Re: Barca wages - or how much does Messi earn?

by The Demon of Carthage Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:24 pm

Cruijf wrote:That begs the question though, why are Bayern players happy with such low wages?

The question you should be asking is how did Bayern manage to sign and renew those players without shelling out a warchest? Cause those players would be more than happy to get as much as they would've gotten had they signed for Real Madrid or Barça. So what's the secret? Well it can merely be boiled down to three factors:

1. Marketability of the player when he signed.
2. Talent of the player when he signed.
3. How much in demand is he.

Bayern, in case you didn't notice, has never locked horns with Barça or Madrid to sign a galactico. Instead, they either develop their players in their own academy or sign a talented young player before anybody else notices them. Real Madrid and Barça, to a lesser extent, are generally less forgiving and impatient. They want established elites and they have to offer more than their arch rival to lure the player away.

Let's say you are a rising starlet playing at a relatively small club, and you hear that there's one big club coming for you. One. You certainly would take their offer no matter how low it is and without even blinking, wouldn't you?

Now imagine you're a rising starlet playing at a relatively small club and you hear there's Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munchen coming for you. You certainly would take your time and weigh your options - here, whoever offers the fattest payheck usually gets the player.

In that regard, Bayern are different. There's a reason they never went north of 40m to sign a player. And there's a reason they never battled Europe's heavyweights to get the signature of an established elite. They would rather take their chances with their own players and those they buy from smaller clubs before the fame gets to them. And of course those players will stay happy and renew as long as there's nobody else offering more.

by Valkyrja Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:27 pm

Benzema-Higuain comparasion holds a special place in the heart of GL members. It sure as hell is worth more than a thread about Mehssi's irrelevant wages

by Kaladin Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:28 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
ES wrote:How is this 7 pages

why is a discusiion about wages less worthy of 7 pages than whether Higuain is now better than Benzema?

Talking about wage structures and salaries of top stars is a good discussion to have.

Topic title wrote:Barca wages - or how much does Messi earn?

by Hapless_Hans Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:26 pm

I didn't make the thread, and neither the title

by Lucifer Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:00 pm

One of the most informative thread of recent times I must say :bow:

Take that " Criminal life of Benzema " :coffee:

by S Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:23 pm

Regarding Bayern wages' players being 'lower',as touched upon in this thread,its probably more to do with money they earn from image rights.

Besides none have the pull of a Cristiano or a Messi who are just big brands in the game right now who can easily sell a variety of products with their image.

And the highest paid players at Bayern are at €7m NET which exceeds over £200K a week gross in English football terms.How many players in the league earn over £200K in PL ?
Lets stop pretending like Bayern players earn poverty wages.

by Hapless_Hans Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:25 am

S wrote:
And the highest paid players at Bayern are at €7m NET which exceeds over £200K a week gross in English football terms.How many players in the league earn over £200K in PL ?
Lets stop pretending like Bayern players earn poverty wages.

at 7m net are maybe Lahm and Ribéry, maybe Müller is getting close after his recent renewal.

In the PL, I'd assume the likes of Aguero, Rooney, Silva, De Gea, De Bruyne, Yaya, Fabregas, Hazard, Schweinsteiger, probably Mata, earn more, some considerably more.

by S Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:36 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:
S wrote:
And the highest paid players at Bayern are at €7m NET which exceeds over £200K a week gross in English football terms.How many players in the league earn over £200K in PL ?
Lets stop pretending like Bayern players earn poverty wages.

at 7m net are maybe Lahm and Ribéry, maybe Müller is getting close after his recent renewal.

In the PL, I'd assume the likes of Aguero, Rooney, Silva, De Gea, De Bruyne, Yaya, Fabregas, Hazard, Schweinsteiger, probably Mata, earn more, some considerably more.

Aguero-£225K a week
Yaya-£240K a week
Silva-£200K a week
Hazard-£200K a week
Fabregas-£200K a week

The only guy that is at a considerably higher salary at £300K a week is Rooney.

£200k a week assuming tax rate at 50% is roughly €6.5m NET annually.

So basically only a select group of players earn a higher salary than Bayern players in the EPL.

by Hapless_Hans Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:42 am

Yes. Which is what I said too. But why should it be different?
Bayern's top players get what other top players get, apart from a handful of superstars.

Still, we don't pay superstar wages although we are a top 3 club.
And Müller would be able to get more money if he moved to Man Utd. He'd get Rooney money instead of Silva money.

by El Messico Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:40 am

Cruijf wrote:Are you seriously disputing that Thiago would walk into your team? Even if you are (which would be ridiculous), he could easily go to team like Man Utd, City, Chelsea, etc. and double his wages.

Thiago is nowhere close to the Barca starting midfield. Who is he going to displace? Iniesta or Busquets are out of the question. Only someone on Xavi's level can displace Rakitic. Any other inferior technical player without defensive capabilities (i.e Thiago) is neither good enough to make tiki-taka work nor has the energy or work-rate to provide balance to a midfield in a more counter-attacking team. This is not 2012 Barcelona where Pedro and Alexis are auxiliary fullbacks. MSN like full freedom which necessitates a slightly more workman-like midfield.

