was off the ball--something Sterling can emulate (the same, of course, goes for Pedro).

If Pep can get what he did out of Pedro, he can surely do the same with Sterling, who is a far, far more talented player. He's still very young and has a lot of growing to do yet, and I think having a manager like Pep around will be perfect for Sterling's development.

Pedro was a goalscorer though unlike Sterling.

So if Sterling's not going to score, he's going to need to round up his overall ability imo. I can see him playing a sort of Douglas Costa esque role however.

Pedro was a nobody before Pep. Things can change. Pedro is no longer a goalscorer

Sterling offers ability (or at least potential ability) that Pedro never had beyond goalscoring, and one can usually become a better goalscorer. He needs to work on it, but he's still like, 20. He'll get there. He managed to get goals before too, so it's not like he can't.

He offers the potential ability, but he doesn't have it yet, which is a problem when a coach wants his system to work as quick as possible. Pedro was a nobody, so it was easier to mould him into a goalscoring role. Sterling's style is pretty much established so turning him into something more complete might take more work. Some wingers just aren't goalscorers and that's perfectly fine, he can still do a job for the team like Costa.

Dante, you do realize you are scoulding children!

Tomwin Lannister wrote:[ it's a miracle I don't weigh 600 pounds and live in my mums basement.

You coming at me mate?

Harmonica wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Harmonica wrote:
But no major titles, the same can be said about 12-13, if Messi didn't get injured and Bayern gifted those 2 extra goals, Barca would've won CL also.

You are kidding about right? We lost on a 7-0 aggregate and even if any referee deceision had gone our way, we would have lost. In 11-12 we just needed the ref to give correct decisions and we would have made it.

And it's not only about winning, but about the level showed and how we played, and barça under Pep was the best team for 4 years, and we didn't get that dominance again until last season. Not under Tito although we were close in the league but underwhelming in the Cups, and definitely not under Martino when we started on par with Tito but ended garbage.

If anyone can win anything with Pep's squad from 08-12, anyone can win with Barça squad from 12-14, and we won one title and were far from being the best in Europe.

Why would I be kidding? Messi got injured, played injured and Bayern scored 2 legit goals in their home. You don't see 2-0 changing at all with fit Messi?

That's because the dominant Barca was growing old and stale, Messi was carrying not dominant Barca 11-13, in the middle Guardiola bailing the ship. It's easily shown in the statistics.

So, let me get your theory out open: you are saying that if Messi is fit, it doesn't matter who's the coach, Barça will win most titles, right?

Then explain Tata Martino season...? Messi suffered injuries but he wasn't injured in the decisive part of the season.

free_cat wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

free_cat wrote:


You are kidding about right? We lost on a 7-0 aggregate and even if any referee deceision had gone our way, we would have lost. In 11-12 we just needed the ref to give correct decisions and we would have made it.

And it's not only about winning, but about the level showed and how we played, and barça under Pep was the best team for 4 years, and we didn't get that dominance again until last season. Not under Tito although we were close in the league but underwhelming in the Cups, and definitely not under Martino when we started on par with Tito but ended garbage.

If anyone can win anything with Pep's squad from 08-12, anyone can win with Barça squad from 12-14, and we won one title and were far from being the best in Europe.

Why would I be kidding? Messi got injured, played injured and Bayern scored 2 legit goals in their home. You don't see 2-0 changing at all with fit Messi?

That's because the dominant Barca was growing old and stale, Messi was carrying not dominant Barca 11-13, in the middle Guardiola bailing the ship. It's easily shown in the statistics.

So, let me get your theory out open: you are saying that if Messi is fit, it doesn't matter who's the coach, Barça will win most titles, right?

Then explain Tata Martino season...? Messi suffered injuries but he wasn't injured in the decisive part of the season.

I just gave the exact same analogy of "what if".

Barca lost the 13-14 league with onside Messi goal wrongfully called offside.

Pirloisjesus wrote:

Tomwin Lannister wrote:[ it's a miracle I don't weigh 600 pounds and live in my mums basement.

You coming at me mate?

Pls brah you're barely pushing 500 pounds need to get some food down you mang

Harmonica wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Harmonica wrote:
Why would I be kidding? Messi got injured, played injured and Bayern scored 2 legit goals in their home. You don't see 2-0 changing at all with fit Messi?

That's because the dominant Barca was growing old and stale, Messi was carrying not dominant Barca 11-13, in the middle Guardiola bailing the ship. It's easily shown in the statistics.

So, let me get your theory out open: you are saying that if Messi is fit, it doesn't matter who's the coach, Barça will win most titles, right?

Then explain Tata Martino season...? Messi suffered injuries but he wasn't injured in the decisive part of the season.

I just gave the exact same analogy of "what if".

Barca lost the 13-14 league with onside Messi goal wrongfully called offside.

Theory of "what if" doesn't work when it's a 7-0 aggreggate.

Again, it's not only about results, but we were the best under Pep. Had we won anything under Martino, we would have fluked it. That goal was legit, but I'm pretty sure Atletico would have tied anyway. When we scored, they started playing and tied in 10 min.