Verratti or Gundogan could work, because they are much better defensively than Thiago.

by free_cat Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:12 am

S wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
S wrote:
And the highest paid players at Bayern are at €7m NET which exceeds over £200K a week gross in English football terms.How many players in the league earn over £200K in PL ?
Lets stop pretending like Bayern players earn poverty wages.

at 7m net are maybe Lahm and Ribéry, maybe Müller is getting close after his recent renewal.

In the PL, I'd assume the likes of Aguero, Rooney, Silva, De Gea, De Bruyne, Yaya, Fabregas, Hazard, Schweinsteiger, probably Mata, earn more, some considerably more.

Aguero-£225K a week
Yaya-£240K a week
Silva-£200K a week
Hazard-£200K a week
Fabregas-£200K a week

The only guy that is at a considerably higher salary at £300K a week is Rooney.

£200k a week assuming tax rate at 50% is roughly €6.5m NET annually.

So basically only a select group of players earn a higher salary than Bayern players in the EPL.

Another example on why it's impossible Messi is earning around 50 milion Gross per season, which would be 1.000.000€/week, which is 3-4 times the top earners of the richest league in the world, and with at least 2-3 clubs that are on par with Barça in spending power.

by free_cat Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:44 am

El Messico wrote:
Cruijf wrote:Are you seriously disputing that Thiago would walk into your team? Even if you are (which would be ridiculous), he could easily go to team like Man Utd, City, Chelsea, etc. and double his wages.

Thiago is nowhere close to the Barca starting midfield. Who is he going to displace? Iniesta or Busquets are out of the question. Only someone on Xavi's level can displace Rakitic. Any other inferior technical player without defensive capabilities (i.e Thiago) is neither good enough to make tiki-taka work nor has the energy or work-rate to provide balance to a midfield in a more counter-attacking team. This is not 2012 Barcelona where Pedro and Alexis are auxiliary fullbacks. MSN like full freedom which necessitates a slightly more workman-like midfield.

Verratti or Gundogan could work, because they are much better defensively than Thiago.

What are you on, Thiago is very good defensively and superb technically. His only problem is his turnovers.

by S Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:34 am

free_cat wrote:
S wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:

at 7m net are maybe Lahm and Ribéry, maybe Müller is getting close after his recent renewal.

In the PL, I'd assume the likes of Aguero, Rooney, Silva, De Gea, De Bruyne, Yaya, Fabregas, Hazard, Schweinsteiger, probably Mata, earn more, some considerably more.

Aguero-£225K a week
Yaya-£240K a week
Silva-£200K a week
Hazard-£200K a week
Fabregas-£200K a week

The only guy that is at a considerably higher salary at £300K a week is Rooney.

£200k a week assuming tax rate at 50% is roughly €6.5m NET annually.

So basically only a select group of players earn a higher salary than Bayern players in the EPL.

Another example on why it's impossible Messi is earning around 50 milion Gross per season, which would be 1.000.000€/week, which is 3-4 times the top earners of the richest league in the world, and with at least 2-3 clubs that are on par with Barça in spending power.

No its not impossible because he's simply much more popular and much more marketable than anyone in the EPL.
Like explained by Art,part of his salary includes image rights payments so he could be earning a lot of money from that.

I still dint get the answer for my question though and that is why is Barca close to exceeding the FFP limit if they're paying their players less than the perceived notion ?

by free_cat Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:58 am

S wrote:
free_cat wrote:
S wrote:

Aguero-£225K a week
Yaya-£240K a week
Silva-£200K a week
Hazard-£200K a week
Fabregas-£200K a week

The only guy that is at a considerably higher salary at £300K a week is Rooney.

£200k a week assuming tax rate at 50% is roughly €6.5m NET annually.

So basically only a select group of players earn a higher salary than Bayern players in the EPL.

Another example on why it's impossible Messi is earning around 50 milion Gross per season, which would be 1.000.000€/week, which is 3-4 times the top earners of the richest league in the world, and with at least 2-3 clubs that are on par with Barça in spending power.

No its not impossible because he's simply much more popular and much more marketable than anyone in the EPL.
Like explained by Art,part of his salary includes image rights payments so he could be earning a lot of money from that.

I still dint get the answer for my question though and that is why is Barca close to exceeding the FFP limit if they're paying their players less than the perceived notion ?

The thing is that what Messi earns with his image has nothing to do with Barça. Barça has all his player's collective image (that is if at least 3-4 more Barça players appear in the AD) authomatically when they sign a labor agreement. At most an extra 15% in relation to their gross salary can be paid for the image of the player (and this 15% is the ammoun the revenue confronted and allowed to know Messi's gross salary with Barça).

It's not possible for Messi to have 3-4 times the salary of the top players in the premier league. That would blow up the salary scale and with players like Iniesta, Suarez and Neymar we would be paying much more than the current 138 milion + bonuses + others.

If Barça is exceeding the FFP limit, which I don't think it does because according to Barça's accounts the wages don't surpass 60%, it is because they pay a lot of wages for our top class players, but this doesn't mean that Messi is earning 50 milion gross.

by Art Morte Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:35 pm

Catsy wrote:The thing is that what Messi earns with his image has nothing to do with Barça.

No, this is not correct. Barcelona pay Messi for his image rights. I'd say it's probably over 20m a year, too, could be over 30m. On top of that there's his weekly wages.

by S Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:51 pm

Yeah and there's usually a 50-50 split between player and club in terms of image rights payments.
So Barca get to keep half of the money they make off his image and pay the rest in the form of wages to Messi i suppose.
As far as ownership goes,i think it is solely down to the player or an image rights company to which the player has sold it to.Clubs dont own it.
Cristiano for example has sold his rights to an image rights company based in Hong Kong who own all of his rights now.

There are only three players in the world who have a salary higher than 15m net and that's Messi,Cristiano and Ibra and there's ofcourse a common theme in these three and that is they are very marketable and can sell products easily.

The earnings they get from commercials is a separate thing in my view.

by free_cat Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Art Morte wrote:
Catsy wrote:The thing is that what Messi earns with his image has nothing to do with Barça.
No, this is not correct. Barcelona pay Messi for his image rights. I'd say it's probably over 20m a year, too, could be over 30m. On top of that there's his weekly wages.

Barça pays to Messi in image rights 15% of his gross salary, including the image rights in it. No more, no less. As established by spanish law.

by free_cat Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:17 pm

S wrote:Yeah and there's usually a 50-50 split between player and club in terms of image rights payments.
So Barca get to keep half of the money they make off his image and pay the rest in the form of wages to Messi i suppose.
As far as ownership goes,i think it is solely down to the player or an image rights company to which the player has sold it to.Clubs dont own it.
Cristiano for example has sold his rights to an image rights company based in Hong Kong who own all of his rights now.

There are only three players in the world who have a salary higher than 15m net and that's Messi,Cristiano and Ibra and there's ofcourse a common theme in these three and that is they are very marketable and can sell products easily.

The earnings they get from commercials is a separate thing in my view.

Madrid does that (or used to) with some players, Barça doesn't. In actuality though, it's the opposite, Madrid EARNS money from the player's image, not the other way around. As Madrid earned money, new players are refusing this system, Ronaldo in his renovations already clashed with Madrid about it.

by Art Morte Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:28 pm

free_cat wrote:
Art Morte wrote:
Catsy wrote:The thing is that what Messi earns with his image has nothing to do with Barça.
No, this is not correct. Barcelona pay Messi for his image rights. I'd say it's probably over 20m a year, too, could be over 30m. On top of that there's his weekly wages.

Barça pays to Messi in image rights 15% of his gross salary, including the image rights in it. No more, no less. As established by spanish law.

Sorry, but this isn't true. Players in Spain are allowed to receive 15% of their image rights payments to their "image rights companies", meaning they can pay a corporate tax (lower) on 15% of their image rights income, and a personal tax (higher) on 85% of their image rights income. The 15% does not mean that there is a law that a player's image rights income paid by their club is 15% of their gross salary.

by free_cat Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:43 pm

Art Morte wrote:
free_cat wrote:
Art Morte wrote: No, this is not correct. Barcelona pay Messi for his image rights. I'd say it's probably over 20m a year, too, could be over 30m. On top of that there's his weekly wages.

Barça pays to Messi in image rights 15% of his gross salary, including the image rights in it. No more, no less. As established by spanish law.
Sorry, but this isn't true. Players in Spain are allowed to receive 15% of their image rights payments to their "image rights companies", meaning they can pay a corporate tax (lower) on 15% of their image rights income, and a personal tax (higher) on 85% of their image rights income. The 15% does not mean that there is a law that a player's image rights income paid by their club is 15% of their gross salary.

Yes, it's like this, but the thing is that no player earns more than that 15% because as per labour agreement the Club's already own the collective image. I see you are willing to check things, you can also check this one and you'll see it's like this. They can separate the image and use that 15% to make it tax effective. Nowadays they are starting not to use this 15% safe harbour because the revenue is reviewing it and from this arises almost all the tax cases from footabllers.

by Art Morte Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:49 pm

I still don't understand what you mean by that 15%.
Messi's image rights income = 15% of his "normal" gross wages?

by free_cat Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:53 am

Art Morte wrote:I still don't understand what you mean by that 15%.
Messi's image rights income = 15% of his "normal" gross wages?

The amount Clubs pay to player's companies for the player's image rights is a maximum of the 15% of the players Gross salary with the Club + the image rights. (So 85% is gross salary, 15% is image payments to a company).

If the Club or the Player decide they don't want use a company for the image payments, the whole amount will be set as a salary, as there is no reason to pay directly to the player in image payment. This is because the tax treatment of image payments to the player and salary is the same but salary has a bigger legal protection, so the player will always prefer those payments to be labelled as salary.

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